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Discussion in 'Web Design and Development' started by switters, Aug 18, 2006.
Thanks a lot for your responses!!
Depends on what you get i guess. To be honest, i think the pricetable doesn't look so good, the allignment is out of place. But it could be that you just quickly made the table without paying to much attention at it, maybe you can show some of your work to get a good idea of what you do?
Seems about 500-1000 low, from what I have paid/worked with in the past, but it all depends who the client is and where you are, I would guess.
How many hours do you think you will have invested in it?
it's hard to say not having sat in on the meetings, but it's defiantly not too high.
If you are doing custom work, your estimate is too low. If you rely on templates, then you're okay. Another unknown factor is the quality of your work and business ethic. My guess is that you have little experience, else you wouldn't need to ask advice. If that's the case, then your prices are probably okay considering your experience level.
Another consideration is where you are located and who your client is. If you are in a competitive area but your client is corporate, or vis-versa, that will affect the pricing.
Bottom line is that it's hard to help you with so many unknown variables. That being said, there is no way in hell that I'd do that amount of work for that price! I'd probably charge $1500 - $2000 just for the video and Flash. What would I charge for the total project? 10 to 20K depending on who the client is. Maybe more if it's a well known corporate client, or a pain-in-the-ass client.
Charging by the hour is better i think, clients tend to abuse your time if you dont.
---------She thought the original was to expensive for her-----------
Thanks a lot for all of your responses.
Well, the client is not a corporation, she's a jazz singer.
She has 2 businesses, entertainment and school assemblies with a cast of actors and singers.
Location is in NJ.....I am in Brooklyn NY.....
I readjusted her estimate, knocked down around $500 and deleted a couple of things as well, work wise.
I know that it's kind of cheap, but I am in Grad School right now and I need the money.
The question that I have is, am I getting ripped off here??
Please let me know; I truly value all opinions in this wonderful forum.
If this is not a general pricing structure (and it's just for one client) why are you going to the trouble of doing a pricing table to hand to the client?
Just give the price. People will always want a cheaper service. You're competing with people who work for free out there - but remember that while you know you're a relative nobody in this field, she doesn't, or shouldn't.
Besides which, in situations like this you're better doing an hourly rate - or at least saying to yourself "This is what my time is/should be worth" and working out roughly how many hours it will take you. Then add around a third extra (it will always take longer) and mail the price.
I'd say you're too low. I agree with the chap several posts back that $10-$20K might be more like it, if you were dealing with a corporate client. As you're not, I'd seriously still consider charging somewhere towards $5K, if you think she'll pay that much.
The other way of looking at it, as the guy above says, is 'how long is this gonna take me, and how much should I charge per hour?"
I'm no programmer, but even using templates and such, there's gotta be a at least a week's work there, no? If you make that 40 hours, you should be charging $50/hour at least, so there's 2 grand...
As other have already said, without seeing the quality of your work or knowing the level of competence with which you engage your clients it is difficult to say exactly how much one should charge for the work, however, considering simply the fact that you feel capable of doing a project of this nature I would have to say your quote is much too low.
Even if your experience is poor and you have not yet learned how to interact with your clients in a professional manner that amount of work is worth much more.
An experienced designer would charge some 10x what you are quoting. Now your work may not be worth that just yet, but even at the lowest level of experience you are charging too little for such a large project.
If your client truly feels it is too much (rather than simply doing due diligence in her negotiating) then you should encourage her to scale back her plans. You could encourage her to engage your services simply for the initial website with anticipation of the grander add-ons coming later should she be pleased with your work and having the funds to compensate you fairly.
Dude, Kevin Nealon kicks arse.......
My work is pretty good man.
(some pages here the client did himself other I did) The better pages I did, offcourse.... ;-)
My work is above average.
Mr. Nealon, I feel slighted now; I feel like I am being ripped off. I will ake your advice and try to scale back the work.
Have a great day
Tell the client straight. If she wants a 'cheap' website then that is what she will get. A cheap looking website. But if she wants the bells and whistles which takes time and skill, then those things cost.
If she doesnt like it and she's grumbling too much, do you really need a client like that, chances are she'll never be happy with what you do and you'll end up doing the thing over and over and over....
Draw a line in the sand and dont move it, by reducining your price at her whim, you only make yourself look sill (why couldnt you have charged this in the first place she'l wonder and then she'll push and push for more). Clear defining boundary, this is the price, but tell here "if your willing to pay the total up front I'll give you 5/10% off " That's the only deal I would do with a client like that..... Dont devalue your own time because when you do, it's a downwards spiral.
I don't want to offend, but to be honest, if I paid that much money for those deisgns you posted I'd be a little dissapointed.
I believe your second price is just right based off the designs you posted. It's hard to tell which is better than the other. I noticed that for the most part you have one would-be style and at least one of the pages confused the heck out of me in terms of flow. However, if this is all your work then $1500 is good so long as you do not have to spend months on it.
Your potential client already took the ball and now she has you. At first it was a business person who needed to market herself and find a web presence. She was at your mercy. She hopefully saw your work and then asked for your services, or asked for your services, saw your work, and decided to continue. Whichever the case, she had to have seen your work and knows what you can do. She was pleased with what you could do and asked you for a price. You gave her one. Until that point you were the designer and she was the client. She may know what she wants and may be artistic enough to think of something that you can do, but she needs you. You should never enter into any agreement and decide to take less because you are desperate. It was at that point that you were on the verge of becoming her bitch. Then she knocked you down and you then became her bitch. Congrats on that one. No offense, but people like that jazz singer piss me off. She is making money doing her thing and then wants to talk you down. You need to send a friend to her for lessons and when she quotes a price have them take 40% off the top. If you think about it in those terms then she deserves to get a website that is 60% of what you can do. (i'd eliminate the unnecessary animation)
Do you get the drift?
So are you charging too much at $2500 for a woman who intends to use this site for both of her businesses to make money and market herself even more? No! Are you charging too little for a woman who intends to use the website as a marketing tool for web presence and to increase her cliental? YES! Should you take the job? YES, because you need the money and in the long run you can market yourself more if you had another client under your belt. But for future reference, if someone wants a site for fun then ok, lower that price. If someone is going to make money off of it, then look to see what they, how much you think they take in, and then charge the going rate or a competitive rate--enough to get you the job. If she has 10 students a week at $30 per student, 6 days a week she isn't doing bad. If she is teaching jazz singing and such I doubt she is cheep. I know my guitar teacher was expensive as all hell so it'd be a similar type of work I'd guess.
Don't take what I say as offensive. I think you cheated yourself, but I think she is to blame. I don't think you wanted to, but it's just as hard to pass up $1500 as it is to pass up $2500 so I do not blame you.
I don't want to hurt your feelings so after reviewing your pages I am just going to suggest doing some research on usability.
You might want to start at http://www.usability.gov/
PD: way too cheap! It is just a static page so it shouldn't be very expensive, but for $1500 I wouldn't even grab the mouse for that.
By the way, how are you planning on making the forms? Php maybe? How are they going to contact, is the default mail application going to pop up or are you going to connect to a mail server to send the form, or is it going to be stored in a database? All that is very relevant for price and host selection.
Feelings are not hurt. Usability standards I need help on. Mr. Nielson could def. help me out.
A btter link for usability
As far as my designs go, I have confidence in them. I am self-taught and I've been doing this for 3 years.
I will also start studying for my masters in Communication Design at Pratt institute in NY/NY.
I've been getting work so I must be doing something right....."low-balling" perhaps.
I also give myself credit for having the balls to put my links up there; whereas some of the 'critics' don't even have a link to a site in their profile.
Most importantly, I got the contract. I scaled back the work and settled on $1400.
I appreciate all of the responses, the flattering ones and the not so flattering ones.
CRITIQUE AWAY IF YOU WANT:
Coming from some one who does have links in his signature I'm gonna say chill out.
Maybe some of the comments were a little sharp, but all their area saying is you have a lot of room for improvement.
Doing this on your own is very admirable, getting paid for you were is something you should be proud of. But having said that, your work is very basic...and it some cases sub par. But keep in mind, everyone has to start somewhere.
Every designer has heard "your work sucks, your not cut out for design" more than once in their careers, and they'll here it again.
The key is to take these comments and advice with a big grain of salt, and improve your work based on them. Then one day you'll start hearing it less and less.
To sum this up, keep your nose to the grind stone.
And trust us, every designer looks back at work theyve done a few years ago and cringes. Not that it was bad, but like fine wine, you will continue to improve with time.
Yep that's what I was trying to say, but you did it far more eloquently.
So you cut model shots out of adds for Diesel and DKNY and put them in your own banners for Diesel and DKNY that you then sold to OutQ.com? And you admit to it in the summary for the banners?
Can you do that?
Uh, no. Copyright would belong to the model, not to mention the photographer and, oh yeah, the company who paid both the model and the photographer. Unless the image was paid for at a royalty-free site, using other photographer's artwork sets the designer and the client for a if the appropriate corporate counsel gets involved.
Are you telling me that you are charging that kind of money for static HTML pages? Maybe I'm getting ripped off! I charge $200-$300 for a website with a custom PHP backend.
I'm not saying your prices are too high, I'm just saying that maybe mine are too low.
Hard to know without understanding the full scope of your project. It's like, Hey guys, I bought a car, the tranny was $300, the radiator was $150, the seats were $65 each and the body was $750. So, what kind of parts are these, what kind of quality is it, what kid of car are you building.
The only person who can know if the prices are right is you. I've done web design for years and you come to a point when you know how long everything is going to take you. I could take you 3 hours to create a static page as it could take someone else 15 mintues. It's a service and service industry is based directly upon the servicepersons skillset.
I wouldn't do a site that cheap though.