Is Upgradeability in an eGPU Really that Important?

[smirking]

Quite a few people around here have been turned off by the non-upgradeable design of the new Blackmagic eGPU. That's making me think twice about getting one too, but I also remember that past promises of upgradeability with external enclosures for various types of devices have been rendered moot as the enclosure itself became outdated tech. I had several G3/G4 Macs that had the CPUs on a daughtercard for easy upgradeability, yet the only time I ever went that route was when my CPU fried. I'm reminded that even when you have hardware that can be upgraded, the average user simply doesn't and that's one way Apple gets away with not having upgradeable devices.

I could understand the desire to have an enclosure that allows for upgrading to the most advanced card available if you're pushing some serious pixels and are likely to upgrade every other year or even every year, but what about for those of us who are on more of a 4 year cycle? How stable is eGPU tech? It seems to me that by the time I would want an eGPU upgrade, the enclosure I'm using is likely to have fallen behind enough that I'd want to get a new enclosure anyway.

 

[Tapiture]

I think that you're going to pay a premium for having an eGPU like the Blackmagic that requires no setup and is "plug-and-play." The card in the Blackmagic is not really anything to write home about. Check out this comparison with a Nvidia GTX 1080: http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-Pro-580-vs-GeForce-GTX-1080

It's going to be cheaper for you to get an eGPU casing and separate GPU, even if you have to upgrade the outdated casing each time.

Anything in Nvidia's 10 series is going to be better than AMD's offerings. And I believe there is a way to use an Nvidia card as an eGPU with the Mac, although it requires using a script as Nvidia are not officially supported by Apple yet. So if you're not deterred by some technical work, you can save yourself some money and have a higher-performance card.

 

[smirking]

I think that you're going to pay a premium for having an eGPU like the Blackmagic that requires no setup and is "plug-and-play." The card in the Blackmagic is not really anything to write home about. Check out this comparison with a Nvidia GTX 1080: http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-Pro-580-vs-GeForce-GTX-1080

It's going to be cheaper for you to get an eGPU casing and separate GPU, even if you have to upgrade the outdated casing each time.

Well, I'm doing this for photography so it's not important for me to be able to do any intense gaming with it. I know the Blackmagic eGPU has a premium attached to it, but I don't really see it as an unreasonably large premium if I consider that there's a good chance I don't hang onto the enclosure anyway.

An NVidia GTX-1080 smashes the Radeon 580 to pieces, but it's also a card that costs nearly $600 just by itself.

Also I'm not seeing any other enclosures that will allow you to drive a 5K display off of it. Everything has 1 TB3 port and a combo of HDMI and DVI ports.

Anyway, the question of whether a Blackmagic eGPU is a good value or not is a separate issue. I was more interested in whether it's really that smart of an idea to make purchasing decisions based on the assumption that a $500 Razer Core V2 is going to give you what you need in 4 or 5 years.

Just on priciple, I don't like throwing things away that I don't have to. I'll spend up to get someing reusable if it's the right product, but I've also been burned by the illusion of longevity only to end up spending more money and still ending up with the same amount of waste. It just seems to me that eGPUs might be one of those rapidly evolving things that might call for not planning ahead too far.

 

[jerwin]

Blackmagic egpu: $799

Price of bare Radeon RX 580: $312

Quite the premium.

And when newer and better graphics cards come along, you'll have the honor of paying the egpu tax once more.

 

[smirking]

Quite the premium.

The price of a Blackmagic eGPU is $699 not $799. I assume you're quoting in US currency.

The cost of a decent enclosure is $200 to $300. It can be argued that if you value the build and the ports of the Blackmagic eGPU, there actually isn't a premium because the really nice enclosures are all north of $300. The Blackmagic eGPU might fit that premium enclosure description. Having two TB3 ports and a near silent enclosure is nothing to sneeze at.

If you think you'll need to buy the whole thing all over again in 2 years, yeah I'd say the premium is quite high. My point is that if you don't think you're going to even consider an upgrade for the next four years, there might be no difference between what you'll end up spending because you might have to drop the enclosure anyway.

 

[OatmealRocks]

I am torn because I think BlackMagic eGPU is stunner, just the graphics card could be much better. I will wait for generation 2 of this product because to me this is the best and most polish product for a eGPU.

 

[smirking]

Well, I've decided to take the plunge and buy a BlackMagic eGPU... well, that is I'm willing to at least shell out the money to test drive it for a week before deciding if I'll keep it.

Unfortunately, they're sold out everywhere! I checked online for local stock a week ago and saw they had units at many Apple stores so I didn't jump on the opportunity. Each time I've checked, one more store is out of stock. I expected new stock to start appearing at the other stores, but that hasn't been the case. Now all of them are sold out.

I know the limitations and I would have preferred a more powerful eGPU, but time saved is time saved. That's worth money.

 

[ataq]

Well, I first had the blackmagic eGPU for exactly a few seconds. Returned it and ordered the Vega 64 + Razer Core X. In the end, I wanted the better GPU and the option of change later on.

The blackmagic eGPU has a big advantage, it looks super slick, takes less space on the desk because of its design and the most important it is super quiet.

Still, I moved to the Vega 64 in the end.

 

[smirking]

Still, I moved to the Vega 64 in the end.

Unfortunately, I need to drive an LG Ultrafine 5K. The only thing that can do that right now is the BlackMagic.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

Well, I first had the blackmagic eGPU for exactly a few seconds. Returned it and ordered the Vega 64 + Razer Core X. In the end, I wanted the better GPU and the option of change later on.

The blackmagic eGPU has a big advantage, it looks super slick, takes less space on the desk because of its design and the most important it is super quiet.

Still, I moved to the Vega 64 in the end.

This is what I would do exactly.
[doublepost=1533744786][/doublepost]

Unfortunately, I need to drive an LG Ultrafine 5K. The only thing that can do that right now is the BlackMagic.

Question though, what MacBook are you using? Doesn't the 5k Screen connect via your MacBook Pro's Usb-C plug?

 

[smirking]

Question though, what MacBook are you using? Doesn't the 5k Screen connect via your MacBook Pro's Usb-C plug?

Yup, but if you want to properly accelerate an LG Ultrafine 5K, it'll need to be connected directly to the eGPU and there are no eGPUs that support a 5K monitor except for the BlackMagic.

 

[LeeW]

the most important it is super quiet

It really is, there is a trade-off between what you need to get out of an eGPU performance wise and how annoying you want it to be a friend has the Razer core X, I just couldn't live with the noise it makes.

 

[smirking]

It really is, there is a trade-off between what you need to get out of an eGPU performance wise and how annoying you want it to be a friend has the Razer core X, I just couldn't live with the noise it makes.

I used to own one of the cheese grater classic Mac Pros. I jumped over to a MBP in 2012 and I had a really hard time letting go of that alumnium beast, but one thing that really made the transition a lot easier was how much quieter my MBP was. I used to keep my cMP in a desktop cabinet built into my office desk because it was just too loud. If I had music playing, I had to crank it up so it would sound good. If I was listening to the radio, I had to crank it up just to be able to understand what was being said.

 

[airlied]

Check out my post. I just got blackmagic egpu.

Yes you have to pay premium, but not that much because a decent egpu enclosure costs you 200-300 tho. Besides you get a super quiet design and 4 usb 3.0 + thunderbolt 3 hub, which could easily cost you another 50-60$ for a dongle.

It can also charge your mac up to 100w (I know some other egpu enclosures do that as well) so you could put your original power brick in the backpack.

And yes, if you dont plan to upgrade gpu every two years or even every year, a non-upgradable egpu is not a big deal. Since 4 years later the entire enclosure (or even the thunderbolt 3 technology itself) will become obsolete.

The only problem with blackmagic is, radeon rx 580 is not powerful enough for some people. If you are ok with it just go for it.

 

[smirking]

Yes you have to pay premium, but not that much because a decent egpu enclosure costs you 200-300 tho. Besides you get a super quiet design and 4 usb 3.0 + thunderbolt 3 hub, which could easily cost you another 50-60$ for a dongle.

It's a very nice hub at that too! I was quite taken with how attractive it was, but unfortunately I had to return it because the Blackmagic didn't do anything for me. I wanted it primarily to accelerate browsing and editing in Capture One Pro but it actually made it SLOWER. That's probably not the fault of the Blackmagic eGPU. My guess is that the way Capture One Pro handles rendering images during browsing activities requires the pixels to make a round trip back to the CPU.

When doing exports, the eGPU did help. but only resulted in about a 20% bump from my MBP 2016's onboard Radeon 460. I was very surprised that it was noticably slower browsing with an eGPu than without. It wasn't a case of Capture One Pro not utilizing the eGPU. It definitely utilized it, but wasn't able to use it effectively for at least some tasks.

 

[airlied]

It's a very nice hub at that too! I was quite taken with how attractive it was, but unfortunately I had to return it because the Blackmagic didn't do anything for me. I wanted it primarily to accelerate browsing and editing in Capture One Pro but it actually made it SLOWER. That's probably not the fault of the Blackmagic eGPU. My guess is that the way Capture One Pro handles rendering images during browsing activities requires the pixels to make a round trip back to the CPU.

When doing exports, the eGPU did help. but only resulted in about a 20% bump from my MBP 2016's onboard Radeon 460. I was very surprised that it was noticably slower browsing with an eGPu than without. It wasn't a case of Capture One Pro not utilizing the eGPU. It definitely utilized it, but wasn't able to use it effectively for at least some tasks.

Do you use egpu with internal display? I think if you connect a monitor with egpu then close the lid, the data won’t do round trip back to cpu. but I might be wrong.

 

[smirking]

Do you use egpu with internal display? I think if you connect a monitor with egpu then close the lid, the data won’t do round trip back to cpu. but I might be wrong.

Yup. I did that. I specifically got the Blackmagic eGPU because I wanted to accelerate an LG Ultrafine 5K and nothing else can do that. I really liked that whisper quiet little tower too. I was very disappointed that it was not only useless for my purposes, but counterproductive.

 

[AdamA9]

I had one and returned it. The 580 just wasn't powerful enough and I only have a 4k screen.

I think if this had an option of GFX cards, and you could opt for the Vega 64 I would have another one in a heartbeat, but I fear they'd never get the sound so quiet with a 64 in there due to the temperature that card reaches compared with 580

 

[smirking]

I had one and returned it. The 580 just wasn't powerful enough and I only have a 4k screen.

I think I may have had unreasonable expectations for what an eGPU could do for you. It didn't matter to me that a Radeon 580 was only approximately 2x as powerful as my onboard Radeon 460. I thought it might give me at least a 50% improvement in graphics processing power.

In the areas where the eGPU did work as expected, I only saw about a 20% improvement in processing time. If I were doing some very intense video work, a 20% boost would be well worth it, but I'm dealing with photos and shaving 20% off my RAW export time isn't worth the hassle of having the eGPU around. Even if the Blackmagic eGPU came with a Vega 64 in it, it still might not be worth it for my purposes.

By the time I saw enough improvement in real world speed that would be able to materially change the way I work, I'd have one big, loud, and expensive eGPU. I might as well just buy an iMac and use it as a photo editing station.

 

[ataq]

I use my Razer Core X eith Vega 64 for FCPX and Capture One and boy its crazy fast! Unbelievable. You forget the price once you see and experience the benefits for yourself. Running through MBP 2018 with 4K Dell display.

 

[smirking]

I use my Razer Core X eith Vega 64 for FCPX and Capture One and boy its crazy fast! Unbelievable. You forget the price once you see and experience the benefits for yourself. Running through MBP 2018 with 4K Dell display.

That's good to know and I'm glad to hear of your good results. I'm still going to sit on the sidelines for a while before thinking about jumping back into the eGPU pool though. There's a rather substantial difference between a Dell 4K UHD display and an LG Ultrafine 5K. The LG 5K has nearly twice as many pixels to drive.

I also wonder if the current state of graphics technology just isn't designed to work optimally with a 5k display. 5k displays are so new and actually quite rare. Are there even any other common 5K displays in existence besides the LG Ultrafine 5K that is only used by Apple customers?

Capture One Pro was actually quite snappy when I was using it on a 2012 MBP and 30" Apple Cinema Display.

 

[mmomega]

Quite a few people around here have been turned off by the non-upgradeable design of the new Blackmagic eGPU. That's making me think twice about getting one too, but I also remember that past promises of upgradeability with external enclosures for various types of devices have been rendered moot as the enclosure itself became outdated tech. I had several G3/G4 Macs that had the CPUs on a daughtercard for easy upgradeability, yet the only time I ever went that route was when my CPU fried. I'm reminded that even when you have hardware that can be upgraded, the average user simply doesn't and that's one way Apple gets away with not having upgradeable devices.

I could understand the desire to have an enclosure that allows for upgrading to the most advanced card available if you're pushing some serious pixels and are likely to upgrade every other year or even every year, but what about for those of us who are on more of a 4 year cycle? How stable is eGPU tech? It seems to me that by the time I would want an eGPU upgrade, the enclosure I'm using is likely to have fallen behind enough that I'd want to get a new enclosure anyway.

People are turned off by someone telling them they don't have the option.
They would probably never ever ever ever swap GPUs but tell them they can't do it and break out the torches and pitch forks and they are ready to burn someone's castle down.

Buy it and move on or just simply move on.

I liked the idea of the Blackmagic but decided against it and purchased something different.

 

[smirking]

People are turned off by someone telling them they don't have the option.

So true. Most people won't ever want to upgrade. They just want the option to upgrade and that's understandable. Everyone wants to futureproof their purchases, especially when what they're buying costs a good chunk of change.

It doesn't help us when the very things that are designed with upgradeability in mind tend to be the technologies that are likely to go through the most change. It's a bit of a paradox really. This thing is going to change so much that everything you buy to use it might not be compatible with it anymore in four years so you should futureproof your purchase by buying something that's upgradeable.

I've been guilty of that way of thinking myself plenty, which is why I stopped to wonder if I really need that upgradeability this time around. Not that there's anything wrong with concluding that you need something futureproof even if the chances that it'll come in handy is small, but it's wise to be aware that you could be making your decisions on something that's an imaginary factor for your specific use case.

 

[jacklivehere]

I just switched from. MacBook Pro 2015 + iMac 5K 2015. to MacBook Pro 2018 +eGPU+LG 5K .

Really happy with the performance, modular options.

Bottomline it all depends on what you want.

 

[ataq]

I just switched from. MacBook Pro 2015 + iMac 5K 2015. to MacBook Pro 2018 +eGPU+LG 5K .

Really happy with the performance, modular options.

Bottomline it all depends on what you want.

... and what you really need.