Is the Macbook Air worth paying 4 times the price of this?

[MH01]

Back on the days when apple used powerpc yeah you could argue about components etc.

These days the guts are all the same. They are all PCs inside. Apple does not use better components.

Take the new MacBook Pros, The design yes, best in the industry, but with that comes a catch, that thinniess and style is resulting in them overheating. The inside of them is no better then a PC, actually using hte Nvidia guts is proving to be a failure as people are constantly experienceing shutdowns, the firewire controller is crappy to be honest. If you jump into the MBP forums u will see how many issues people are having with them. At the end its the best looking 15" laptop.

The MBA, you have the thinnest portable on the market, and the most sexy by far, that is what you are paying, you are paying to show off Apples flagship of design. When you but a Ferrari, are its components 10X better then a BMW.....nope, you paying for hte name and sytle/design. This is where apple sits on the Computer world.

The biggest difference is OS X. Everyone seems to overlook this and compare hardware. The hardware is no diff, the design is, and only Apples run OS X.

Look at univerisities, your average student does not need an apple, but those that do feel so much cooler then the ones that do not. Its about image, every kid wants to be the coolest. No a single university course requires a Apple or a Laptop....the kid with the AIR is Bling bling cool.....same goes for the real world. Heck I got one, yup my Sony has more features, but i love my AIR, and yeah i feel smug at times when i take it out Same if i rocked up to a cafe in a ferrari instead of my subaru.

 

[macbook123]

Look at univerisities, your average student does not need an apple, but those that do feel so much cooler then the ones that do not. Its about image, every kid wants to be the coolest. No a single university course requires a Apple or a Laptop....the kid with the AIR is Bling bling cool.....same goes for the real world. Heck I got one, yup my Sony has more features, but i love my AIR, and yeah i feel smug at times when i take it out Same if i rocked up to a cafe in a ferrari instead of my subaru.

Just a random note: I think a Subaru is way cooler than a Ferrari. I mean, you can get to so many more places with it, and I'm also pretty sure you attract more intelligent people driving around in one. In this country you can't even drive near the max speed of the Ferrari. I think though that the comparison of the Air with a Ferrari is a little off. Not sure. Would be great if Apple can maintain both standards, to be leading in terms of technology and style. Judging from the disagreement of people on this thread I guess they're close but perhaps not quite there with the Air. Anyway, I'm buying one in part because of the OS, but would probably go with a Sony if it were just the hardware that mattered (mainly the fact that it has a higher resolution screen without shady lines).

 

[The Toddfather]

Just a random note: I think a Subaru is way cooler than a Ferrari...

Great point, exactly why this is a silly discussion. People buy based on need and preference, if you like the Air and can afford it, you buy it. If not, don't, but to debate on and on about what makes a person buy one computer over another is a waste of time.

 

[macbook123]

Great point, exactly why this is a silly discussion. People buy based on need and preference, if you like the Air and can afford it, you buy it. If not, don't, but to debate on and on about what makes a person buy one computer over another is a waste of time.

I disagree. The debate is around whether the Air's hardware is worth the price when competing with other laptops in terms of overall performance. A Ferrari is made in much smaller quantities relative to Subaru's, and that (next to bigger engine, better brakes, more leather inside, etc) is a main reason why it's more expensive and why the comparison is flawed.

People seem to be interested in debating here, so why not allow them to?

 

[The Toddfather]

I disagree. The debate is around whether the Air's hardware is worth the price when competing with other laptops in terms of overall performance.

So I think it is and you don't. What's your point?

 

[macbook123]

So I think it is and you don't. What's your point?

I never said I don't. I just thought it was worthwhile discussing, starting from the very large price difference with the Asus. As Kam-O-Z and others have described in detail, the Air is at least comparable in terms of many specs to Toshiba, Sony, Lenovo, etc, so it's actually a meaningful thing to look into details of the comparison and people seem to be interested in taking part in it and disagree in some ways. There you go, you have a conversation between people, and I just don't think you're going to reach anything dismissing the conversation as silly. Of course you can call it whatever you want, but I respectfully disagreed with your comparison with the Ferrari. That's all.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

Who cares about thinness? The Toshiba is lighter.

You can't have gigabit ethernet with that dongle, which is a necessity for network backups. That's the whole point.

The Air is a fashion object, not a practical computer.

Well some people care about thinness. With it being so thin, you can slip it into almost anything. If it's thin enough, you may not need a laptop bag anymore. Perhaps it can just slip into another bag you have. Women may particularly enjoy being able to slip it into purse

So please don't discount thickness. It may not matter to you but it sure does matter to some people.

Again the Air isn't meant for those types of people who absolutely need gigabit backup speeds. For that to even happen, you have to have a lot of pieces in place on your network anyways. Some routers that are older than a year can't even handle gigabit. No average person is doing gigabit backups. Wireless N is quite fast (anywhere from 250 - 500 megabit and USB is 480 megabit). Sure if this is a big deal for you, look elsewhere.

I mean think about the average iMac or Macbook Pro owner. Most are using wireless, not a hardwired ethernet.

Again this is about keeping features that are used often and dropping the ones that are rarely used.

Kan-O-Z

 

[Kan-O-Z]

The Toshiba is .7 to 1.0 inches thick. Not a big difference I would say. Plus why does thickness matter but footprint doesn't? is one dimension more important than the others?

Did you know Apple's largest notebook, the Macbook Pro 17" is ONLY 1" thick....which would be the same as the Toshiba? So according to your logic, the thickness between the Macbook Air and the Macbook Pro is insignificant. We all know that's not the case

Some would argue that thickness is more important than footprint. A thin laptop can be slipped into any bag easily. Bigger footprint allows for a real screen and keyboard.

This same logic applies to my iPhone. It's very thin and I can slip it into my pant pocket without making a bulge in my pants...all the while have a nice large screen. I really would not want a phone that's got a smaller footprint but is 1" thick because that would just not fit into my pocket...at least not easily and it might looking like something is going on in my pants And it would have an unusable screen being so small.

Kan-O-Z

 

[jaytv111]

I would say that once you get around to 1 inch thickness, its thickness won't really matter. Plus the Macbook Pro 17 inch has a huge footprint compared to the Air, and it's waay heavier. Thickness doesn't really matter to me once it's 1 inch thick or less.

The thing with bags is that you're still going to need a laptop bag. I don't think any purse could accommodate a 13 inch laptop. It's kind of impractical. Also I'd be fine with an 11 or 12 inch laptop. As far as I'm concerned they have a "real" screen and keyboard.

This doesn't apply to the Iphone. First off, the iphone isn't a laptop. Second, since it's a touchscreen, it requires a larger screen to be usable. Also, the iphone is perfect in every dimension. lol

Also, what about the overheating issues? I think a laptop is pretty useless if you can't use it for more than 5 minutes without it overheating.

People are trying to argue that the Air can do heavy duty things like Photoshop and CAD, whereas the netbook can't. Do people really do Photoshop or CAD on the Macbook Air? Or anything heavy duty? If you use if for email and web browsing or productivity apps, then I'd say any netbook could do just as well.

Did you know Apple's largest notebook, the Macbook Pro 17" is ONLY 1" thick....which would be the same as the Toshiba? So according to your logic, the thickness between the Macbook Air and the Macbook Pro is insignificant. We all know that's not the case

Some would argue that thickness is more important than footprint. A thin laptop can be slipped into any bag easily. Bigger footprint allows for a real screen and keyboard.

This same logic applies to my iPhone. It's very thin and I can slip it into my pant pocket without making a bulge in my pants...all the while have a nice large screen. I really would not want a phone that's got a smaller footprint but is 1" thick because that would just not fit into my pocket...at least not easily and it might looking like something is going on in my pants And it would have an unusable screen being so small.

Kan-O-Z

 

[Kan-O-Z]

Also, what about the overheating issues? I think a laptop is pretty useless if you can't use it for more than 5 minutes without it overheating.

Have you tried out an Air or are you reading some posts from people who owned a problematic Rev A? Heat is not enough of an issue to make the Rev B useless.

People are trying to argue that the Air can do heavy duty things like Photoshop and CAD, whereas the netbook can't. Do people really do Photoshop or CAD on the Macbook Air? Or anything heavy duty? If you use if for email and web browsing or productivity apps, then I'd say any netbook could do just as well.

Well some people want to use their computer for a little more than email or surfing the web. If that's all I want to do, my iphone can even do that....and it sure beats a netbook in size and price

Think of the Macbook Air as the equivalent of the low-end Macbook (which is quite capable). People who are not power users could potentially make the Macbook Air their only notebook/computer. Yes you can bring up iphoto, photoshop, etc on the macbook and it runs pretty well. And since it has a 13" screen, it is actually usable for more than checking email. Using one of those small 9"-10" netbook screens and mini keyboards for hours on end per day, you will want to chuck that netbook at the end of the day.

A netbook can only be a second or perhaps your third computer used just to occasionally surf the web and check email....where as the Air could be your primary and only computer. That's the difference...and it's a big one.

So to answer your question, I think people view the Macbook Air as a thin version of a Macbook...which is exactly what it is...imagine that

Kan-O-Z

 

[jaytv111]

Have you tried out an Air or are you reading some posts from people who owned a problematic Rev A? Heat is not enough of an issue to make the Rev B useless.

Reading Engadget and posts here, that is the conclusion I drew about the Rev A. It does look like the Rev B is better though. I've spent about ten minutes with an Air at an Apple Store. I'm not too impressed overall.

Well some people want to use their computer for a little more than email or surfing the web. If that's all I want to do, my iphone can even do that....and it sure beats a netbook in size and price

Yeah but the Iphone doesn't even have a keyboard. At least the netbooks have a keyboard and 7-10 inch screen.

Think of the Macbook Air as the equivalent of the low-end Macbook (which is quite capable). People who are not power users could potentially make the Macbook Air their only notebook/computer. Yes you can bring up iphoto, photoshop, etc on the macbook and it runs pretty well. And since it has a 13" screen, it is actually usable for more than checking email. Using one of those small 9"-10" netbook screens and mini keyboards for hours on end per day, you will want to chuck that netbook at the end of the day.

A netbook can only be a second or perhaps your third computer used just to occasionally surf the web and check email....where as the Air could be your primary and only computer. That's the difference...and it's a big one.

So to answer your question, I think people view the Macbook Air as a thin version of a Macbook...which is exactly what it is...imagine that

Kan-O-Z

You didn't answer my question. Do you really use the Air for Photoshop or CAD or anything heavy duty? The question is not can you do it. It is, would you really want to.

I would get the Macbook of the two. More features/performance for a better price.

I think the comparison to the netbooks still stands. It seems that if you just do simple tasks like email or web browsing, then a netbook is just as good.

Also the non removable battery is a HUGE dealbreaker for me. I would never get a laptop like that.

 

[Doju]

I use Photoshop on my MBA tons, I have it idling now as a matter of fact. And I've never ever even removed my battery from any laptop, so I can't call that crucial either.

And are you serious? If I only need to check my e-mail, do light browsing and word processing, would I want a netbook with a horrid OS, cramped keyboard, slower processor, thicker, smaller screen and uglier, or a beautiful, fast (for those tasks it does MORE than needed) MacBook Air with a full sized keyboard and screen.

Hey, it costs more, but premium has a cost.

 

[jaytv111]

I use Photoshop on my MBA tons, I have it idling now as a matter of fact. And I've never ever even removed my battery from any laptop, so I can't call that crucial either.

Ok. I am glad someone answered my question. Being able to change my battery is essential for me though. I assume many people are the same way.

And are you serious? If I only need to check my e-mail, do light browsing and word processing, would I want a netbook with a horrid OS, cramped keyboard, slower processor, thicker, smaller screen and uglier, or a beautiful, fast (for those tasks it does MORE than needed) MacBook Air with a full sized keyboard and screen.

Hey, it costs more, but premium has a cost.

Yes I'm serious. Horrid OS? I've used XP for years and it's been rock solid. You could alternatively get linux as well. Cramped keyboard? Depends, read some reviews of different netbook models before making assumptions. Slower processor is true, but again web browsing and email won't require any more. Thicker, uglier, yes. But I probably woudn't care since netbooks are usually cheap.

By the way, anyone heard of the Sony X505? it was thin like the Air, and it was quite similar. It's not hard to cut out features to make a thin computer, anyone could do it. I'll only get an Air when it has 3G, a removable battery, and 2 USB ports.

 

[Doju]

See, that's why it's only for select people. I rarely ever use USB ports, don't need to take out my battery, and there's no 3G in my area.

But I hear you.

But in regards to things like an optical drive, in something like an Air, that space is very valuable. Even if they offered an optical drive, it would hinder the speed I'd reckon. They're packed to the brim as-is, they couldn't fit an optical drive without damage.

 

[jaytv111]

See, that's why it's only for select people. I rarely ever use USB ports, don't need to take out my battery, and there's no 3G in my area.

But I hear you.

But in regards to things like an optical drive, in something like an Air, that space is very valuable. Even if they offered an optical drive, it would hinder the speed I'd reckon. They're packed to the brim as-is, they couldn't fit an optical drive without damage.

Well, I don't care about optical drives either. But I still prefer the Macbook over the Air for the better performance and price.

 

[andyOSX]

Slower processor is true, but again web browsing and email won't require any more. Thicker, uglier, yes. But I probably woudn't care since netbooks are usually cheap.

Hope you don't plan on watching very many flash videos or having 10+ tabs open at once.

 

[jaytv111]

Hope you don't plan on watching very many flash videos or having 10+ tabs open at once.

I'm not in the market

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

MBA has bigger/better battery.
MagSafe adapter
OS X
Aesthetically better
Multi touch
Not a weakling cpu or gpu
Better screen
Bigger trackpad, thinner
Backlit keyboard

The list goes on and on

The EEE is a pile of junk. I bought one (forget which model) and the experience was so bad. It had the power of a baby toy. It was cheaply built and the keyboard was "smushed in" for some keys. Basically, the keys were broken. The trackpad's paint wore off in a day or two. And the button fell off. Oh yea, the webcam was like if you poured cream into a cup of coffee, it was very blurry. And the rubber feet for the LCD fell off too... Needless to say, it went back to the store (Fry's) and I bought a Lenovo S10.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

You didn't answer my question. Do you really use the Air for Photoshop or CAD or anything heavy duty? The question is not can you do it. It is, would you really want to.

I would get the Macbook of the two. More features/performance for a better price.

I think the comparison to the netbooks still stands. It seems that if you just do simple tasks like email or web browsing, then a netbook is just as good.

Also the non removable battery is a HUGE dealbreaker for me. I would never get a laptop like that.

The Air is not for you but it is for some people. Some people want the extra power, extra screen and extra keyboard as opposed to a Netbook. If you use your portable a lot, this makes a big difference. Small screens means a lot of scrolling and viewing only one application at once.
On a netbook I think XP would run painfully slow. I think the only thing you could really run on a netbook would be some form of streamlined linux which is not for a lot of people. I think a netbook would start to choke if you watch youtube videos while having word docs open, pdf docs open and multiple web pages open and iTunes and a photo browser/editor program open.

Once again if you want a real computer experience that can handle more than email and web in practically a netbook sized package, that's what the Macbook Air is about.

Personally I think the Macbook Air is amazing. It's yesterdays last years low end iMac in a netbook size It's very capable for it's size, actually it's deceivingly capable. By the way it can actually play some games as that nVidia 9400 is decent!

Kan-O-Z

 

[jaytv111]

The Air is not for you but it is for some people. Some people want the extra power, extra screen and extra keyboard as opposed to a Netbook. If you use your portable a lot, this makes a big difference. Small screens means a lot of scrolling and viewing only one application at once.
On a netbook I think XP would run painfully slow.

And you would be wrong. XP runs fine on most netbooks. Check a couple reviews first before making assumptions.

I think the only thing you could really run on a netbook would be some form of streamlined linux which is not for a lot of people. I think a netbook would start to choke if you watch youtube videos while having word docs open, pdf docs open and multiple web pages open and iTunes and a photo browser/editor program open.

Once again if you want a real computer experience that can handle more than email and web in practically a netbook sized package, that's what the Macbook Air is about.

Personally I think the Macbook Air is amazing. It's yesterdays last years low end iMac in a netbook size It's very capable for it's size, actually it's deceivingly capable. By the way it can actually play some games as that nVidia 9400 is decent!

Kan-O-Z

Meh, it's not that amazing. link
It'd be amazing if they crammed in more features like 3G and a second USB port in the same size.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

And you would be wrong. XP runs fine on most netbooks. Check a couple reviews first before making assumptions.



Meh, it's not that amazing. link
It'd be amazing if they crammed in more features like 3G and a second USB port in the same size.

Lets just come to terms with the fact that the Macbook Air isn't for you but it is for others like me. Ports do not make a computer amazing to me. I don't even use the ports on my MBP (everything is wireless), nor do own a second battery to change out on the go. The Air does exactly what I like to do and how I like to use my computer. And those things it does very well.

It has the power(core 2 Duo along with nVidia 9400 graphics), size (13" screen and extremely thin), the large multitouch trackpad, the quality(unibody and one of the best LED displays on the market), style, and service that I can appreciate and that I am willing to pay the extra money for. I would not be happy with a netbook. As a matter of fact if the Air can outlast a netbook 2-3X over then the Air is not even any more expensive in the long run in my opinion. I think it can given that it is several times more powerful than a netbook and is of higher quality.

The Macbook Air IS worth it's price. I've proven it by naming several other manufacturers like Sony, Lenovo, Toshiba, Dell that also make high end, expensive ultraportables. As a matter of fact Dell makes both, a netbook and an expensive ultraportable. This proves the fact that Apple is not overcharging for the Air. Its a different category all together and it's not a netbook.

Comparing a netbook and the Air is like comparing the cheapest car in the world to a Porsche and claiming they can both hold 2 people and take them from point A to point B. These are two different categories of cars just like how the Netbook v. Air is two different categories of computers.

Anyways I think I am done with this discussion. You get what you pay for and if you don't need the 'better' thing then I recommend not getting it. I think I need the better thing

Kan-O-Z

 

[Molopo]

Much less than half.

Actually a 1.6 dual core will only outperform the 1.6 atom by 20-30%, roughly. Clock speed is still 1.6 on both, the extra core just lets you make the most out of your given resources.

Thanks. So let me try to attach number to yours, mine, and everybody else's statements. It was always my impression that I'm paying extra for a Mac, on the order of 50%. So, while I can get a Dell with comparable specs to a Macbook, I would pay $1000 for the latter and ~$666 for the former.

Also, we agree that the Air is superior to the Eee, and really targets a different group. I'd say combining the larger screen, dual core, graphics card, aluminum body, etc (add all things people have mentioned above) it could be up to a factor 2 more expensive than the Eee, taking into account that the Air is not better in all the specs. That makes $1000. Furthermore add the 50% Apple Tax and you're at $1500. That's reasonably close to the price of the real Air, though still a bit short.

I guess in a way the question I had boils down to the question of why the Air is so much more expensive than the regular Macbook (which always seemed reasonably priced to me) and I guess this has been amply discussed elsewhere.

Anyway, thanks for taking part in the brain storming.

It's already been proven/discussed on gizmodo that there is no such dell. Perhaps if you completely disgregard form factor (i.e. two inches thick/8~ pounds), then yes you may be able to get a laptop with better specs than a macbook for the same price.

 

[Roadking]

although I didn't purchase the air. I was in the same situation. I wanted to purchase one of the netbooks because of the size and portability. I ended up with the macbook instead of either.

I wanted to stick with osx instead of windows xp on the netbook. I know about the msi wind and installing osx on it, but I also heard that all the kinks have not been worked out of it yet. I wanted to use the camera function to be able to communicate with my family while i was on the road.

Although I only seem to use the optical drive when I am on the road (dvd's) It is still a nice feature to have built in.

I may still get an air one day. Probably once they get rid of the button on the track pad and upgrade it to the current look of the new books.

 

[pointandclick]

If I've ever seen a Mac-Nazi, you're it Kan-O-Z. Most of what you list as "facts" are simply your opinions, well presented in an authoritative manner.
Other facts are simply false or misrepresented.

Apple hardware isn't somehow magically "better" than any other computers. True, Apple tends to use better spec'd hardware standard, such as in their network components, backlighting, etc. That doesn't mean comparable offerings aren't available from other manufacturers.

Anyway, when comparing netbooks with the Air, you must first realize what you are comparing.
Netbooks are meant to be used for general use as a second computer.
The Air is a sub-notebook, which tend to have comparable specs to a regular notebook with a price premium for their size. Although they could be used as an only computer, it's safe to assume most use them as a secondary mobile computer also.

There's no comparison between the hardware. The Air will blow any netbook out of the water. The funny thing is, however, that either one will suit the needs of the majority of users.

The Air is competitively priced with other sub-notebooks. I would never buy any of these though. In my mind if I want a small, light machine that I can carry around to take notes and surf the web, I would rather have something cheap that I can throw around and not need to worry about damaging it or it walking off. I'm not so concerned with running photoshop.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

If I've ever seen a Mac-Nazi, you're it Kan-O-Z. Most of what you list as "facts" are simply your opinions, well presented in an authoritative manner.
Other facts are simply false or misrepresented.

Apple hardware isn't somehow magically "better" than any other computers. True, Apple tends to use better spec'd hardware standard, such as in their network components, backlighting, etc. That doesn't mean comparable offerings aren't available from other manufacturers.

Sorry if I came off that way. Would you like to give me examples of my false facts or facts that are really opinions?

When I stated that Apple is better quality, I was comparing the Air to the netbook, not a high end Sony PC. There is just no way that a $300-$400 computer can rival a $1600+ computer in quality. When I say quality I am not necessarily talking about CPU or harddrive. I am also talking about how the Air is put together, what materials are used, what parts are used. A unibody enclosure made of one piece of aluminum is higher quality, the 13" LED screen is higher quality, the trackpad and keyboard is higher quality, etc. True these aren't facts you would find in a spec sheet but surely you would agree wouldn't you?

Kan-O-Z