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saintforlife

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 25, 2011
1,040
327
I am coming from an XR and the only reason I went with the XR back then was because the X gave me headaches after using it for a few weeks, and I swapped it for the XR. Now that all iPhones have moved to OLED panels, I guess there is no getting around OLED screens if you want the latest model of the iPhone. Given that, will the iPhone 12 mini be the best choice for someone whose eyes are sensitive to the constant swithing on an off of OLED screens? Does a smaller screen help at all with the PWM induced headache issue? If nothing else, having a smaller phone will probably prevent me from staring it at or playing with it for longer periods of time, so it might have other benefits too... :)
 
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cababah

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2009
1,873
446
SF Bay Area, CA
We won’t know until someone confirms but I remember users saying there were improvements with reduced PWM in the 11 series so it’s possible Apple made some further improvements with this generation. Time will tell!
 

austyn23

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2017
584
662
I don’t think the size of the screen would help... and if its too small and you have some sights problem, maybe is even worse.

I couldn’t stand the X and Xs screen (headache, eye strain), but have no issues with the 11P.
 
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bobmans

macrumors 6502a
Feb 7, 2020
528
1,450
I’d go for the LCD 11 instead or wait for the rumoured SE2021 that’s supposed to have a full screen lcd + touch id in the power button.
Don’t think much changed on the display side this year besides every phone now being OLED.
Phone size won’t help with PWM headaches.
 

JPack

macrumors G3
Mar 27, 2017
8,823
15,158
Smaller screen probably makes it more difficult to see on-screen elements.

So you might less exposed to a flickering display, but spend more effort looking at smaller graphic elements.
 

GrumpyMom

macrumors G4
Sep 11, 2014
10,540
15,854
Some of us who had pwm sensitivity are able to use the 11 Pro. The new Pro models have identical brightness levels as the 11 Pro. The iPhone 12 and 12 mini have a lower typical Max brightness of 625 nits. I had an interest in the mini but went with the phone that offered the display that most closely matches the one I know that works. So I went with the 12 Pro.

All the previous iPhones that bothered my eyes and migraines had a Max typical brightness of 625.
 

saintforlife

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 25, 2011
1,040
327
Some of us who had pwm sensitivity are able to use the 11 Pro. The new Pro models have identical brightness levels as the 11 Pro. The iPhone 12 and 12 mini have a lower typical Max brightness of 625 nits. I had an interest in the mini but went with the phone that offered the display that most closely matches the one I know that works. So I went with the 12 Pro.

All the previous iPhones that bothered my eyes and migraines had a Max typical brightness of 625.
That's a good point on the 625 vs 800 nits brightness spec. Maybe the iPhone 12 Pro is the way to go then. Thank you for the input!
 
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GrumpyMom

macrumors G4
Sep 11, 2014
10,540
15,854
That's a good point on the 625 vs 800 nits brightness spec. Maybe the iPhone 12 Pro is the way to go then. Thank you for the input!
Unfortunately there’s no way of knowing if that means anything until we get our phones and can report back. But I guess it is something that can eventually be looked at. Otherwise I’m not sure there’s any other differences between the displays this year.
 
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jm31828

macrumors 6502a
Sep 28, 2015
689
407
Bothell, Washington
Unfortunately there’s no way of knowing if that means anything until we get our phones and can report back. But I guess it is something that can eventually be looked at. Otherwise I’m not sure there’s any other differences between the displays this year.
Yes, I am so torn on this, too! I had trouble with the XS two years ago and had to trade it, and have been back on LCD models since. But I really want to get the mini for the size, and like the OP I was hopeful that the smaller screen = less sharp light and flicker blasting me in the face= less discomfort. But who really knows!


But I also am really interested in the Pro, for the extra features, higher specs, the 3rd lens, etc. A concern was not so much about cost, but more about the fact that it is a big screen- bigger than the XS was- so I was worried it would be bad for my eyes with the PWM flicker.
 

GrumpyMom

macrumors G4
Sep 11, 2014
10,540
15,854
Yes, I am so torn on this, too! I had trouble with the XS two years ago and had to trade it, and have been back on LCD models since. But I really want to get the mini for the size, and like the OP I was hopeful that the smaller screen = less sharp light and flicker blasting me in the face= less discomfort. But who really knows!


But I also am really interested in the Pro, for the extra features, higher specs, the 3rd lens, etc. A concern was not so much about cost, but more about the fact that it is a big screen- bigger than the XS was- so I was worried it would be bad for my eyes with the PWM flicker.
I got the 12 Pro. It doesn’t give me headaches but it makes my eyes water and I have had trouble focusing on print. It’s helped to switch to dark mode. And I absolutely can not have True Tone on.

This is the opposite case with my 11 Pro. I can’t use my 11 Pro on dark mode! Lol I don’t know what the hell is going on.

Still, the 12 Pro display isn’t nearly as difficult for me as the iPhone X display was. And there’s signs my eyes are gradually adjusting.

I haven’t gotten any headaches, but I have gotten fatigue and it makes me sleepy due to the eye strain.

I am returning my 12 Pro but not over the display issues. I feel over time my eyes will adjust or I will just use my Android phones more for things like ebooks and email and keep the Pro around to be in the ecosystem and keep up with iMessages. And use the great camera.

No, the killer for me is I can’t hold the device without really nasty hand pain. It’s just too heavy. Possibly too wide, too.

So I reluctantly am sending it back. I don’t know what I’ll do next. My 11 Pro also hurts my hands. The SE display causes a white flicker at the edge of my vision that happens after I’ve been using the phone for a few minutes.

I need iMessage while I still have kids in school. Even with them home schooling I’m getting frantic texts. It’s a stressful school year. In another few years I’ll just stop using smart phones. Maybe get the landline working again. I’m not aging well and it’s time to just let go.
 
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iApple_man

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2015
346
166
Midwest
@GrumpyMom Sorry you have to return your 12. Glad it’s not for the pwm but still. Try the mini if not the 11 is fine.

The 12 for me has worked out. I was hyper sensitive about pwm but should’ve known since I was able to use the 11 pro. If anything I was feeling color choice remorse but I’m over that too. Lol. I think it was more fun receiving the package and maybe wanting to do it again, and next week other people’s original SE dreams come true, the smaller all screen. That was my choice but I need battery power.
 
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GrumpyMom

macrumors G4
Sep 11, 2014
10,540
15,854
@GrumpyMom Sorry you have to return your 12. Glad it’s not for the pwm but still. Try the mini if not the 11 is fine.

The 12 for me has worked out. I was hyper sensitive about pwm but should’ve known since I was able to use the 11 pro. If anything I was feeling color choice remorse but I’m over that too. Lol. I think it was more fun receiving the package and maybe wanting to do it again, and next week other people’s original SE dreams come true, the smaller all screen. That was my choice but I need battery power.
It was a 12 Pro that didn’t work out. It’s surprisingly heavy and hard for me to hold for very long. I mean even five minutes! I’m going to try the full size 12 since a lot of people say there’s a difference between the two and the regular 12 feels lighter with a better center of balance in the hand. If that doesn’t work I’ll try the mini. I think typing on the mini may feel a bit cramped. It does feel a bit cramped already on my SE. But it’s an option.
 
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iApple_man

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2015
346
166
Midwest
It was a 12 Pro that didn’t work out. It’s surprisingly heavy and hard for me to hold for very long. I mean even five minutes! I’m going to try the full size 12 since a lot of people say there’s a difference between the two and the regular 12 feels lighter with a better center of balance in the hand. If that doesn’t work I’ll try the mini. I think typing on the mini may feel a bit cramped. It does feel a bit cramped already on my SE. But it’s an option.
The mini does seem interesting still. The 12 should be fine and it is lite. Didn’t know the 12 Pro was/is considered heavier. Only difference I’ve read is the camera but maybe that’s the reason, but ok, have fun on your phone journey 👍, I’m sure I will see your posts around about your experience. I may still get on this hype train for the mini 😆
 
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saintforlife

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 25, 2011
1,040
327
@GrumpyMom Sorry you have to return your 12. Glad it’s not for the pwm but still. Try the mini if not the 11 is fine.

The 12 for me has worked out. I was hyper sensitive about pwm but should’ve known since I was able to use the 11 pro. If anything I was feeling color choice remorse but I’m over that too. Lol. I think it was more fun receiving the package and maybe wanting to do it again, and next week other people’s original SE dreams come true, the smaller all screen. That was my choice but I need battery power.
Did you get the 12 or the 12 Pro?
 

iApple_man

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2015
346
166
Midwest
Did you get the 12 or the 12 Pro?
Well in the paragraph you quoted me in, I said the 12 had worked out, BUT actually I DID do the preorder for the mini and that is my choice. The battery is better than what I thought. The 12 is awesome but I wanted a compact decent size and the mini is it so I returned the 12 and oh, no PWM with the mini at all.
 
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tom.forclaz

macrumors newbie
Nov 18, 2020
8
0
I bought 12 mini as my first iPhone. Before this purchase, I had a few android AMOLED phones with no problem (sensitivity to flickering). iPhone 12 mini didn't work for me. I have tried 2 units with the same results. After just five minutes developed a real headache and dizziness almost feel like I'm going to vomit. I tried to settle a few days but every day my sensitivity was worse. I'm not willing to trade my eyes health for a piece of new tech.
Now I have iPhone 11 with no problems.
 
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mjb59463

macrumors 6502
Jan 10, 2012
402
155
In my experience, the 12 mini was much worse.

I owned the X, XS, 11 Pro and experienced no issues whatsoever with PWM. Then I upgraded to the 12 Mini and my eyes went absolutely nuts (dry, red, aching). I’ve never experienced discomfort like that before.

After two days of playing around with settings (brightness, reduce white point, etc) and experiencing no relief, I packed it back up in the box and returned it for the 12 Pro.

No issues to report with the 12 Pro and my eyes are back to normal.
 

saintforlife

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 25, 2011
1,040
327
So I got the iPhone 12 Pro after reading some threads on here that it could be the better option for people affected by PWM, but unfortunately after using it for two days and dealing with eyestrain and migrane headaches, I had to return it. Looks like OLED screens aren't for me afterall. Will get the iPhone 11 now and hold on to it for dear life and hope Apple comes out with better screen technology that doesn't excude a small section of its users.
 
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shady16

macrumors 6502a
Oct 3, 2019
505
314
So I got the iPhone 12 Pro after reading some threads on here that it could be the better option for people affected by PWM, but unfortunately after using it for two days and dealing with eyestrain and migrane headaches, I had to return it. Looks like OLED screens aren't for me afterall. Will get the iPhone 11 now and hold on to it for dear life and hope Apple comes out with better screen technology that doesn't excude a small section of its users.
you will likely be waiting a while until apple includes micro led into there smartphone displays, next years iPhones are alll expected to be OLED still. im guessing possibly next design refresh in 2023 is when we could potentially see micro led in iphones. Next LCD could potentially be another SE refresh dont know anything on that.
 
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saintforlife

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 25, 2011
1,040
327
you will likely be waiting a while until apple includes micro led into there smartphone displays, next years iPhones are alll expected to be OLED still. im guessing possibly next design refresh in 2023 is when we could potentially see micro led in iphones. Next LCD could potentially be another SE refresh dont know anything on that.
Yeah, I am hoping the iPhone 11 still works well till they release the micro LED phones. BTW, do you know if the micro LED screen uses a different brightness control technology that will not cause the same issues as OLED screens do?
 

shady16

macrumors 6502a
Oct 3, 2019
505
314
Yeah, I am hoping the iPhone 11 still works well till they release the micro LED phones. BTW, do you know if the micro LED screen uses a different brightness control technology that will not cause the same issues as OLED screens do?
unfortunately as far as i know theres not enough information on this yet. Apple uses different technology. Most people with PWM sensitivity can use OLED screens from samsung and other android phones fine but not iPhones. its probably to late but did you try setting the phone at 50% brightness and above and reducing whites like some have mentioned to migitate the effects? i have the 12 PM and fortunately i do not have this sensitivity..
 

yticolev

macrumors 6502
Sep 27, 2015
297
274
you will likely be waiting a while until apple includes micro led into there smartphone displays, next years iPhones are alll expected to be OLED still. im guessing possibly next design refresh in 2023 is when we could potentially see micro led in iphones.
There are two other technologies Apple could use to fix iPhone 13 screens besides micro led. One is DC dimming (no PWM), and the other is simply doubling the PWM frequency to where it no longer bothers those otherwise sensitive (would need a new controller I read).
 
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