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Resolved Is there no way around missing Boot Menu for non-efi GPU's?

namethisfile

namethisfile

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 17, 2008
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Hey,

So, I have a GTX 1070 running in my Mac Pro right now. But, I also have an RX 460 on the side. Is there anyway I can use either of these cards on the cMP with a boot menu, so I can run MacOS on an external drive?

I tried pressing enter and a bunch of keys on a blank screen since I don't have a boot menu and couldn't boot my cMP to either my internal or external drive.

UPDATE:

I realized that I didn't have Nvidia web driver loaded into the external MacOS drive. Oops!

I will try again and will update.
 
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Anyway, I got it to boot to the external drive by pressing left arrow key and then pressing Enter, blindly.

With only two OS drives to choose from, it's not hard to do this in the dark on a blank screen by just using the arrow key and pressing Enter.

So, I guess that answers my own question. There is a way... it can be done... which is all I needed to know.... even, if it's not elegant...

Thanks for the reply. But, I consider my issue resolved in my own case. I don't really wanna complicate the whole process any further. I feel like using a non-efi Nvidia GPU in a Mac Pro already involves an added dependency or dependencies, and adding another third-party app like ReFInd and then disabling SIPS (I think it doesn't work with SIPS enabled from what I read) just adds another layer of dependancies just to do basic things (like, boot screens)... if that makes sense.
 
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So is rEFInd the best way to boot Windows on a Mac with no boot screen? Does it support booting MacOS on an APFS volume? Does it matter?
 
I think FileVault is important for a laptop, especially if you take it with you outside the home, but I don't think it's necessary for a cMP unless it's in a high traffic area like a business or area of high crime. While possible, it's not likely someone's going to break into your home and run off with a big old desktop tower. I still think it would be a good idea to use FileVault to get a disk drive ready for a new owner.
 
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MisterAndrew said:
So is rEFInd the best way to boot Windows on a Mac with no boot screen? Does it support booting MacOS on an APFS volume? Does it matter?
Click to expand...

Didn't see a single case that can use rEFInd without boot screen yet (I mean with display, but not use it blindly). Same as Cover. The theory may work, but don't know how to do it properly.

I tried the Cover method, but can't work it out.

APFS booting should be enabled by firmware level, most likely rEFInd is OK for that.
 
Hmm. I read Clover will kill a real Mac, so I'm definitely not trying that one. I've read people claiming they can boot into Windows without a boot screen, but I haven't read exactly how to do that.
 
MisterAndrew said:
Hmm. I read Clover will kill a real Mac, so I'm definitely not trying that one. I've read people claiming they can boot into Windows without a boot screen, but I haven't read exactly how to do that.
Click to expand...

Cover won't kill a Mac, I tried that. But if the user mess up the EFI partition, it can kill the OS. But a simple format+ reinstallation should fix it.
 
MisterAndrew said:
People in this forum claim Clover will destroy the EFI bootrom. https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/warning-clover-will-break-your-real-mac-use-with-caution.224933/
Click to expand...

It's not "Cover will destroy a real Mac" but "that special procedure may destroy a Mac's BootROM".

I installed Cover on my cMP multiple times, directly onto one of the HDD, it won't destroy the cMP (In fact, it's still there at this moment).

Also, for cMP, there is a firmware (means BootROM) restoration procedure (the required software can be download on Apple webpage) if you really accidentally go that far. Of course, no one want to do that. But at least we know there is a safety net, the fix should be relatively simple as well.
[doublepost=1506915758][/doublepost]Anyway, my understanding is that Cover is installed on the EFI partition (a ~200MB partition on your boot drive), but not directly mod the BootROM (I don't think any popular software can do that at this moment). For cMP, it's so easy for us to physically remove the boot drive if anything goes too wrong.
 
So is the best way to dual boot with a non-EFI GPU is to install a second video card that has EFI? Is there a single slot AMD card that can be flashed for a boot screen?
 
h9826790 said:
Are you with High Sierra or previous MacOS?
Click to expand...

10.13.1 beta
[doublepost=1506934923][/doublepost]I came across a flashed single slot HD 5770 card. Would that work okay as a second GPU? I know some people use a GT 120, but would it be better to have a second AMD card instead? Oh, maybe I could use an Apple Radeon HD 2600 XT.
 
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For HS, I think you really need a flashed card to swap between OS. I have't try it yet after upgraded to HS because my cMP has lots of videos encoding. But others report Windows Bootcamps apps not yet updated to support APFS partition. So, once boot to Windows, the user will stuck at there. The work around will be PRAM reset, or boot into other HFS partition and then choose APFS MacOS partition. Obviously both options are just work around, but not really good solution.

I haven't try BootChamp yet (Disable SIP should be required). If this work, I will prefer this more than install an extra single slot 5770 which, which occupy a slot unnecessarily and draw quite a lot of power.
 
Yeah, but wouldn't it just be at idle if it wasn't doing anything? It looks like both the HD 5770 and HD 2600 XT draw about 20 watts at idle. That's not so bad.
 
IMO, if you really need an extra monitor, then of course nothing wrong to use 5770 to drive it. However, if all you need is just that boot screen. Then 20W x 24 x 7 x365 x.... seems quite a lot of power for that few seconds.

Anyway, I agree single slot 5770 is a possible solution. Hope it work out.
 
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h9826790 said:
Didn't see a single case that can use rEFInd without boot screen yet (I mean with display, but not use it blindly).
Click to expand...

There is a fork of rEFInd that includes GPU init code. It requires a GPU with GOP-compatible firmware, which should be any current AMD or Nvidia and going back one generation or two. So theoretically everyone with a modern PC card in their Mac Pro could have boot screens.

If I had suitable hardware I'd try it out just for curiosity, but I don't even have a Mac Pro now. If you are interested for yourself, here are the relevant links. You will have to compile the fork yourself as there is no compiled version available for download.

http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/312706-clover-on-real-mac/page-3#entry2247898

I found his rEFInd fork here on SourceForge:
https://sourceforge.net/u/jief7/refind/ci/master/tree/
 
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Hey that's really interesting. I'll take a look at it, but I'm not the best with things like that. Maybe someone would be willing to put it together. :)
 
MisterAndrew said:
Does that work without a boot screen?
Click to expand...

Yes, I am using a non flashed R9 380 to test it.
[doublepost=1507013546][/doublepost]
ActionableMango said:
There is a fork of rEFInd that includes GPU init code. It requires a GPU with GOP-compatible firmware, which should be any current AMD or Nvidia and going back one generation or two. So theoretically everyone with a modern PC card in their Mac Pro could have boot screens.

If I had suitable hardware I'd try it out just for curiosity, but I don't even have a Mac Pro now. If you are interested for yourself, here are the relevant links. You will have to compile the fork yourself as there is no compiled version available for download.

http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/312706-clover-on-real-mac/page-3#entry2247898

I found his rEFInd fork here on SourceForge:
https://sourceforge.net/u/jief7/refind/ci/master/tree/
Click to expand...

Thank's for the detail info, will check it out.
 
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h9826790 said:
Confirmed "BootChamp + SIP disabled" works fine in 10.13.
Click to expand...

I got Windows 10 working fine, but now there are still 2 problems. Yes, I tried BootChamp and it works with SIP disabled to boot into Windows from MacOS, so leaving SIP disabled is problem #1. Problem #2 is that High Sierra converted my MacOS startup disk to APFS and so the Boot Camp control panel in Windows doesn't see it so I can't boot back into MacOS without a boot screen. The solution would appear to be to reformat my startup drive as HFS+, so then I would just have problem #1. Is there a way to disable and enable SIP without booting into recovery mode?

I've installed my HD 5870 in slot 3 for the boot screen since I have room for it now that I've had to take out my USB 3.1 card Windows doesn't like.
 
MisterAndrew said:
I got Windows 10 working fine, but now there are still 2 problems. Yes, I tried BootChamp and it works with SIP disabled to boot into Windows from MacOS, so leaving SIP disabled is problem #1. Problem #2 is that High Sierra converted my MacOS startup disk to APFS and so the Boot Camp control panel in Windows doesn't see it so I can't boot back into MacOS without a boot screen. The solution would appear to be to reformat my startup drive as HFS+, so then I would just have problem #1. Is there a way to disable and enable SIP without booting into recovery mode?

I've installed my HD 5870 in slot 3 for the boot screen since I have room for it now that I've had to take out my USB 3.1 card Windows doesn't like.
Click to expand...

1) what’s the actual problem is to keep SIP disable? It has zero function unless someone try to write the system files. All it does is just stop user modify the system, or even stop us load the unsigned kext etc. For most Mac, it’s a good idea to keep it on, especially those believe “it just work” users. But for a self upgraded cMP. SIP give us more trouble than benefit in general. There was no SIP until El Capitan. Keep SIP disable, same as 10.6.8, any real world problem you really have?

2) correct, that’s why I suggest use “BootChamp + SIP” disable method to avoid the boot screen requirement. And NO, SIP status can only be changed in recovery partition.
 
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