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Is there an advantage for expensive Bluray players?
- Thread starter MacBH928
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I was wondering something similar when shopping for a 4k Bluray player a few months ago
The strange part was the one of the cheapest 4K Bluray players @ $150 at Best Buy was the one I ended up getting, the Sony UBP-X700/M, it appeared to have all the same features that the $1k players had.
Not only that, it had a smaller footprint, allowing me to use my TV stand with non-standard shelf widths. This was the main reason I choose it, and all the features were a bonus.
The UI of the Sony UBP-X700/M isn't great, but it doesn't need to be for what I do with it. I don't even have it connected to the internet, I just play discs on it.
Here is it compared with a $1k Panasonic:
Compare - Best Buy
www.bestbuy.com
Carefully scrutinize features & benefits, warranty, etc. There's probably some differences that may or may not matter to you. Read reviews and objective reviewers will probably point out some things that one has and the other does not.
However, with that much difference ($60 vs $1000+), it's probably some build (maybe metal instead of plastic bits & pieces), maybe some select hardware inside is considered better than others and then maybe some brand name commanding a premium vs. perhaps some no-name). My guess is that a $60 Blu-ray player is probably going to conk long before a $1000 Blu-ray player. $60 is probably either no-name or brand known for cheap builds vs. the other. And so on. $1000 won't be buying you upwards of 16X better video quality to your TV or similar... though I would expect $1000 to be buying 4K blu ray playback while only $60 might be HD Blu Ray only. $1000 MIGHT be a blu ray recorder too.
Why is the phone you have better than some other company's phone "that does the same thing?" Why is the computer you have better than some other company's computer "that does the same thing?" Why is the car you drive better or not as good as cars that cost much less or much more than yours when "all cars do the same thing"? Etc.
All of that kind of thing applies with all home A/V equipment. For example, try seriously shopping speakers sometime if you want to see seemingly insane price variances for what might mostly look and sound about the same. Is a set of $50,000 speakers that much better than a set of $500 speakers? There's probably some bona-fide rationalization in those differences... and brand/reputation... and warranty... and life expectancy... and service quality... etc.
However, with that much difference ($60 vs $1000+), it's probably some build (maybe metal instead of plastic bits & pieces), maybe some select hardware inside is considered better than others and then maybe some brand name commanding a premium vs. perhaps some no-name). My guess is that a $60 Blu-ray player is probably going to conk long before a $1000 Blu-ray player. $60 is probably either no-name or brand known for cheap builds vs. the other. And so on. $1000 won't be buying you upwards of 16X better video quality to your TV or similar... though I would expect $1000 to be buying 4K blu ray playback while only $60 might be HD Blu Ray only. $1000 MIGHT be a blu ray recorder too.
Why is the phone you have better than some other company's phone "that does the same thing?" Why is the computer you have better than some other company's computer "that does the same thing?" Why is the car you drive better or not as good as cars that cost much less or much more than yours when "all cars do the same thing"? Etc.
All of that kind of thing applies with all home A/V equipment. For example, try seriously shopping speakers sometime if you want to see seemingly insane price variances for what might mostly look and sound about the same. Is a set of $50,000 speakers that much better than a set of $500 speakers? There's probably some bona-fide rationalization in those differences... and brand/reputation... and warranty... and life expectancy... and service quality... etc.
The 4K Blu player can be anything from a barebones digital transport to something that takes the place of other home theater gear. It's an integral part of a home theater system. Like a AVR, good 4k TV and decent speakers. Do not buy it for its streaming apps. Your TV has that, or a more updated Digital streaming receiver like a Apple TV 4K or a Roku.
Recommended reading.
4K Blu-ray Player Buying Guide: How to Choose a 4K Blu-ray Player - Wondershare Filmora 1/14/2022
Most go with a cheaper $329 Sony UBP-X800M2 as it plays a wide array of media and supports a lot of video/audio codecs. , but the $499 Panasonic DP-UB820 offer some features that help someone with a projector. Both are sold everywhere.
Most are looking for a unit that can just play the media with the least playback problems, and is quiet, you can't hear it when its spinning discs.
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Out of thw listed top 10 must-have features, I’d say BD-Live is defunct by now.
Some may find onboard Bluetooth a worthwile feature.
Likewise, separate HDMI outputs for audio and video might be useful, if the downstream audio system does not support 4K, for example.
Yes about the last Media that had BD-Live was the Sherlock Holmes pair (2009/2011). That article must have been a older one that was just updated for modern common features. A cheaper digital transport has a single HDMI output. Most better 4K players have the 2 HDMI outputs for legacy gear support or because you really need to split A/V because your not using a AVR or alike. Rather then trust all these recommended gear articles I just named two of them to avoid purchasing grief.
If it's a 4K UHD Blu Ray player then you're also looking at the codecs it supports Dolby Vision, HDR10 and HDR10+ they're not supported on all players.
And if you want built analogue phono audio outputs they tend to only be on some of the pricier players. I think Panasonic offer the lowests priced player with those.
And if you want built analogue phono audio outputs they tend to only be on some of the pricier players. I think Panasonic offer the lowests priced player with those.
It’s not necessary to have a player that supports HDR10+ unless your 4K tv is a Samsung in the States. That was Samsungs alternative to Dolby Vision, which majority of TVs support. Panasonic TVs not sold in the states, support HDR10+ as well as Dolby Vision. All TV sets support HDR10.
The Apple TV 4K doesn’t support HDR10+.
Looking for a player that supports all three is not really necessary is what I am implying.
An RCA plug is also commonly known as a phono plug or connector. So if you hear either term, they mean the same thing.
The spellings are largely interchangeable, though analog is usually used in relation to electronics, while analogue is often used in the sense something that bears analogy to something else. Outside the U.S., analogue prevails for all senses of the word.
From someone in the electronic field, you refer to electronic circuitry as either digital and analog, but the world outside technology got hooked using the other term outside the states.
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From the replies I understand the more expensive players is just requesting a high price for 1 or 2 features that might be missing in other players that some people would like to have.
actually the $60 are not no names , they are LG albeit not 4k .
As for speakers, I really have hard time people are going to pay a difference between $500 and $10K or $20K based on brand name alone. I just can't imagine the company building a speaker for $200 then say "lets charge $20K for it" with a straight face given they know the competition has equally good speaker on the market for $400 or so.
Is the HDR10+ and Dolby Vision yet another format war that my disc+player+tv have to support to gain any advantage from it?
actually the $60 are not no names , they are LG albeit not 4k .
As for speakers, I really have hard time people are going to pay a difference between $500 and $10K or $20K based on brand name alone. I just can't imagine the company building a speaker for $200 then say "lets charge $20K for it" with a straight face given they know the competition has equally good speaker on the market for $400 or so.
Is the HDR10+ and Dolby Vision yet another format war that my disc+player+tv have to support to gain any advantage from it?
$329 is not cheap. There are like $25 dvd players that basically do the same thing, spin a CD and read it with a laser. THAT is cheap. For additional $170 you can get a PS5 . The controller alone is valued at $70 and has like 800 SSD storage.
I don't think that's what you are getting here. Cheapest is rarely best in anything. There is very likely reasons why one you are looking at is $60 vs. another at $1000. Yes, brand name may play a part, but that's likely too much difference on brand name alone.
Read reviews of the $60 unit. What do they say? Why is it only $60? Reviewers will likely lay out whatever is making it cost so little.
In all A/V, there are elements of brand puffery (pricing by which label is on the thing) and legit hardware advantages. The old saying "you get what you pay for" can generally apply. I'm confident there will be very tangible benefits for a $1000 anything vs. a $60 anything.
Look where you are are- a website that basically revolves around Apple... pretty much never known for "lowest price" in anything. For example, Apple just recently offered a product that is a piece of cloth for $20. If you own something by Apple, you've paid up for it vs. buying something else "that does the same." What motivated you to pay up for whatever Apple stuff you have? Whatever the answer to that question applies to more companies than only Apple.
Your post reads like you are drawn to the cheapest blu ray player. There's almost certainly 1+ reason it is priced that low. You should dig into reviews to find out. It would be like being offered a new iPhone for only $60. First question to ask: "what's WRONG with it?" Second is probably: "is it stolen?" Third would be to make sure it even works. Etc.
I hopped on Amazon and the ONLY LG blu ray player I'm seeing there for $60 is a "renewed" one. First review claims it wouldn't play anything. Second review is titled "very hit or miss whether it will work." If that's the $60 one you are considering, better read some reviews. It looks like customer reviews that are more favorable are for "new"- not "renewed" blu ray players starting about twice that price. If you want 4K playback, customer reviews that appear more favorable for a new 4K player are starting about 3X that price.
Check Consumer Reports. They probably will point you to some thoroughly tested units that are very good. Read other professional reviews too. Spending some time doing some objective research should help you find a great blu ray player that you can enjoy for many years.
I have been using the Sony UBP-X800M2 for a couple of years, it's silent and reliable.
It does a good job when upscaling ordinary DVDs and the picture/sound quality when playing Blu Ray and 4K Ultra-HD is amazing. If you already invested in a high quality 4K TV/ATV/Sound system then it would be a shame if the Blu Ray player is the weakest link in the chain.
It does a good job when upscaling ordinary DVDs and the picture/sound quality when playing Blu Ray and 4K Ultra-HD is amazing. If you already invested in a high quality 4K TV/ATV/Sound system then it would be a shame if the Blu Ray player is the weakest link in the chain.
Those are for 4K UHD BD players with many operating/playback features you won't get using only a PS5.
As in all things there is a point of diminishing returns, the price point where you can't tell the difference in video/audio quality and you don't need the features of a higher priced machine.
Depends on the speakers and your hearing of course, but yes. The point of diminishing returns for me with speakers is higher than $500, but less than $50K.
Also separate HDMI inputs.
The best players will play just about anything you throw at it: Blu-ray, Blu-ray 3D, DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, SACD, and CD.
As well as:
HDMI input so you can use it as a switcher
Headphone jack with separate DAC
Build qualty
CD HDCD decoding
LAN Support (for DNLA streaming)
USB ports
Optical ports
RCA Ports
wired or wireless
firmware updates via internet
supports a wide range of resolutions and frame rates and choose the color space (Auto, RGB Video level,
RGB PC level, YCbCr 4:4:4, YCbCr 4:2:2, and YCbCr 4:2:0).
Dynamic Range Compression control
Parental control
DAC quality
build quality
Definitely. I have lost count of the number of cheap Blu-Ray players that I have eventually needed to discard, including a Playstation. Of the two Oppo Units which I purchased one has gone up in price even though I have had it for 9 years. The 4 year old one now sells for 2-4 times what I paid. They are built like tanks, from metal, ~10 pounds.
But it all depends upon what you want or need. If you can't hear the difference between a low quality and high quality DAC, don't see or don't want the absolute best video quality, don't need to play DVD-Audio or SACD, don't need a switcher, headphone jack, etc. then it doesn't make sense to pay for things you don't want.
Review of the discontinued Oppo 203 (I have both a 203 and 205):
Blu-ray Player Reviews
And a longevity review of an Oppo from a profession disc reviewer who really pounds his player:
Oppo Aces Longterm Reliability Test
Longterm reliability is a missing piece in most reviews of electronic products. A big missing piece. At Sound & Vision we work hard to deliver authoritative reviews. It takes me the better part of two weeks to review an AV receiver or full set of speakers. Then our audio technical editor...
For reviews of the higher quality players that may be available see:
Blu-ray Player Reviews
Definitely a difference between a budget Blu-ray and a midrange model, and while there’s diminishing returns, high end models do usually offer a bit more.
- build quality. Higher end models usually have heavier chassis, with better vibration dampening
- more connectivity. Not only dual hdmi, but sometimes multichannel analog audio out, too
- better DAC. This is useful if you have analog connections. you’ll see some devices advertise ESS Sabre (current forum favorite), or maybe Cirrus Logic or Wolfson, among others. I’ve heard poor DAC implementations and they do a great job at muffling dialogue. Some players offered dedicated stereo and multichannel DACs as well.
- more stable power supply. Here’s where you start getting into ultra premium hokeyness, where some manufacturers swear by toroidal power supplies and the like. stuff like this is supposed to help with timing and judder issues, as well as SNR, though I’m pretty sure there are other parts of the AV chain that matter more.
- speed. My 12 yr old Oppo BD-83 took 1/3 as long to load a blu-ray as the entry level Sony model at the time. 15 seconds to get to a menu was ok, 45 seconds was not.
btw, that Oppo is still working, and I’m kicking myself for not buying a BD-203 or 205 when I had the chance.
Lastly, if you can’t hear the difference between $500 and $5k for speakers, that’s great - you just saved your wallet from a fair amount of torture. Unfortunately, I can hear the difference between my entry level system and my nicer system clear as day - good thing I bought it when I did, don’t think I could justify today’s prices on it.
- build quality. Higher end models usually have heavier chassis, with better vibration dampening
- more connectivity. Not only dual hdmi, but sometimes multichannel analog audio out, too
- better DAC. This is useful if you have analog connections. you’ll see some devices advertise ESS Sabre (current forum favorite), or maybe Cirrus Logic or Wolfson, among others. I’ve heard poor DAC implementations and they do a great job at muffling dialogue. Some players offered dedicated stereo and multichannel DACs as well.
- more stable power supply. Here’s where you start getting into ultra premium hokeyness, where some manufacturers swear by toroidal power supplies and the like. stuff like this is supposed to help with timing and judder issues, as well as SNR, though I’m pretty sure there are other parts of the AV chain that matter more.
- speed. My 12 yr old Oppo BD-83 took 1/3 as long to load a blu-ray as the entry level Sony model at the time. 15 seconds to get to a menu was ok, 45 seconds was not.
btw, that Oppo is still working, and I’m kicking myself for not buying a BD-203 or 205 when I had the chance.
Lastly, if you can’t hear the difference between $500 and $5k for speakers, that’s great - you just saved your wallet from a fair amount of torture. Unfortunately, I can hear the difference between my entry level system and my nicer system clear as day - good thing I bought it when I did, don’t think I could justify today’s prices on it.
I think the bigger question you need to ask is whether disc media is going to be around for much longer. With everything going to streaming these days, the physical discs are disappearing at a rapid rate.
Used to be you could see an entire section of a store devoted to disc media. Now you're lucky if they have a bargain bin near a checkout aisle. Sure you can still find them online... but based on past precedence, the moment the stores stop stocking them is the moment they are about to disappear entirely.
Streaming has basically become the defacto media format. If you consider most people just rip the discs to their hard drive anyway, it's a no-brainer that the need for physical discs has come to an end.
Used to be you could see an entire section of a store devoted to disc media. Now you're lucky if they have a bargain bin near a checkout aisle. Sure you can still find them online... but based on past precedence, the moment the stores stop stocking them is the moment they are about to disappear entirely.
Streaming has basically become the defacto media format. If you consider most people just rip the discs to their hard drive anyway, it's a no-brainer that the need for physical discs has come to an end.
Physical discs are not disappearing. Name 5 "big" movies- any 5- that are only available on streaming and the disc option cannot be found and/or is not very likely coming soon after some "exclusivity" period has passed.
Yes, store shelves may be shrinking but retail stores in general are shrinking courtesy of "buy online." The same entities most killing retail stores- sometimes the online version of those retailers themselves- have virtual shelves full of anything and everything, including all kinds of stuff that can't be found on physical store shelves.
Streaming- like renting music- may in fact overtake... if not already- physical disc sales. However, again, if you own a disc, you actually own a movie. The studio that made the movie or any middleman who retailed the movie to you cannot come into your home and take the movie back at any time for any or no reason... and not even refund your purchase when they do so.
If you stream, you have- at best- a lifetime lease* to a movie which may not actually be for your lifetime, but for the lifetime a Studio (who is retaining ownership of what you think you've purchased) leaving that particular version in an online store. Yes, you can download a copy- and that is strongly advisable to increase your chances of ownership-like control- but even that has a DRM "key" owned by someone else. Should the source of the key go away and/or should there be some kind of shift in how the key can be applied, or a falling out between Studio and middleman E-tailer, even the local copy might not be "forever" playable.
Disc will play. Ripped digital version of the disc isn't DRM'd so it will play. If an Apple or similar revoked playback of DRM content for any reason at any point in the future, disc will still play, as will ripped version of the disc. If AppleTVs no longer play video content in iTunes/Movie apps and Airplay no longer slings it to TVs, disc can bypass the entire hardware ecosystem and ripped-from-disc version can be hooked up directly to TVs if desired and played- any TV, whether there is any Apple hardware in place or not.
Lastly, if one cares about quality/detail, disc is currently the very best consumer option for maximum quality picture and sound options. If you rip your own copy from a disc, YOU get to choose the quality of the result (including choosing the simpler option of exact same quality as on the disc), not a corporation choosing to pinch a file size very, very small so that streaming renters with relatively slow connections are likely to have a good experience too. Streaming tends to get you lowest common denominator "pinch" even if your own pipe is much faster than average.
Nothing against streaming- it is definitely immensely convenient to have your own "Blockbuster/Netflix" basically in your home at all times. Nothing against DRM- locking up streaming content is key to having streaming content. But ownership and renting is very different things and offer different benefits to a consumer. Choose wisely based on what is best for your own situation. Renting definitely has its place in the world and for some- is perfectly fine. Quality is "eye of the beholder" and plenty will argue for "good enough" when Apple offers that option instead of "full blu ray quality" (see arguments AGAINST lossless music until Apple decided to offer lossless).
The great danger is when we fool ourselves- or each other- into believing that renting and owning offers pretty much the SAME benefits to the buyer. As is, buying a stream is a kind of hybrid- a bit better than a pure rental but definitely inferior to true ownership. Again, choose wisely for yourself.
Yes, store shelves may be shrinking but retail stores in general are shrinking courtesy of "buy online." The same entities most killing retail stores- sometimes the online version of those retailers themselves- have virtual shelves full of anything and everything, including all kinds of stuff that can't be found on physical store shelves.
Streaming- like renting music- may in fact overtake... if not already- physical disc sales. However, again, if you own a disc, you actually own a movie. The studio that made the movie or any middleman who retailed the movie to you cannot come into your home and take the movie back at any time for any or no reason... and not even refund your purchase when they do so.
If you stream, you have- at best- a lifetime lease* to a movie which may not actually be for your lifetime, but for the lifetime a Studio (who is retaining ownership of what you think you've purchased) leaving that particular version in an online store. Yes, you can download a copy- and that is strongly advisable to increase your chances of ownership-like control- but even that has a DRM "key" owned by someone else. Should the source of the key go away and/or should there be some kind of shift in how the key can be applied, or a falling out between Studio and middleman E-tailer, even the local copy might not be "forever" playable.
Disc will play. Ripped digital version of the disc isn't DRM'd so it will play. If an Apple or similar revoked playback of DRM content for any reason at any point in the future, disc will still play, as will ripped version of the disc. If AppleTVs no longer play video content in iTunes/Movie apps and Airplay no longer slings it to TVs, disc can bypass the entire hardware ecosystem and ripped-from-disc version can be hooked up directly to TVs if desired and played- any TV, whether there is any Apple hardware in place or not.
Lastly, if one cares about quality/detail, disc is currently the very best consumer option for maximum quality picture and sound options. If you rip your own copy from a disc, YOU get to choose the quality of the result (including choosing the simpler option of exact same quality as on the disc), not a corporation choosing to pinch a file size very, very small so that streaming renters with relatively slow connections are likely to have a good experience too. Streaming tends to get you lowest common denominator "pinch" even if your own pipe is much faster than average.
Nothing against streaming- it is definitely immensely convenient to have your own "Blockbuster/Netflix" basically in your home at all times. Nothing against DRM- locking up streaming content is key to having streaming content. But ownership and renting is very different things and offer different benefits to a consumer. Choose wisely based on what is best for your own situation. Renting definitely has its place in the world and for some- is perfectly fine. Quality is "eye of the beholder" and plenty will argue for "good enough" when Apple offers that option instead of "full blu ray quality" (see arguments AGAINST lossless music until Apple decided to offer lossless).
The great danger is when we fool ourselves- or each other- into believing that renting and owning offers pretty much the SAME benefits to the buyer. As is, buying a stream is a kind of hybrid- a bit better than a pure rental but definitely inferior to true ownership. Again, choose wisely for yourself.
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Read the fine print. A lot of the lesser expensive 4K BR players merely up-convert HD to 4K. Some actually display/stream4K, but not HDR. Personally, if it can't display/stream true 4K HDR in at least HDR10 and Dolby Vision, then don't waste your money.
Just to add to your commments
All one has to do is look at a site that focuses against what coming out each week. A well know site is blu-ray.com. Here's a example of what is shipping this week. Be sure to hit the show all link below the images. You can also click Best Blu-ray Movie Deals, See All the Deals » near the top of site HTML page. While stores the last years have switched to more warehouse then in stores, every store where I am located has a sufficient amount of media for walk in buyers. (BB, Target), and you can always have it shipped to store or house. There are other online stores you can readily buy them from such as Amazon and others.
This week has several 4K UHD releases. The bit rate of the best owned 4K streaming peaks at 32 Mbps from movies anywhere/iTunes, which is less then a standard blu ray that runs up to 40 Mbps. A UHD 4K can scale up past 100 Mbps bit rate. Most of the normal 4k streaming you see online averages 11 Mbps, peak about 20 Mbps.
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The really cheap blue ray players tend not to last. The very expensive players tend to have lots of smart features from what I’ve seen.
A good compromise is to spend 150-200 euros on a player, to avoid the cheapest and tacky build quality but avoid overspending on stuff you don’t need.
A good compromise is to spend 150-200 euros on a player, to avoid the cheapest and tacky build quality but avoid overspending on stuff you don’t need.
The problem with reviews is that there is no one to trust. Reviews on retail sites are all fake, reviews on websites, blogs, youtube, are all sponsored and paid.
Currently the only one I kind of trust is TheWireCutter which is owned by NYTimes, a company that makes money by selling ads, and Consumer Reports which has a paywall. I even heard CR is affected by sponsors.
May ask what is the difference if its made from metal or plastic? how does this affect the bd drive or playback? I am assuming the drive itself is not affected by the body of the player being plastic or metal or even wood.
You are not wrong. Physical discs will be useless without the players. I am thinking of people who built a laserdisc collection or VHS collection. Now its problematic to get a working Laserdisc or VHS player, they might not be able to hook to a modern tvs that accept HDMI only.
The problem with physical media is the price. You pay easily for a new release $20 , currently Dune in 4K is $29. On iTunes it says $10 . For me I watch a movie once and thats it and $15 an hour is just too much , after that the movie basically becomes aa coffee coaster.
With digital I can also rent at reasonable $4-5 . Physical makes sense if the old model of video-rental stores still existed but completely buying a movie that I will watch once is just too much. I do tend to buy all time favorites or trilogies or series on physical.
One puzzling thing is that sometimes physical is cheaper than digital file, currently a double feature "watchmen+green lantern" is about $11 on Amazon meanwhile each movie is $10 on iTunes. Also BD Jurassic Park III is $10 and on iTunes its $15.