Is this the right motivation for buying a Mac (iMac)?

[Bad Paper]

I advise you to ignore those people who tell you not to install virus software, Sir Loin Steak. OSX is just another flavor of unix, and unix isn't perfect.

There are two parts you can update on an iMac: the memory and the hard drive. You cannot upgrade the processor or graphics card, so make sure you buy the model you want.

When upgrading the memory, be aware that the iMac uses laptop RAM sticks instead of desktop sticks. The hard drive, however, is a desktop model.

 

[numbersyx]

Safety, stability and no need for Anti virus are only three things that are superior on the Mac. There is a lot lot more that will delight you when you make the switch.

There is a book by David Pogue called Switching to the Mac - take a read (very nicely written) and you will get a real look at how things work on OS X.

 

[rylin]

I advise you to ignore those people who tell you not to install virus software, Sir Loin Steak. OSX is just another flavor of unix, and unix isn't perfect.

Rather, consider it a calculated risc.
At one point or another, viruses will show up on the Mac platform.
It's not today, it may not be this year, but eventually it'll happen.

As always, best practices apply.
OS X's built in firewall and rather closed-by-default state are good things.
The security model is another.

Realtime scanning isn't worth it ATM unless you're in an office environment and want to help protect your colleagues.
On-demand scanning scheduled to run every day or week is another thing, and at this point in time, the free clients are easily as good as the proprietary ones.

Personally, I don't want to waste 5-20% resources on constantly scanning for viruses or malware -- I just make sure to use software I trust not to have been tampered with, and I use TimeMachine for backups.

The important stuff on my computers is photos, videos and documents I've written (be they code, articles, guides or technical specifications).

If my applications get tampered with (the definition of a virus is that it self replicates), I can easily reinstall both the OS and them and be back up in no time at all.

If I were to install something from an unreliable source, I can see any eventual trojans running in Activity Monitor.

I also subscribe to various security related mailinglists (part of my job) to keep track of what exploits are out there and the status of the fixes.

Like I said, it's a calculated risk -- but right now I can't be bothered paying $100 - $400 for having realtime virus scanning (5-20% of the computer's purchase price).

When viruses start popping up and the threat is more credible I might change my attitude, but right now it's not necessary to run antivirus on the Mac.

 

[Jethro70]

Not exactly sure where to put htis, but why not here in the iMac section?

I've had PCs for as long as I can remember - certainly since the early 1990s. I have taken them apart, rebuilt them, added and subtracted components and have been happy doing this.

I have also just about accepted that the damn things fall over now now and then, that they get viruses and do other unstable things that I am now fed up with!

While it may not be a fault of the PC (currently using XP SP2), my partner and I have both fallen foul of internet fraud - one involving a straightforward theft from a bank account, the other a PayPal theft of password (I think). Indeed, it may be that I simply haven't taken enough care to protect the PC in the first place that has led to these events.

Either way, I am desperate for STABILITY! Would I be barking up the wrong tree in thinking that a Mac (and I love the look of the iMac 2.8ghz 24"), would make me a happy user?

I surf a lot, use eBay a lot, buy stuff. I also use a computer for spreadsheets (excel) and basic office-type things. I have heaps of photos of the family which I like to edit/improve as well, and a few films of the same thing.

Getting an iMac or a Mac of any kind would be a big leap for me - not least the weird mouse thing!

What you think of my motivation? Ill-considered or smart?

Many thanks all for reading.

Loin

I switched to a Mac mini four years ago, and while I love the overall smoothness of OS X, it is still a computer -- which means there is still the possibility of frustration. While my mini has never had a full system freeze-up in 4 years (outstanding!), I have had Apple applications like Safari and Mail crash on numerous occasions, as well as MS Word and Excel.

My advice would be to max out the RAM on whatever Mac you go with. When I bought my mini, 256 MB was standard, so I went with 512 MB -- and now wish I had maxed it out to 1 GB from the start, as it is very slow opening most applications. If you go with the 2.8 / 24" iMac, max it out to 4 GB RAM.

If you like having a two-button scroll mouse (as I do), there's no reason to downgrade to a one-button model. My mouse works great with the mini, and I even configured it so Expose engages when I press the scroll wheel.

One of the biggest selling points of Macs is definitely the lack of viruses. One reason why I refuse to go back to all PC's, but rather prefer to exist in a world where I run both configurations. I see value in each, and definitely would not discourage someone from giving Mac a try -- especially if you are fed up with PC's. But just realize that it isn't going to solve all of the worlds problems... 😉

 

[Terry Smith]

I used to hate Apple

For no good reason other than raw discrimination. I have been in the IT solutions industry for almost 20 years, and thought they were zealot based standards, and overpriced, and for the graphic weinies.

So... I take it all back. I got into video editing, and found that a similarly configured MacPro was the same (if not cheaper) than a Dell workstation, and I was lacking a little 'gee whiz' from over 7 years of XP. So I jumped, and set aside an entire long weekend to get it set up, install the updates and the drivers and read my manual, get the wireless up... the standard routine for anyone who has bought a new PC.

Problem was, that after 15 minutes, it was done. it was the most anticlimactic new machine I ever had, JUST WORKED. Was able to get started installing apps and whatnot almost immediately. Don't think I was even able to move to second coffee.

Secondly, I own a small business of about 20 staff, and as the resident IT guru, spent about 2 or more hours a day tinkering with all the PC's, Laptops and whatnot... (standard laments: can't print, can't get on the network, can't do this, won't do that, virus, spam blechhh!) and was more than frustrated. So I bought a Macbook for the office to see how it would work in a business environment... guess what? IT JUST WORKS!

So now I have converted (easy to make the decisions when you own the joint) almost all the machines here at the office to Apple, and guess what WE JUST WORK! The machines don't crash, they don't need to be rebooted, the wireless is flawless, the Time Capsule is a joy and a breeze, everything is stable stable stable.

So if you are in the market for something that just allows you to get some work done, and stop the constant fiddling and tweaking and all that crap... and just want it to work... buy a Mac.

Be happy to expand endlessly (I don't hate Microsoft in any way) if you want with any questions... am officially much smarter than I look these days!

They just work!

TMS

 

[Terry Smith]

Oh yeah... they aren't perfect. I do hate that mighty mouse they come with

I know people are really particular to it... so I just use any old mouse I have lying about - and it works great! (and for the record, my favourite mouse is still the old Microsoft mouse that looked a little like a spermatoza.)

 

[kurosov]

Despite what alot of anti mac people say, os x does infact support and use 2 button mice.

Even the mighty mouse has a left and right click button. Although you cannot see them they are there. It even has the side "squeeze" buttons.

 

[Sir Loin Steak]

ok, ok, that's it! I'm convinced it's what I, 1)need, 2) desire and 3), want and 4) want.

So that's five good reasons, innit?

And look ,I just ordered an iPod Classic fom Apple, for better or worse. We need something for our car's old radio/cassette that has a jack for an mp3 player, so I've bitten the bullet in the expectation that should an iMac happen along in the next month or two that I can work the kit together.

Sounds like I'm doing the right thing.

 

[DoFoT9]

ok, ok, that's it! I'm convinced it's what I, 1)need, 2) desire and 3), want and 4) want.

So that's five good reasons, innit?

And look ,I just ordered an iPod Classic fom Apple, for better or worse. We need something for our car's old radio/cassette that has a jack for an mp3 player, so I've bitten the bullet in the expectation that should an iMac happen along in the next month or two that I can work the kit together.

Sounds like I'm doing the right thing.

sounds perfect 🙂 you will love it!

 

[Slrman]

RichardI, I see you have a CH FlightStick. I also have one that I had for a PC. Is there anything special I need to do to get this to work correctly? I have tried it on a cople of flight simes (XPlane, FlightGear, and SkyFighters 1945) and it didn't seem right in any of them.

(Sorry about a thread mini-hijack)

Thanks,

 

[Sir Loin Steak]

I would just add that a few years ago I tried downloading Red Hat Linux and installing that on a (then) win98 platformed pc. It was ok, I just didn't develop that further - bit lost on my own.

At the time I was working in an IT support dept. that was running Sun OS, so I'm not a total n00b to the kernal, but boy oh boy, if I had NO experience of anything but PC I fink I would be extremely wary of Macs.

As it is, I think I'm lucky to have read enough stuff on the subject (unixy type stuff) to think that if YOU guys rate Macs, then I'm happy to take the plunge.

 

[Terry Smith]

Cool if you need to Unix yourself up...

But I found eventually you just don't need to. I was a huge DOS nerd, and was always going in to twiddle with .ini and .sys files and then the registry... trust me when I say this (and it is echoed up front somewhere) there will be about two weeks of frustration that you can't (or certainly don't need to) fiddle to your hearts content.

The things just work... that is my mantra. Let me describe Utopia as this:

Bought a new Macbook Pro yesterday for a new staff member. Turn it on. Enter some simple questions, and presto!

it finds the wireless network! it Finds the Backup (Time Capsule) it finds all the printers on the network! it goes and updates itself! It finds the scanners on the network! It Immediately hooks up at 140mb internet. (wireless!). It starts backing up immediately!

Boom! Again... 15 minutes and the guy is working (well Office takes a bit to install and configure). Oh wait! Did I say it connects to MobileMe and syncs? yes! Boom, straight to the dudes iphone!

Two weeks of awkwardness, and a zillion $$$ in saved IT support costs! Well that and the fact that you will start to sound like me!

I will bet you $20 (Canadian) that you NEVER have to think about UNIX as a command line to get your machine running. NEVER.

Enjoy. They just work.

 

[Terry Smith]

Oh yeah, I know the mouse does all of that...

I just hate the way the thing feels in my hand. But it's cool if you like it! Personal preference, that's all.

 

[-Ryan-]

Post deleted

 

[Sir Loin Steak]

Here is the spec of the iMac currently on sale in a large well-known compouter retailer here in the uk:

Full specification

Processor Type Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor speed (2.8 GHz)
RAM Memory 2048 MB
Hard Disk Capacity 320 GB
Combo Drive NO
CD ROM YES
CD ROM speed 24 x
DVD Drive YES
DVD Drive speed 8 x
CD Rewriter YES
CD Recording speed 24 x
Graphics type ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO
Graphics card memory 256 MB
3D accelerator graphics NO
Sound Card NOT SPECIFIED
Speakers Included NO
Modem NO
No of USB connections 3
No of Firewire Sockets 1
Colour ALUMINIUM
Weight 11.5 kg
Height 520 mm
Width 569 mm
Depth 207 mm
Monitor Tube Size 24 inches
Detachable Speakers NO

If I were to NOT wait for the upgraded version of this Mac, how much more might I have to add to it to bring it to a spec that I might be happy with (ie, high end graphics/memory etc.)?

 

[kurosov]

Here is the spec of the iMac currently on sale in a large well-known compouter retailer here in the uk:

Full specification

Processor Type Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor speed (2.8 GHz)
RAM Memory 2048 MB
Hard Disk Capacity 320 GB
Combo Drive NO
CD ROM YES
CD ROM speed 24 x
DVD Drive YES
DVD Drive speed 8 x
CD Rewriter YES
CD Recording speed 24 x
Graphics type ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO
Graphics card memory 256 MB
3D accelerator graphics NO
Sound Card NOT SPECIFIED
Speakers Included NO
Modem NO
No of USB connections 3
No of Firewire Sockets 1
Colour ALUMINIUM
Weight 11.5 kg
Height 520 mm
Width 569 mm
Depth 207 mm
Monitor Tube Size 24 inches
Detachable Speakers NO

If I were to NOT wait for the upgraded version of this Mac, how much more might I have to add to it to bring it to a spec that I might be happy with (ie, high end graphics/memory etc.)?

Well that setup uses the mid range imac graphics atm. The only graphics upgrade available at the moment would be the "with 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS"
found in the top range 3.06GHz imac. THe model you are looking at there can have this graphics upgrade added if you buy from the apple online store though.

I do suggest you buy direct from apple rather than another retailer, because of the larger choice. RAM is always the big drawback on any machine and can be upgraded anytime by yourself, so no point paying for apple to do that.

That graphics card should be fine as is unless you are running a few top end windows games on it though.

 

[mzd]

Here is the spec of the iMac currently on sale in a large well-known compouter retailer here in the uk:

Full specification

Processor Type Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor speed (2.8 GHz)
RAM Memory 2048 MB
Hard Disk Capacity 320 GB
Combo Drive NO
CD ROM YES
CD ROM speed 24 x
DVD Drive YES
DVD Drive speed 8 x
CD Rewriter YES
CD Recording speed 24 x
Graphics type ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO
Graphics card memory 256 MB
3D accelerator graphics NO
Sound Card NOT SPECIFIED
Speakers Included NO
Modem NO
No of USB connections 3
No of Firewire Sockets 1
Colour ALUMINIUM
Weight 11.5 kg
Height 520 mm
Width 569 mm
Depth 207 mm
Monitor Tube Size 24 inches
Detachable Speakers NO

If I were to NOT wait for the upgraded version of this Mac, how much more might I have to add to it to bring it to a spec that I might be happy with (ie, high end graphics/memory etc.)?

just a few notes on this. the graphics card is very much a dedicated, 3D accelerated card. not sure why they put a NO there. it just is not user-upgradable. also speakers are included. they are built in (not external speakers). but you get a great sound out of them. full stereo. it also doesn't mention that the CD/DVD drive is a super drive i.e. both a CD writer and a DVD writer.

 

[Sir Loin Steak]

Hmm, we're talking PC World here (www.pcworld.co.uk).

I've had a good look at the Apple home page, and really feel that I would buy new from them. They have a store in my town, and THAT would be one big lovely shopping trip!

More to the point, I want to buy the best I can now. I don't want to be pussing footing about with trying to source memory or graphics cards if the one in the shop (ie PC World) is not at the standard I would expect.

At least on the apple site you can upgrade quite easily at the checkout.

Same goes for buying on eBay... I'm seeing stuff that appears to be 'the same' as apple supply, but on closer examination of the description I find that goods are 'shop-soiled' and 'slightly scratched' on the back, hence the (slightly!) lower price.

No, I'd rather pay the right price for the proper deal.

I think I am going to need advice on peripherals, such as getting wireless internet set up (is, what hardware to buy), and whether I can use my HP Officejet 6210 all-in-one with a Mac (driver issue?), same goes for an Iomega HDD I use on this pc.. I'm keen to have wireless printing as well, and a few other bits and bobs.

In fact, the only thing stopping me going out an buying the 3.06ghz iMac is the fact that everyone is saying wait for the 'upgrade', but noone sees to know when that's coming. Not a criticism, that, btw.

 

[schizoidwoman]

Hmm, we're talking PC World here (www.pcworld.co.uk).

I've had a good look at the Apple home page, and really feel that I would buy new from them. They have a store in my town, and THAT would be one big lovely shopping trip!
.

The other thing to keep in mind is aftercare. I have had nothing but good experiences with aftercare from Apple, who replaced my MB for a small cosmetic issue just outside the 14 day return window, though I would've expected (and been happy with) a repair. In all honesty, although I know some people have had far less satisfactory experiences than my own when dealing with Apple, the ratio of satisfied to dissatisfied seems exceptionally high.

I can't comment on PC World and this is obviously a generalisation but the aftercare provided by Apple does seem to outshine that provided by other major electronic retailers who often seem to have the attitude that once you've bought a machine, any problems are your problems and nothing to do with them!

I believe your printer should work (though I am by no means an expert on printers) according to this:

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06b/18972-18972-238444-12019-3328084-391210-391212-391213.html

The HDD I can't comment on and all I can say with regard to wireless is that I use a Speedtouch 585 and it works like a dream.

That shopping trip to buy the iMac is wonderful, it's like Christmas!

 

[kurosov]

Hmm, we're talking PC World here (www.pcworld.co.uk).

I've had a good look at the Apple home page, and really feel that I would buy new from them. They have a store in my town, and THAT would be one big lovely shopping trip!

More to the point, I want to buy the best I can now. I don't want to be pussing footing about with trying to source memory or graphics cards if the one in the shop (ie PC World) is not at the standard I would expect.

At least on the apple site you can upgrade quite easily at the checkout.

Same goes for buying on eBay... I'm seeing stuff that appears to be 'the same' as apple supply, but on closer examination of the description I find that goods are 'shop-soiled' and 'slightly scratched' on the back, hence the (slightly!) lower price.

No, I'd rather pay the right price for the proper deal.

A few points.

-NEVER buy from PC world. They as a store have target sales they must meet and take any chance they can to sell something that is unsiutable for your needs as long as they can tick it off their quota. The staff there do not have any training either and tend to make things up or talk nonsense.

-RAM upgrades on an imac are even easier to do than a regular pc, It is very easy. You can also easily find out the type of ram you need from this forum, saving you over £50.

-Graphics cards in an iMac cannot be upgraded by the user, this is a decision that must be made at the time of purchase due to the all in one nature of the imacs.

-Setting up a wireless network imo is alot less hassle on a mac than on a pc. you probably will have no issues with this. Although i have known people having issues with services such as BT because they generally have their own technicians doing the setting up rather than the user, those guys usually have no experience with a mac.
Even had a friend enquire over the phone to be told he has to "upgrade" to xp on his mac for it to work with his BT internet. Another example of untrained monkeys getting jobs they are not capable of doing.

-Ebay, being primarally aimed at selling secondhand goods will have alot of non new systems. Macs in general are the same price anywhere though so there is no downside from buying direct from apple.

-If you do want to save some more money you could always buy a refurb from the apple online store, they appear on the site as they are available so keep checking. They also come with everything a new machine would, including warranty and have around 15% off the price.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

The only graphics upgrade available at the moment would be the "with 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS" found in the top range 3.06GHz imac.

512

 

[sneezymarble]

I love OSX. If you have the money, like the aesthetic, and the OS, get a Mac. You'll love it. I just have to say one thing, I've been using and building computers for 15 years now. Untill the last year and a half I've exclusively used Windows and I've never had a virus. Not once. And, I've never used any anti-virus software. I'm inclined to think that the virus problems with respect to windows are a function of the way users operate in the OS environment and the fact that market penetration for Windows is several times that of Mac's OS. Which is just to say, people are careless and people mostly write Windows based viruses.

After using OSX for about a year and a half there's nothing about it that strikes me as significantly more secure than Windows. What it has going for it at the moment is that there simply are not as many naughty programs targeted for Mac OS machines as there are for Windows machines. The obvious reason for that is the market share of the OSs. So, yes, I suppose it is more secure. But, no, it's not so much a property of the OS as it is a property of the market in which it operates.

When Apple's OS gets larger install base you can be pretty sure that the "infection" rate of Macs will go up. I'd be willing to bet that the proportion of Macs infected by a clever virus, were one spread around right now that specifically targeted Macs, would be quite a bit higher than the proportion of, say Vista PCs, or even PCs in general, by virtue of the fact that the vast majority of Mac users don't use any virus protection at all.

 

[Goldenbear]

...Untill the last year and a half I've exclusively used Windows and I've never had a virus. Not once. And, I've never used any anti-virus software...

Quick, go buy a lottery ticket, 'cause you're the luckiest person I know! 😉

I'd like to mention a few things my friends and I have experienced, relative to security on Windows vs OS X. Unfortunately, it's nothing like your experience 🙁

A friend of mine decided to wipe his hard drive and reinstall Windows one day. In the 10 minutes it took for him to download the latest version of his anti-virus and anti-spyware, his computer got infected. Oh, he's been very happily using a MBP for the past couple of years 😀

Another friend did a test one time at work, to illustrate to a co-worker just how large of a problem Windows security has become. He took a freshly imaged computer with the anti-virus software disabled (at least, I think it was disabled) and connected it to the internet. No applications were launched. In less than 5 minutes, it was infected with all types of malware.

My old PC got infected with various malware, even though I religiously ran AVG (free version) and various other anti-malware products.

Every once in a while for kicks, I take a look at the log for my firewall software. It lists literally hundreds of attempts per day of people scanning for the usual open ports that most Windows configurations contain.

Finally, the security model of OS X is far superior to XP. In general, software cannot be installed without the user consciously granting permission and entering the admin password. So no, while not perfect, OS X is definitely not "just as susceptible" to infection as Windows.

 

[kurosov]

I love OSX. If you have the money, like the aesthetic, and the OS, get a Mac. You'll love it. I just have to say one thing, I've been using and building computers for 15 years now. Untill the last year and a half I've exclusively used Windows and I've never had a virus. Not once. And, I've never used any anti-virus software.

If you never ran anti-virus software how do you know you never had a virus?

Not every virus outright kills a machine.

 

[sneezymarble]

Quick, go buy a lottery ticket, 'cause you're the luckiest person I know! 😉

I'd like to mention a few things my friends and I have experienced, relative to security on Windows vs OS X. Unfortunately, it's nothing like your experience 🙁

A friend of mine decided to wipe his hard drive and reinstall Windows one day. In the 10 minutes it took for him to download the latest version of his anti-virus and anti-spyware, his computer got infected. Oh, he's been very happily using a MBP for the past couple of years 😀

Another friend did a test one time at work, to illustrate to a co-worker just how large of a problem Windows security has become. He took a freshly imaged computer with the anti-virus software disabled (at least, I think it was disabled) and connected it to the internet. No applications were launched. In less than 5 minutes, it was infected with all types of malware.

My old PC got infected with various malware, even though I religiously ran AVG (free version) and various other anti-malware products.

Every once in a while for kicks, I take a look at the log for my firewall software. It lists literally hundreds of attempts per day of people scanning for the usual open ports that most Windows configurations contain.

Finally, the security model of OS X is far superior to XP. In general, software cannot be installed without the user consciously granting permission and entering the admin password. So no, while not perfect, OS X is definitely not "just as susceptible" to infection as Windows.

It's very difficult for me to understand this. Malware and such gets on your computer from browsing the internet in a certain sort of way. I know that it is possible to get a virus without actually doing anything, but that's just incredibly rare. The vast majority of nasty things get on computers from use. I carefully use my computers and have never had a virus or any malware and such.