is thunderbolt dock worth it?

[TrancyGoose]

I always got my stuff done via a USB hub, be it an Anker hub or a DockCase hub I use now.

I passed a used electronics store, and they have a TB3 dock there for 50 EUR. A Kensington SD5200T. That's pretty cheap right? In comparison to what I see the prices of TB docks are currently on amazon.

Downside is, it has no HDMI but a DP port, plus i find that my current DockCase 8 in 1, has actually more USB ports, with 2 2.0 and 2 3.2 and a usb c 3.2.

Begs the question, is TB dock needed at all? Should i get this? Is it a bargain, used at that price?

Thanks all who can share their thoughts.

 

[Juicy Box]

Downside is, it has no HDMI but a DP port

I would prefer this over HDMI.

DP to HDMI cables are cheap, the other way around is not.

 

[TrancyGoose]

I would prefer this over HDMI.

DP to HDMI cables are cheap, the other way around is not.

My screen has all usb c, dp and HDMix2. So im not that worried about that. Is it generally worth it? Is a 50 EUR price tag good for a TB3 dock of this class, used?

 

[theluggage]

Begs the question, is TB dock needed at all?

It depends how many devices you want to connect to it and how much bandwidth they use and how critical it is that they run at full speed simultaneously. If everything is working for you with regular USB hubs then you're probably OK.

One big issue with USB-C docks with display outputs is that a USB-C hub/dock (that isn't Thunderbolt*) can't run a 4K@60Hz display at the same time as any 5 Gbps USB 3 peripherals** - everything else (USB ports, card readers, Ethernet) will share a single USB 2 (480 Mbps) connection. Some cheap docks with 4k output are permanently in this mode even without a monitor, or with a low-res monitor, so read the small print.

A (true) Thunderbolt dock will run at least one 4k display and support USB 3 on other peripherals.

Also, for anything - even Thunderbolt - claiming "dual monitor support" check that it (a) works on Mac (Macs don't support DisplayPort MST daisy-chaining) and (b) Is a "real" DIsplayPort-driven display and not "DisplayLink" which creates virtual display adapters over USB.

Yeah - it's a can of worms.

(* Beware USB-C products that are advertised as "thunderbolt 3 compatible" - sometimes this just means that - like all USB-C devices - you can plug them into TB3 ports - really check that the device on offer is actually a Thunderbolt dock - the little lightning bolt above the port should be the clue).

(** Theoretically, this should be possible using DisplayPort 1.4 if the computer, hub and display all support it - but assume not until proven otherwise).

 

[TrancyGoose]

It depends how many devices you want to connect to it and how much bandwidth they use and how critical it is that they run at full speed simultaneously. If everything is working for you with regular USB hubs then you're probably OK.

One big issue with USB-C docks with display outputs is that a USB-C hub/dock (that isn't Thunderbolt*) can't run a 4K@60Hz display at the same time as any 5 Gbps USB 3 peripherals** - everything else (USB ports, card readers, Ethernet) will share a single USB 2 (480 Mbps) connection. Some cheap docks with 4k output are permanently in this mode even without a monitor, or with a low-res monitor, so read the small print.

A (true) Thunderbolt dock will run at least one 4k display and support USB 3 on other peripherals.

Also, for anything - even Thunderbolt - claiming "dual monitor support" check that it (a) works on Mac (Macs don't support DisplayPort MST daisy-chaining) and (b) Is a "real" DIsplayPort-driven display and not "DisplayLink" which creates virtual display adapters over USB.

Yeah - it's a can of worms.

(* Beware USB-C products that are advertised as "thunderbolt 3 compatible" - sometimes this just means that - like all USB-C devices - you can plug them into TB3 ports - really check that the device on offer is actually a Thunderbolt dock - the little lightning bolt above the port should be the clue).

(** Theoretically, this should be possible using DisplayPort 1.4 if the computer, hub and display all support it - but assume not until proven otherwise).

Thanks for your response.

I currently use this hub. As it appears, it's a 3.2 hub and 3.2 on the ethernet (god knows only why).

I have 2 USB 2.0 on the back with HDMI (4K 60Hz) and PD and 2 USB-A 3.2 and a single USB-C 3.2.

I use a M1 MacBook pro 13, with a monitor that has a usb-c connection. I connect via USB-C directly in to macs TB port or via HUB and HDMI, usually PD and HDMI go in to HUB, thereby me having a USB-C 3.2 slot available and a free TB3 port as well.

I guess, based on the analysis, my needs do not require a TB dock, and I won't need to spend crazy money!
Cheers!

 

[theluggage]

I currently use this hub. As it appears, it's a 3.2 hub and 3.2 on the ethernet (god knows only why).

Oh, that looks fun

I have no idea what "Realize the coexistence of 4k@60Hz and 10 Gbps USB data transmission" means but practical upshot seems to be that you can configure it to limit the HDMI to 4k@30Hz and hence get full speed USB 3.1. That's actually a nice feature, worth paying a bit extra for.

Bits of it imply they're doing frame rate interpolation to convert a 30Hz signal to 60Hz but that could be just sloppy translation* ("92% compatibility imporved [sic] than traditional hubs") and I'm not sure that invoking the "soap opera effect" on a computer display is a good idea anyway.

There's some BS technobabble in that advert, though (especially the "blurry" 30Hz picture - 4k@30Hz gives exactly the same image as 4k@60Hz - the issues with 30Hz are jerky motion - particularly the mouse cursor disappearing when you move it) and the USB 3.2 references are confusing (but complaints on a postcard to the USB Implementers forum on that one).

The deal with USB 3.2 is (ignoring minor tweaks to the spec):

"USB 3.2 Gen 1" == USB 3.1 gen 1 == USB 3.0 == 5Gbps
"USB 3.2 Gen 2" == USB 3.1 gen 2 == 10Gbps
"USB 3.2 Gen 1x2" == USB 3.1 gen 1 using 2 lanes == 10Gbps if you can find peripherals that support it.
"USB 3.2 Gen 2x2" == USB 3.1 gen 2 using 2 lanes == 20Gbps if you can find peripherals that support it.

You simply can't do either of the "x2 modes" at the same time as a running a display as there aren't enough wires in a USB-C cable. Maybe the hub uses x2 mode to the computer to provide extra bandwidth if there's no display - I'll file that under "I can't prove that it doesn't" although I suspect it would have "20Gbps" plastered all over it if it did.

Anyway - all said and done - yes that looks like it will do the job and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

* Speaking as a shameless monoglot, their English is infinitely better than my Chinese and I'd never mock an individual person for shaky English - but I have no patience with companies selling relatively expensive products to the Anglosphere who can't invest in a decent English translation. When I've occasionally produced stuff for a non-English speaking audience - even on a no-budget, one-man-band basis - I've always contrived to find a native speaker, who actually understood the product, to get the translation right.

 

[TrancyGoose]

Oh, that looks fun

I have no idea what "Realize the coexistence of 4k@60Hz and 10 Gbps USB data transmission" means but practical upshot seems to be that you can configure it to limit the HDMI to 4k@30Hz and hence get full speed USB 3.1. That's actually a nice feature, worth paying a bit extra for.

Bits of it imply they're doing frame rate interpolation to convert a 30Hz signal to 60Hz but that could be just sloppy translation* ("92% compatibility imporved [sic] than traditional hubs") and I'm not sure that invoking the "soap opera effect" on a computer display is a good idea anyway.

There's some BS technobabble in that advert, though (especially the "blurry" 30Hz picture - 4k@30Hz gives exactly the same image as 4k@60Hz - the issues with 30Hz are jerky motion - particularly the mouse cursor disappearing when you move it) and the USB 3.2 references are confusing (but complaints on a postcard to the USB Implementers forum on that one).

The deal with USB 3.2 is (ignoring minor tweaks to the spec):

"USB 3.2 Gen 1" == USB 3.1 gen 1 == USB 3.0 == 5Gbps
"USB 3.2 Gen 2" == USB 3.1 gen 2 == 10Gbps
"USB 3.2 Gen 1x2" == USB 3.1 gen 1 using 2 lanes == 10Gbps if you can find peripherals that support it.
"USB 3.2 Gen 2x2" == USB 3.1 gen 2 using 2 lanes == 20Gbps if you can find peripherals that support it.

You simply can't do either of the "x2 modes" at the same time as a running a display as there aren't enough wires in a USB-C cable. Maybe the hub uses x2 mode to the computer to provide extra bandwidth if there's no display - I'll file that under "I can't prove that it doesn't" although I suspect it would have "20Gbps" plastered all over it if it did.

Anyway - all said and done - yes that looks like it will do the job and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

* Speaking as a shameless monoglot, their English is infinitely better than my Chinese and I'd never mock an individual person for shaky English - but I have no patience with companies selling relatively expensive products to the Anglosphere who can't invest in a decent English translation. When I've occasionally produced stuff for a non-English speaking audience - even on a no-budget, one-man-band basis - I've always contrived to find a native speaker, who actually understood the product, to get the translation right.

That is more tech talk i can take or understand lol, thank you! But from what I can tell, it actually works as 3.2 G2, i am getting those speeds with a monitor attached and ethernet plugged in, it does get hot with ethernet in it, but i limited the fan to kick in at 85 degrees celsius, and it doesn't kick in, so i guess it stays below that temp.

Overall, i am happy with it, it does the job, allows me to transfer data fast and have all of other stuff plugged in, i have a keychron k2 plugged in to the back where the 2.0 ports are! But thank you, i know a bit more now.

 

[Basic75]

One big issue with USB-C docks with display outputs is that a USB-C hub/dock (that isn't Thunderbolt*) can't run a 4K@60Hz display at the same time as any 5 Gbps USB 3 peripherals**

Unfortunately this isn't much of an issue because a lot of USB-C (non-Thunderbolt) docks don't even support 4k@60Hz in the first place. They all advertise 4K, which they can do, albeit at 30Hz, which, if you are lucky, they will admit to somewhere in the tech specs.

 

[theluggage]

Unfortunately this isn't much of an issue because a lot of USB-C (non-Thunderbolt) docks don't even support 4k@60Hz in the first place. They all advertise 4K, which they can do, albeit at 30Hz, which, if you are lucky, they will admit to somewhere in the tech specs.

True (and you absolutely have to check the specs carefully) - but the USB limitation is why these hubs don't support 60Hz. Some do (e.g. the one @TrancyGoose has) - but that will always come at the expense of USB 3 speeds on the USB ports.

 

[MikeDr206]

"USB 3.2 Gen 1" == USB 3.1 gen 1 == USB 3.0 == 5Gbps
"USB 3.2 Gen 2" == USB 3.1 gen 2 == 10Gbps
"USB 3.2 Gen 1x2" == USB 3.1 gen 1 using 2 lanes == 10Gbps if you can find peripherals that support it.
"USB 3.2 Gen 2x2" == USB 3.1 gen 2 using 2 lanes == 20Gbps if you can find peripherals that support it.

the naming people behind USB need to be fired