I made no such claim therefore this response of yours is arguing a strawman.
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MP 7,1 Is the new Mac Pro too niche?
- Thread starter maflynn
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russell_314
Suspended
Because laptops outsell desktops by more than two to one and desktops are becoming more of a niche computer for gamers. Apple isn't likely to spend money on R&D making something that could soon be obsolete. It would be like them trying to design in a headphone jack for the new iPhone because a few people on here still want it.
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I mixed up your quote with one from a post from another person. My apologies. Your comment "There are plenty of non-gamers who would want such a system" is pretty generic so if a 100 people wanted one it would be correct.
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Actually if you post something in the forms claiming it to be a fact it's up to you to provide a source for the claim.
cram501
macrumors regular
The death of the desktop has been trumpeted loudly for at least the last 10+ years. Since sales are still up above 90 million units, I don't think in general it falls into a niche. Even in the next 4 years it is still forecast above 70 million units.
A consumer desktop doesn't take all that much R&D. You can build a solid, reliable Hackentosh easily. My guess is it has nothing to do with the death of the desktop or R&D Costs and everything to do with not wanting to be in that market.
Apple wants to sell replaceable commodities and not something people can upgrade on their own. They want high volume, expensive items that consumers replace when it breaks or the newest/shiny toy comes out (like the iPad and iPhone). They are willing to do this with enterprise, high cost organizations because they probably don't do upgrades often and/or they are willing to pay Apple a lot of money for them.
russell_314
Suspended
Again how many of those 90 million desktops are bought by PC gamers. I don't know and can't find a statistic but I'm willing to bet it's a majority. Apple so far hasn't been able to get many game devs on board with Mac OS. I'm aware that Mac OS games are out there but the vast majority are Windows only.
You can't compare assembling parts you buy online to assemble a Hackentosh to the R&D required for a company like Apple to make a computer. While some parts can be purchased like the CPU, RAM, and SSD, others like the motherboard, case, and overall design will require R&D. I'm not saying it isn't possible but Apple has to determine if the overall costs will be worth it based on expected sales.
As to Apple only wanting to sell high volume well volume equals sales and better sales so obviously they want more volume or sales. If you can't have volume then the cost will go up to offset R&D. Big businesses are often willing to pay money for low volume expensive equipment but many retail consumers either can't or won't.
When you mention items that require repair or replacement Apple has a big consideration on this. It's not like when you buy a computer at a retail store. If it breaks six months later you have to buy a new one or pay to repair it. People have an expectation that Apple will fix or provide technical support for an item even after the warranty has expired. This adds cost to the sale price.
I'm not saying I don't want Apple to make a consumer desktop because I do and would likely buy one. I'm just saying I'm not sure if there's much of a market for non gaming desktops that are in the Apple price range.
If you don't know then stop arguing as if you do.
cram501
macrumors regular
I don't think it matters what the market is for desktops. I'm saying that volume says its not a niche product.
Sure I can since it provides a baseline. I'm sure Apple would do R&D and make it unique with Apple pricing. You can get an idea of the cost of a Dell, HP, etc... based on the parts they use. This is the same example people on this thread use to justify the high price of the Mac Pro.
And that is why the cost to purchase a Mac Pro is so high. I don't think they expect or want high volume. They want some high end studios/companies to use their product for marketing. They don't want Joe the Nerd to buy this product and tinker with it. If Joe the Nerd buys it, they want to make him pay a premium and treat him like an enterprise customer.
I'm not saying that as a negative. Just my opinion on why the price is so high and why in the long run the Mac Pro may have a low volume relative to their other products.
I think you would lose that bet .
Games used to demand high end hardware , GPUs in particular , which require a tower PC to be used .
But that hardware has become too expensive for gamers - again, mainly latest GPU tech - and the 'minimum hardware requirement' craze has ended a few years ago , game developers have stopped games being more and more demanding .
russell_314
Suspended
I'm not saying gamers don't use laptops because I use a laptop myself. I'm just saying that desktops have the ability to outperform laptops on the high end so this makes them popular with gamers that have the $$$$. Even not counting the super high end they outperform laptops in their price bracket. It is close and you can get a decent gaming laptop for a good price. I play with a mid range laptop that plays most games on medium to high settings. This is why I think Apple can't cater to the gaming market. My Windows gaming laptop was about $1600 and I can see if Apple released anything, desktop or laptop with similar specifications it would be over $3000. I don't know how many people would spend double the price just to have a Mac so they could boot into Windows for gaming. So if Apple can't market desktops to gamers who else is going to spend $2500 plus for one? There might be a niche market for low end commercial use but I don't see home use. Granted there's people out there with money that will buy anything Apple sells but that's not going to be enough sales to make it worth it. They would first need a market for this desktop before they produce it. I'm fairly confident if Apple feels there is a market for a product they will make it.
There is no gaming computer market anymore .
And for the love of god, use paragraphs .
The only individual I've seen discussing gaming, at least in this thread, is you. Perhaps I've missed it but I have not seen anyone in this thread, or others, where people wanted a mid-range system for gaming. Everything I've read is from people who want a mid-range, internally expandable, headless tower for their professions. Professions which do not require a high end systems such as this new Mac Pro.
russell_314
Suspended
Perhaps you missed it where I said gamers are a significant portion of the high end desktop market. Perhaps you missed where I posed the question about specifically what market would this Mac of your dreams would cover... Naaa you didn't miss that LOL
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No not at all. There's not like specialized laptops and desktops marketed at gamers... I must be confused
You're right, I didn't miss that. Which is why I said:
The only individual I've seen discussing gaming, at least in this thread, is you.
flygbuss
macrumors 6502a
Seems like a lot of people are confused about actual need and desire.
I talked to some friends in color grading and they’re all pretty exited about the new Mac Pro (I will try to get them on record later as proof).
I talked to some friends in color grading and they’re all pretty exited about the new Mac Pro (I will try to get them on record later as proof).
George Dawes
Suspended
Compared to the crazy prices I was paying for Mac gear in the early 90s this is a bargain in real terms
The spec on this thing is really impressive
The spec on this thing is really impressive
Well, compared to now it's highway robbery . In real terms . As in relevant .
Compared to the 90s it must look mighty .
I remember the studio that I worked for when the very first G5 came out, we bought half a dozen of the base model specifically because it was way cheaper as a single chip config. Later in the years turned out it was not a wise decision as it got outperformed too soon and had limited its upgrade path. I think they waited and upgraded straight to Mac Pro 1,1.
I fully agree .
With every release of a new Mac design there is a great desire to applaud it .
The actual needs tend to be discussed lateron .
Don't bother .
cram501
macrumors regular
I'm not sure there is any confusion. I would call it disappointment.
People asked for a MP that was configurable and included them in the target audience . What Apple produced was a configuration that was targeted at a much smaller group/industry.
turbineseaplane
macrumors Penryn
This release is wonderful if you're on a Hollywood studio budget and you were clamoring for a "Mac Pro VFX"
flygbuss
macrumors 6502a
Is this a fact? As someone mentioned earlier in this thread:
Apparently the user doesn't seem to mind this time.
Anyway, I think I get what you're saying, 'people' are frustrated about the price.
Maybe they will release something between Mac mini and Mac Pro next year, maybe not. We will see.
I would be happy to see an other modular Mac.
cram501
macrumors regular
Of course it is an opinion. Unless you know Apples intent or have material that indicates what their intentions are for the Mac Pro besides marketing speak, of course these are just opinions. We have 13 pages of opinions.
All indications from the last event gave me the impression they are targeting a small group/industry so I'm not sure I get your point.
dollystereo
macrumors 6502a
Yes, but we get premium support from dell (we have hundreds of them @ work) I use a T5820 with a 10 core Xeon, 64GB ram, 1TB SSD and a RTX2080TI and it cost 4k with 5 yaear premium support.
Just to add, most of the work that used to need a mac pro, now can be done in an imac. Even a macmini if you don't need GPU.
flygbuss
macrumors 6502a
My point is that despite the fact that an uncertain number of prosumers are upset or disapointed right now, the new Mac Pro will probably sell very well (opinion). It is upgradebale, it is powerfull and yes it is more expensive then the previous Mac Pro generations.
Like I said, I agree. It would be nice if they would offer something modular, less pro, for less money.
QCassidy352
macrumors G5
I think Apple's response to those who want a configurable desktop but can't afford/can't justify the MP would be to use the TB3 ports on a Mac mini to expand it as needed.
I'm not saying that's a GOOD answer or that it gives the people what they wanted, but I do think it's the solution Apple sees to the need you're describing.