Is the new Mac Pro a failure?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by ZombiePhysicist, Nov 20, 2015.

?

Is the new Mac Pro a Failure for traditional Mac Creative and Professional customers

  1. Yes, It's a failure

    57.8%
  2. No, It's a success

    42.2%
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  1. ZombiePhysicist, Nov 20, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016

    ZombiePhysicist macrumors 6502

    ZombiePhysicist

    Joined:
    May 22, 2014
    #1
    Is the new Mac Pro a Failure for traditional Mac Creative and Professional customers?

    I purposefully gave only two options to polarize this issue. No middle ground. Take a stand one way or another. I think this can be good feedback for Apple. Feel free to post your comments and reasons below.

    Edit: Another article on the topic of interest:
    http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/new-mac-pro-2015-release-date-apple-ditched-discontinued-3536364/

    Edit: So here is an article on the topic that might be of interest:
    http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/the-new-mac-pro-is-a-failure

    Edit: So here is a podcast on the topic that might be of interest:
    http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/podcast/acm-334-apples-mac-pro-vs.-the-devils-advocate
     
  2. ProjectManager101 Suspended

    ProjectManager101

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    Jul 12, 2015
    #2
    1. Appliances do what they do, they is not such thing as "bad devices" only ignorant users.

    2. Apple couldn't care less about that "feedback".
     
  3. biker4mac macrumors member

    biker4mac

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    Location:
    South Central Pennsylvania
    #3
    After all the wait for the new Mac Pro, I was extremely disappointed in the “all in one” form factor. They tell you that the USB, Thunderbolt, Ethernet, and HDMI ports will provide you with all the expansion that you need – but then you end up with components laying all over your desk. The nice aluminum tower of the previous Mac Pro tucks everything inside. Then there is the proprietary format of the graphics cards, limited internal storage options, and no PCI expansion.

    Pro users just need more than a “one size fits all” solution. Yes, you can choose your processor. Yes, you can add memory. Yes, you can choose one of three internal SSDs. Yes, you can choose from three graphics options – all within one single manufacturer’s family. But that is not what a professional user is looking for.

    If this comes to Apple saying that there is no market for the Mac Pro, it is only because they have ignored and neglected the market since 2009. There were only minor updates in 2010 and then only a slight speed bump to the classic Mac Pro in 2012. Finally, after nearly five years of waiting for a substantial update, they brought out a machine that just doesn’t have the features many professional users were looking for.

    I’ll keep using my “old” Mac Pro for as long as I can, but I don’t know what my options will be when I am finally forced to upgrade away from it.
     
  4. 996085 macrumors 6502

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  5. 996085 macrumors 6502

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    Oct 5, 2015
    #5
    You'll evaluate what is available at that time. If Apple doesn't have something for you then you'll look outside of Apple. With the nMP many have already done so.
     
  6. ZombiePhysicist thread starter macrumors 6502

    ZombiePhysicist

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    #6
    It's a poll. You get to decide for yourself. :)
     
  7. rawweb, Nov 20, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015

    rawweb macrumors 6502a

    rawweb

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    #7
    I run a 8c 64gb D700 6,1 at work, does it get the job done? sure. It's quiet, sits behind my displays and does what I ask it to do. Since I'm a video editor editing 4k commercials and company communication videos I had to come up with some pretty...expensive storage solutions. I threw a massive LaCie Thunderbolt 24tb raid rack ($2,000 smazolians) into my producer desk...It's way louder than a quad g5 crunching potato chips, but I needed something that could raid several enterprise class drives together, and it just happened to fit my desk. With other extras, this rig costs over 12k.

    Meanwhile, at home, my 12c 5,1 could double the ram capacity and my internal 5 disk raid easily matches that hideously expensive thing mentioned above. Purring along with 60% less noise. Honestly? Both machines are great, for me. Personally? Not sure I would ever drop that kinda cash on a 6,1.

    But in terms of 'being a failure'. Look at it this way. The last time Mac Pro probably sold huge numbers was in 2010. When the 'refresh' happened in 2012, customers were scratching their heads to the point Apple removed the "new" sticker from it's online store and Tim Cook backpedalled publicly saying they were working on something else. So, I'd bet 2012 sales were less than stellar. The 6,1? Anything they could compare it to would be from a time when the iPad was in diapers. That means they're comparing sales to other PC's from data collected by other companies (if they even care to do that) So, from Apple's perspective, I'm sure they think it's doing just fine, or it would have been removed from the lineup. Remember, this is the same company who's mantra is customers don't know what they want.
     
  8. AidenShaw macrumors P6

    AidenShaw

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    The Peninsula
    #8
    And this is basically true, because in the workstation market many of the people who know what they need and want are no longer Apple customers. The MP6,1 is a poke in the eye to many of these people.

    I seriously doubt that there will be an nnMP - the MP6,1 could be the end. No Haswell-EP upgrade, pretending that Radeon desktop GPUs were Firepros,....

    Apple wants to be out of that market, and the weak MP6,1 offering is their exit strategy.
     
  9. phrehdd macrumors 68040

    phrehdd

    Joined:
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    #9
    Yep, people can define success and failure any way they want. From an end user perspective, this was form over function which seems to fit right in with some of Apple's market model. Users are forced to take what Apple gives if they want to stay with OSX.

    There is something incredibly sad yet funny about this "pro" Mac as it really isn't up to task on upgrades beyond a very narrow realm (unlike its predecessors). Nothing like boasting how small it is while knowing damn well that external devices will have to be attached and there goes the footprint boast - a crock of umm Apple sauce. From my perspective, this Mac is nothing more than a Mac Mini Pro. The Mac Pro was retired with this "cool factor" machine with a starting price that makes no sense when you consider upper end iMacs out performing in many tests the bottom line Mac (mini) Pro.

    I am sure there are fanboy whines out there saying how unfair or untrue my statements are. That is okay. Let them take on the Apple Lemming Mascot banner... to each their own.
     
  10. rawweb macrumors 6502a

    rawweb

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    #10
    I am inclined to agree. Frankly, I could see them transitioning soley to iMac's and MacBooks. Mac Pro, Apple Displays and Mac Mini have more or less been neglected in one way or another to the point that it wouldn't surprise me to see any of them completely discontinued.

    Apple has never had a very extensive product offering. Today, they have more than ever. That back table in the retail store that has a Thunderbolt Display, Mac Pro and Mac Mini would make a great space for a couple of next gen iPad Pro Deluxe Air Editions and iWatch Pro Shuffles...by the sounds of it, they're going to have to make some room for a couple of cars to showcase someday too....
     
  11. whodatrr macrumors 6502a

    whodatrr

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    #11
    Well, I thought the material were neat, though I tend to shove towers and such under the desk. As an American, I did appreciate that they build these a few miles from me. I also have an affinity for the shape... LOL

    [​IMG]

    But I must admit that it was sad to see easily and cheaply upgradeable Macs go by by. I went to iMacs for my desktops, about 5yrs ago, mainly because I felt that the Pro line was ignored to the point that it didn't make much sense. I'm not really into having a bunch of boxes with cables attached, floating about. I'm much more into a big old tower that I can fiddle with, using standard components.

    So yeah, the design had a bit to do with it. But the biggest reason for me avoiding the Mac Pro is Apple going a couple years between updates.
     
  12. gibbz macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    #12
    I have the fully-loaded 12-core version and use it for turbulence modeling and numerical weather prediction. I store everything on an external thunderbolt array. The machine has done what I hoped, so I guess it is a success (for me).
     
  13. whodatrr macrumors 6502a

    whodatrr

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    #13
    Very cool! Are these scaled down versions of code you run on larger systems?

     
  14. ApfelKuchen, Nov 20, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015

    ApfelKuchen macrumors 68020

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    Between the coasts
    #14
    Thanks for the photo, a delightful blast from the past! (Made a few bucks on shares of that stock, too!)

    I'd much rather see a poll on, "What's that thing, and who's that guy" than another chance to rehash the nMP. Apple's not going to give us sales statistics, and the the people who didn't get what they wished for still don't have what they wished for. And if I was Apple, I would not consider this poll to be useful market research.
     
  15. gibbz macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    #15
    In essence. I use it for testing and running smaller problems. It can easily handle a short, regional weather forecast, but if I want to run a large simulation to study turbulence on very small scales, I have to run it on a supercomputer (I currently use the Yellowstone supercomputer in Wyoming).
     
  16. whodatrr macrumors 6502a

    whodatrr

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    #16
    Those both look like a pretty capable systems, though one has an extra 70,000 or so cores... congrats!

     
  17. nerdynerdynerdy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    #17
    I'm a professional editor/Adobe CS user, and intend to upgrade my old Mac Pro 1 to the new design. For me the "cables everywhere" thing is a non-issue. I will have the same number of peripherals, drives and cables with the new design apart from one extra thunderbolt for my RAID drives which will be external.

    This is actually a significant bonus for me, as taking a job on the road with a laptop will be a matter of unplugging one cable and popping the RAID in a bag.

    Currently I need to duplicate many GB of media if I want to take a job on the road, which is time consuming and tedious.


    In terms of upgrading, I have never upgraded anything beyond adding a hard drive. I don't even know what graphics card I have. I can tell you that a very significant percentage of my peers would have no idea what processor or graphics card they run.

    I think the new design is aimed squarely at users like me, and I think it's a success.
     
  18. nerdynerdynerdy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    #18
    And to expand a little on my point above: when I freelance in medium and large facilities, there is no media storage in any edit suite, ever. It's all stored centrally on a server.

    The software I use, Avid Media Composer, now also has the ability to connect to these servers remotely via the Internet.
     
  19. DoofenshmirtzEI macrumors 6502a

    DoofenshmirtzEI

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    #19
    I don't see how Apple can drop the Mac Pro, or at least some machine with support for ECC memory. Mac OS and iOS developers have no choice but to use a Mac, and doing any kind of heavy development work without ECC is shooting yourself in the foot.
     
  20. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #20
    Wherever I saw th 6.1 being purchased it was in companies which had a clueless purchasing department. They just heard the requirement was for 'Macs' and external monitors so they go ahead and buy the nMP because they were dumb enough to think Adobe's apps don't run properly on Windows, when in fact they run better on a cheaper well kitted PC. Most have not upgraded their cMPs though and the majority of creatives continue to use iMacs. The latest 5K model with Skylake processor makes the Mac Pro (nMP design) line redundant for most uses.
     
  21. gpzjock macrumors 6502a

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    May 4, 2009
    #21
    My Mac Pro 3,1 is still doing its job fine and I have augmented it with an i7 Hackintosh, the Mac Pro mini is of no interest to me; due to the lack of choice in GFX cards and expansion without external T/B ports.
    Sounds like a fail to me.
     
  22. Simon R. macrumors 6502

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    #22
    You are right. I know for sure that Apple are losing professional audio users. Composers mainly I believe, but possibly also ProTools users. Because many people are questioning Apple's commitment to pro computers because of the nMP... Many people are jumping from Mac/Logic to PC/Cubase these days.

    I have tried converting to Cubase many times but I just prefer OS X and Logic, but sometime if Apple don't commit to providing pro solutions I might as well be forced to go PC/Cubase.
     
  23. biker4mac macrumors member

    biker4mac

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    #23
    True. My concern is that there won’t be a Mac that suits my needs. Just changing path from one software package to another can be an issue. The reason why companies stick with AutoCAD or MS Office or such - it’s easier and cheaper to stick with what they have than invest in going to something new. Switching from OSX to something else would be an even bigger change - more so than the other way around because people going from Windows to Mac can use Bootcamp to soften the blow and continue using some of their legacy software.

    For me it isn’t even a matter of upgrading - it’s customizing right out of the gate.

    I’m running dual NVidia Geforce GTX 680 graphics cards to do architectural rendering with VRAY (which uses CUDA instead of OpenCL) - so right there I would need a PCIe Thunderbolt expansion chassis if I got a nMP since there are no options other than AMD for graphics.

    I’m running an SSD and three 1Tb drives in my current case along with two BDXL burners. I’ve got a USB and a Firewire expansion card in there to serve several scanners, printers, and other peripherals.

    “PCs are going to be like trucks,” (Tim Cook) said at the D Conference that May. “They are still going to be around [but only] one out of x people will need them.”

    Except that Apple welded the cargo doors shut with the Mac Pro... No PCIe slots, no graphics options other than AMD, only solid state drives and no additional hard drive bays... Only external expansion. Apple has been following the lead of their tablets and notebooks with their desktops - using closed architecture with minimal opportunity to upgrade or customize for professional use.
     
  24. whodatrr macrumors 6502a

    whodatrr

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    #24
    And the other thing that bugs me is that, for a "Green" company, Apple sure seems to make a lot of disposable goods. Granted, as the resale value of Macs is high, it's pretty easy to sell older systems when upgrading to new ones. Still, there are lots of situations where one may not want to do that. Personally, I'm at an phase where the excitement of change isn't necessarily a good thing, and as I rely upon my systems to keep a roof over my family's head, a wholesale rip and replace can be stressful. Just had that happen with a new 5k iMac that I wound up having to return, after various hardware failures... that cost me productivity and lots of lost time.

    Looking at Apple's current desktop/laptop lineup, almost nothing is replaceable or upgradeable. There's noting that can be upgraded on notebooks, and there are even some desktop that users can't upgrade RAM on (iMac 21). Compare this to say.... Dell. I can upgrade just about anything on all of their workstations, and even their laptops are fairly easily-user upgradeable. I was looking at the new whiz-bang XPS 15, and you can upgrade: RAM, SSD, NIC, etc. on that thing. few screws, and you're good to go. As someone mentioned above, this isn't just about future-proofness. Sometimes upgrades are needed for shifting use-cases (eh. CUDA).

    So the nMP was largely about moving that product line to a rip & replace model, much like the rest of what Apple sells. Part of me really balks at this, as it's wasteful and seems somewhat greedy. And really, how to they expect us to invest in a workstation that they don't touch for a couple years? Hey, I get them being greedy - but don't try to gouge us with outdated technology, when there are so many better options about.

    Speaking of greed, in my case, Apple's recent push to iCloud may be nudging me off of their ecosystem. I've been accustomed to my main workstation being a Mac, because it also served up the family ecosystem stuff locally (iPhoto, iTunes, etc.). This has worked well, enabling family and friends to curate and synchronize stuff locally. Now, with every recent OS X upgrade, Apple is pushing us farther and farther into their overpriced cloud. Some of us don't want every photo or movie we have shared on the cloud, and few of us are willing to pay to do so. And for work, many of us are already locked into some sort of corporate cloud service (I don't see myself insisting my colleagues or partners drop their Box or O365 accounts, for iCloud). This is an alarming trend... much like they did away with upgradeable systems, they are also trying to do away with family/SOHO servers.

    From a family-personal perspective, Apple making it hard to update their desktops (nMP, iMAC/Mini) makes them less appealing. And Apple forcing users to rely on their Cloud, vs LAN/WAN services, is disturbing. From a professional perspective, most of the people I work with are 50/50 Mac/Win, so switching wouldn't be that hard.

    Anyhow, I postponed my iMac upgrade for a bit longer, to see what Apple does with the nMP. But if it's still not very upgradeable, and they keep pushing local services into the cloud, A Dell Precision workstation is looking very appealing....
     
  25. 996085 macrumors 6502

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    #25
    Then I would recommend you start investigating a migration away from the Mac soon. Making a move can be time consuming so better to start seeing what's available and what's involved before you're forced to. If I were a professional who relies on Mac products for a living I'd be doing so. Apple has signaled they don't care about professionals any longer.
     
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