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macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2015
4,340
5,384
Earth
What is your actual concern or problem with it exactly?

The proposed system is not even operational yet and there is no guarantee the EU will allow Apple to keep it as designed right now. From what we can see so far, nobody forces us to install an app from a third party store without our explicit consent (“security”) and Apple’s new proposed terms for developers are not going to encourage them to leave the AppStore in mass, except, possibly, for a selected few who can afford it.

Having said that, Apple will make it very difficult for the EU users to fool the system, as your iDevice geolocation will not lie about your whereabouts.
 

minimo3

macrumors 6502a
Oct 18, 2010
785
920
You can change your Apple ID location, see these steps https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201389. The main hurdle is you need a payment method from that region I.e. you’d need a US credit card if you wanted to change your region to United States. If you have a friend or family member who lives overseas get them to add you as a supplementary card holder and use that card.
 

IngoX

macrumors regular
Jan 4, 2022
124
88
Sweden
Only thing I can think of is that the user will be prompted to choose a default webbrowser the first time Safari is opened in 17.4. From a list of 12 available randomly ordered browsers.

This could theoretically cause confusion for a very inexperienced iOS-user.

Apart from that @leonremi needs to elaborate about his/her concerns with 17.4. My concern is that Apple have managed to dodge the intention of the EU legislation in some ways.
 

StumpyBloke

macrumors 603
Apr 21, 2012
5,330
5,810
England
Only thing I can think of is that the user will be prompted to choose a default webbrowser the first time Safari is opened in 17.4. From a list of 12 available randomly ordered browsers.

This could theoretically cause confusion for a very inexperienced iOS-user.

Otherwise OP needs to elaborate about his/her concerns with 17.4. My concern is that Apple seems to have managed to dodge the intention of the EU legislation in some ways.


And I hope that EU comes down really hard on Apple. Even by Apple standards, their response to these new regulations are beyond arrogant and contempt.
 
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iStorm

macrumors 68000
Sep 18, 2012
1,641
2,031
From what we can see so far, nobody forces us to install an app from a third party store without our explicit consent
There's more involved to this than just the App Store and side loading. Default browsers and PWA behavior are just a couple more. Who knows what else might get added in the future.

If that’s all they’ve got to worry about, they are very lucky in life.
It also affects how web apps work. Even if you still use Safari as your default browser, PWA apps on your Home Screen will no longer behave as web apps. They're essentially just dumbed down bookmarks to the site now.

You can change your Apple ID location, see these steps https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201389. The main hurdle is you need a payment method from that region I.e. you’d need a US credit card if you wanted to change your region to United States. If you have a friend or family member who lives overseas get them to add you as a supplementary card holder and use that card.
This will not solve anything. The EU changes are using SIM carrier information to geo-lock the changes. Changing the region on your phone or Apple ID will not get you around this. I believe this is also how they enforce the required shutter sound when taking photos in Japan.
 

Reverend Benny

macrumors 6502a
Apr 28, 2017
557
372
Europe
I'm looking for a way to get out of this cursed European change.

It would be nice if Apple provided some "easy" loophole to change our AppleID out of the European Union.
Could you elaborate? Not sure how changing your Apple ID would change anything?
Is it a concern about security or more of a statement?
 

leonremi

macrumors member
Original poster
May 12, 2017
80
146
First, the experience is getting objectively worse (see nerfing of the PWA).
Second I'm tired of Europe taking me for an imbecile.
I know full well that buying into Apple means buying into a walled garden.
THAT'S THE REASON WHY I BUY APPLE.
I want a streamlined, coherent experience between all my systems (iphone/watch/ipad/mac).
I don't need the supposed freedom of contributing to the dominance of the ****** Chrome Browser.
 

magicMac

macrumors 6502a
Apr 13, 2010
977
406
UK
First, the experience is getting objectively worse (see nerfing of the PWA).
Second I'm tired of Europe taking me for an imbecile.
I know full well that buying into Apple means buying into a walled garden.
THAT'S THE REASON WHY I BUY APPLE.
I want a streamlined, coherent experience between all my systems (iphone/watch/ipad/mac).
I don't need the supposed freedom of contributing to the dominance of the ****** Chrome Browser.

agree with you there. consumers will see very little if any benefit. Just a way to help MS and Google force their dominance onto iOS.

I like a level of openness, USB-C was good, deeply linked third party password manager and OTP passcode support, setting default browser and e-mail client is good. Standardising MagSafe as QI2, reliable third party BT headphone support (apple do this more than they get credit for). Don't have to buy an apple licensed lightning cable, can use any non apple Qi2 charger to get 15W charging now, can use any third party BT headphones and get a good experience (arguably better than the AirPods if you ask me), you get same experience with a third party password manager as you do with iCloud keychain now etc... RCS support coming soon. All stuff like this is good for consumers.

Apple should also probably not charge developers a fee on subscriptions that they also compete in (because that is anticompetitive, like towards spotify for example), but these EU changes do nothing about that.

The fundamental workings of iOS in its current form are fine, i see very few ordinary users (outside these forums) who actually want a third party store on their phone. Seems like Google and MS lobbied the EU and got what they wanted. It's all about others making money on iOS, nothing to do with consumer choice.

Here is a potentially worrying scenario - Meta launch an app store for iOS in the EU, this is now the only way to get WhatsApp. This sounds to me like abuse of market dominance by meta.
 
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adrianlondon

macrumors 601
Nov 28, 2013
4,971
7,427
Switzerland
You can change your Apple ID location, see these steps https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201389. The main hurdle is you need a payment method from that region I.e. you’d need a US credit card if you wanted to change your region to United States. If you have a friend or family member who lives overseas get them to add you as a supplementary card holder and use that card.
The region the Apple ID is set to is not used to work out whether the phone is being used within the EU or not.
 

one more

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2015
4,340
5,384
Earth
I want a streamlined, coherent experience between all my systems (iphone/watch/ipad/mac).

This should not be affected by the proposed changes. If anything, your iPhone and iPad will get closer to how it has been on your Mac for ages. Even that is uncertain, however, as Apple made it really cumbersome for small developers to jump app stores.
 
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one more

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2015
4,340
5,384
Earth
Here is a potentially worrying scenario - Meta launch an app store for iOS in the EU, this is now the only way to get WhatsApp. This sounds to me like abuse of market dominance by meta.

What for? To pay 0.50€ per installation and getting nothing in return? There are about 400 million people in the EU and lots of them are using WhatsApp - that is a lot of money Meta will be shelling out vs its current 0.
 

StumpyBloke

macrumors 603
Apr 21, 2012
5,330
5,810
England
Your location is determined by GPS so have any kind of foreign account you like, it ain’t gonna make any difference.
 

mrochester

macrumors 601
Feb 8, 2009
4,426
2,326
What for? To pay 0.50€ per installation and getting nothing in return? There are about 400 million people in the EU and lots of them are using WhatsApp - that is a lot of money Meta will be shelling out vs its current 0.
Presumably the money Meta would make from its own App Store would pay for that, if Meta chose to subsidise Whatsapp in that way.
 

Cobold

macrumors 6502a
Sep 16, 2014
694
1,006
Dieburg, Germany
What for? To pay 0.50€ per installation and getting nothing in return? There are about 400 million people in the EU and lots of them are using WhatsApp - that is a lot of money Meta will be shelling out vs its current 0.
The popularity of WhatsApp is why Meta also falls under the so called "gatekeeper" regulation in the EU and has to open WhatsApp to other messaging platforms.

 

Ctrlos

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2022
618
1,376
- You're not forced into the new app stores any more than you are forced to sideload on Android.

- The EU is basically trying to make the iPhone like the Mac. I assume everyone who has a problem with the EU opening up iOS also does not use any other form of open operating system otherwise its just hypocracy.
 

mrochester

macrumors 601
Feb 8, 2009
4,426
2,326
- You're not forced into the new app stores any more than you are forced to sideload on Android.

- The EU is basically trying to make the iPhone like the Mac. I assume everyone who has a problem with the EU opening up iOS also does not use any other form of open operating system otherwise its just hypocracy.
Wanting 2 different things to work in 2 different ways isn’t what I’d call hypocrisy.

Many people want the Mac to act like the Mac and the iPhone to act in a different way. They don’t want their iPhone to work like a Mac, and they especially don’t want it be to changed to work in a different way after they have purchased it.
 
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one more

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2015
4,340
5,384
Earth
They don’t want their iPhone to work like a Mac, and they especially don’t want it be to changed to work in a different way after they have purchased it.

Well, I would personally prefer iOS functionality to be as close to macOS as possible, and we have entire threads here of people dreaming of their iPads being able to run macOS. 😉

Again, the key thing to remember is that you al least have an option to do something. Whether or not you use it or how is, of course, your personal choice.
 

mrochester

macrumors 601
Feb 8, 2009
4,426
2,326
Well, I would personally prefer iOS functionality to be as close to macOS as possible, and we have entire threads here of people dreaming of their iPads being able to run macOS. 😉

Again, the key thing to remember is that you al least have an option to do something. Whether or not you use it or how is, of course, your personal choice.
Great, as long as users who don’t want the version of iOS with these changes has the option to not have it, then all is well. However, I’ve not heard anything that indicates these people will get that choice, i.e., there won’t be a version of iOS 17.4 in the EU both with and without the DMA changes so that the consumer gets to choose.

It should be like Windows where a user can choose to install an OS both with or without windows media player components. Let users choose whether to install a version of iOS that either allows and disallows 3rd party app stores.
 
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Ctrlos

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2022
618
1,376
Wanting 2 different things to work in 2 different ways isn’t what I’d call hypocrisy.

Many people want the Mac to act like the Mac and the iPhone to act in a different way. They don’t want their iPhone to work like a Mac, and they especially don’t want it be to changed to work in a different way after they have purchased it.
Its not really changing though. All the external app options are exactly that: optional, just like on the Mac.
 

contacos

macrumors 601
Nov 11, 2020
4,454
17,267
Mexico City living in Berlin
Presumably the money Meta would make from its own App Store would pay for that, if Meta chose to subsidise Whatsapp in that way.

"Mark Zuckerberg shot down the idea of Meta launching its own app store for iPhones: “I think it’s just going to be very difficult for anyone, including ourselves, to really seriously entertain what they’re doing there.”"

 
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