Is Yosemite going to be like Vista?

aicul

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 20, 2007
809
7
no cars, only boats
I remember when vista was made available and Apple poked the fun out of it in their "M. Mac and M. PC" adds.

They took the mockery out of the continuous Vista alerts asking for confirmation.

Today, in Mavericks I am more or less doing the same thing. And today, I fell in the trap that we all fall in when there are too many warnings, "we don't read them" and click a button just to move forwards. Unfortunately, that was an alert that was worth while reading.

But, hey, I have already read soo many alerts, it starts with those "new software to install", then the "you pulled the usb stick out without eject", then "the file already exists; replace ?", etc. etc.

Frankly, I'd much rather do errors myself without OSX enducing me to do errors.

And I'd love to kill some of those alerts, they don't add value when they are repetitive.

So I truly hope that yosemite has a global "no alerts" switch.
 

maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
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Boston
The same question was asked with Mavericks, Mountain Lion and Lion.

Vista was a product that Microsoft was years late on, over-promised on features, such as using SQL server as the file system and under delivered. They failed to produce any of the features that was initially promised. The product had major changes to the kernel and security implementation caused problems being that they were buggy.

So how could Yosemite be compared to Vista? It's not late, nor are features over promised. The betas have been largely stable and not horrendously buggy. All in in all its been a solid product for apple.
 

DavidBlack

macrumors 6502a
Jan 27, 2013
606
238
Somewhere In Apple's HQ ;)
I remember when vista was made available and Apple poked the fun out of it in their "M. Mac and M. PC" adds.

They took the mockery out of the continuous Vista alerts asking for confirmation.

Today, in Mavericks I am more or less doing the same thing. And today, I fell in the trap that we all fall in when there are too many warnings, "we don't read them" and click a button just to move forwards. Unfortunately, that was an alert that was worth while reading.

But, hey, I have already read soo many alerts, it starts with those "new software to install", then the "you pulled the usb stick out without eject", then "the file already exists; replace ?", etc. etc.

Frankly, I'd much rather do errors myself without OSX enducing me to do errors.

And I'd love to kill some of those alerts, they don't add value when they are repetitive.

So I truly hope that yosemite has a global "no alerts" switch.
Short answer: No.
 

SandboxGeneral

Moderator emeritus
Sep 8, 2010
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Detroit
Most of those messages you mention have been around for many versions of OS X and are kind of necessary. We've always had to enter a password to install apps, its a mild security feature. Letting you know that a file already exists and do you want to overwrite it is also important. I wouldn't want to have a global kill switch to turn stuff like that off because I could potentially lose a lot of work by overwriting it and not knowing it.
 

Jessica Lares

macrumors G3
Oct 31, 2009
9,200
722
Near Dallas, Texas, USA
The Vista alerts were MUCH worse. They were fullscreen and totally prevented you from doing anything until you clicked yes or no.

New software to install? Yeah, you don't want to know what your computer is doing in the background? Pulling out a USB drive without ejecting is known to have bad side effects. I accidentally did that with my iPod Nano in the last year and had to restore it.

Knowing that you might be about to lose data shouldn't be bothersome to you.

If you don't want to read them, go ahead. I hope that one day you don't accept a confirmation that says you're about to withdraw $50,000 from a bank account that only has $500, and your next paycheck isn't until two weeks later.

It will suck.

And by the way, they DID make the alerts better. They are now Notification Center alerts which are much nicer and less demanding than the ones that came up in the middle of the screen.
 

clukas

macrumors 6502a
May 3, 2010
958
305
The same question was asked with Mavericks, Mountain Lion and Lion.

Vista was a product that Microsoft was years late on, over-promised on features, such as using SQL server as the file system and under delivered. They failed to produce any of the features that was initially promised. The product had major changes to the kernel and security implementation caused problems being that they were buggy.

So how could Yosemite be compared to Vista? It's not late, nor are features over promised. The betas have been largely stable and not horrendously buggy. All in in all its been a solid product for apple.
Longhorn was what Microsoft promised, Vista what they delivered. Microsoft actually scrapped longhorn and Vista was the end result. Much of the problems people had with Vista was fixed in the subsequent service packs and the OS actually became very stable and usable. It was more a PR nightmare and perception problem which Microsoft never managed to fix.
 

Takuro

macrumors 6502
Jun 15, 2009
483
109
it starts with those "new software to install", then the "you pulled the usb stick out without eject", then "the file already exists; replace ?", etc. etc.

Frankly, I'd much rather do errors myself without OSX enducing me to do errors.
So let me get this straight. Your logic is that since you get an alert when you yank a USB drive without properly unmounting it, get warnings when overwriting existing files, and receive alerts for software updates (all of which have been features long before Yosemite), then OS X Yosemite is somehow Windows Vista?

What the **** are you smoking.
 

maflynn

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Staff member
May 3, 2009
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Boston
Longhorn was what Microsoft promised, Vista what they delivered. Microsoft actually scrapped longhorn and Vista was the end result. Much of the problems people had with Vista was fixed in the subsequent service packs and the OS actually became very stable and usable. It was more a PR nightmare and perception problem which Microsoft never managed to fix.
Longhorn was the internal name, Vista was the name MS gave it. While I agree that it became a stable OS, it was not the case when it was released. It was slow, buggy and UAC was a pain.

Microsoft scrapped everything in what it promised because they were failing to get anything out the door, pure and simple. People waited 2+ years for basically a bloated and buggy OS. While in time things improved I think people's perceptions were spot on.
 

waterskier2007

macrumors 68000
Jun 19, 2007
1,806
141
Novi, MI
Every one of the "alerts" you mentioned would fall into my "necessary" category. They are also very un-intrusive. Vista alerts would take up the entire screen and render everything else un-clickable until the alert was dismissed (like an alert view in iOS).
 

j800r

macrumors 6502
Jan 5, 2011
399
131
Coventry, West mids, England
I honestly suspect a troll post. Notice how the OP hasn't posted since...


But ya. I can't think of any constant alerts I receive so you must be doing something you shouldn't be. Sorry dude, it's your own idiocy in this case which Apple is kindly trying to save you from but I have to agree with you. I wanna see you do something utterly stupid and completely wreck your system too.

...although then you'll probably blame THAT on the OS like so many people in the app store reviews section.
 

mmomega

macrumors 68040
Dec 30, 2009
3,218
1,411
DFW, TX
I hope you aren't comparing the alerts in Yosemite to the usability nightmare that was UAC in Vista.

It was either get a full screen alert anytime you clicked anything it seemed, or turn it off and the OS basically tell you '"Good Luck at not getting a virus, you're on your own." It was like a light switch, it was in your face ON or completely OFF.

Then the DRM coverage across practically everything within the OS and then there was the ridiculous lack of driver support.
I remember formatting/reinstalling was such a chore if you forgot where your driver backup disk was. I had a 1 yr old Alienware at the time and finding drivers for the Soundblaster card was almost literally like looking for a needle in a haystack and nVidia drivers and SLI were scarce as well.
 

SandboxGeneral

Moderator emeritus
Sep 8, 2010
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Nope, Lion was like Vista (actually, Lion was worse.)
In what ways do you feel Lion was worse than Vista?

My experience with both was the opposite. Vista was horrible. It crashed a lot, took forever to load Network Places, it was overall slow to use, even with nothing running. That was on a brand new Dell, designed for Vista too.

Lion, on the other hand was perfectly stable, quick and acted just as good as every other Apple OS I've used prior and since.
 

n-evo

macrumors 65816
Aug 9, 2013
1,358
820
Amsterdam
You can turn off most if not all notifications on a per app basis, so I'm not sure what the big deal is here. On Windows turning off those balloons isn't as straightforward and involves modifying the registry from what I gathered years ago.
 

SarcasticJoe

macrumors 6502a
Nov 5, 2013
599
207
Finland
In Vista Microsoft made a massive re-write of practically the whole OS where they didn't just make huge changes to the UI, they completely re-wrote a lot of the API's (immature drivers using these API's was the #1 reason for the instability) and made some massive security improvements (which caused users massive headaches because application developers were used to the lax security in XP and earlier).

Yosemite on the other hand is not even close to this massive. It doesn't contain completely re-written API's, it doesn't have any significant changes to security and most certainly doesn't need a completely new set of drivers. It's actually comparable to the upgrade from Windows 2000 to XP.

Most of what Yosemite introduces is a UI reskin and some minor features...
 

j800r

macrumors 6502
Jan 5, 2011
399
131
Coventry, West mids, England
Nope, Lion was like Vista (actually, Lion was worse.)
Lion was fine. I had zero issues whatsoever. Same with any OSX version tbh.

I'm sorry you ran into issues. I hope you reported them and hope they were fixed. Vista was a universally buggy mess when it released though and this person is comparing UAC to anything on OSX.


OSX is generally more stable than Windows I've found. That being said, MS made leaps with Windows 7 and dare I say it...8 wasn't that terrible either. Though I've never had an issue with OSX. That luck seems to have stretched even to this beta.
 

5aga

macrumors 6502
Feb 18, 2003
457
79
Gig City
IMO Mavericks is Apple's Vista.

buggy and slow - very inconsistent.

however the Yosemite betas seem pretty solid so I think we'll get a better OS out of it.
 

Ray Brady

macrumors 6502
Dec 21, 2011
290
244
Vista was horrible. It crashed a lot, took forever to load Network Places, it was overall slow to use, even with nothing running. That was on a brand new Dell, designed for Vista too.
I had the same experience on an HP laptop that was designed for Vista. But when I finally got fed up with it and upgraded to a Macbook Pro, that exact same copy of Vista ran flawlessly in Boot Camp.
 

SandboxGeneral

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Sep 8, 2010
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I had the same experience on an HP laptop that was designed for Vista. But when I finally got fed up with it and upgraded to a Macbook Pro, that exact same copy of Vista ran flawlessly in Boot Camp.
That's odd to be sure.

I was so fed up with it, that I downgraded to XP on that Dell. It took me a week to find all the appropriate drivers for it since the box wasn't meant to run XP. I stayed on XP until Windows 7 came out and that ran just fine.
 

j800r

macrumors 6502
Jan 5, 2011
399
131
Coventry, West mids, England
IMO Mavericks is Apple's Vista.

buggy and slow - very inconsistent.

however the Yosemite betas seem pretty solid so I think we'll get a better OS out of it.
Sorry but you must be doing something wrong. Mavericks is solid as a rock.



Seriously, I don't get this. So many people complaining about performance issues with OSX when I've never had a single one! Not one! Ever! and I'm on a bottom end mid 2010 iMac!!

What really annoys me though is when people then call it "Apple's Vista" JUST because it didn't work out well for THEM! Well guess what? There's always at least one who's gonna have problems. No OS is perfect and one person is bound to suffer for some reason or another. Vista was a widespread disaster. OSX has never had a problem like that really.


OSX Snow Leopard - The best (in my opinion)

OSX Lion - Rock solid, no bugs or issues

OSX Mountain Lion - Rock solid, no bugs or issues

OSX Mavericks - Rock solid, no bugs or issues

OSX Yosemite beta 2 - Pretty solid, next to no bugs or issues.


Seriously, I've no idea what some of you guys are doing but I've never had an issue. It's not like my specs are amazing or anything either, but then specs have barely mattered with OSX really anyway.
 

tkermit

macrumors 68040
Feb 20, 2004
3,420
2,340
OSX Lion - Rock solid, no bugs or issues

OSX Mountain Lion - Rock solid, no bugs or issues

OSX Mavericks - Rock solid, no bugs or issues

OSX Yosemite beta 2 - Pretty solid, next to no bugs or issues.


Seriously, I've no idea what some of you guys are doing but I've never had an issue. I
OS X has had and remains to have tons of bugs and issues. If you don't run into any of them then your usage of OS X is fairly limited. And I don't mean that dismissively. Consider yourself lucky. :)
 

j800r

macrumors 6502
Jan 5, 2011
399
131
Coventry, West mids, England
OS X has had and remains to have tons of bugs and issues. If you don't run into any of them then your usage of OS X is fairly limited. And I don't mean that dismissively. Consider yourself lucky. :)
Don't take this the wrong way...but I have to wonder why you're even using a Mac if OSX is such a buggy mess. Why not Windows or Linux?

I can assure you I use my iMac extensively. It's on 24/7 and I never stop using it. Web browsing, video streaming, typing docs, even gaming (to an extent). I do it all and I have pretty much never had an issue. Two tiny glitches my entire usage time and one of them was in this beta so it was to be expected.

Nah, I think this is perhaps things that go far beyond general usage which is probably why they don't get fixed, cause most people don't notice them. I assure you though, I am far from a "light user". Only thing I don't do is faff about with terminal commands cause then you're asking for trouble anyway.
 

tkermit

macrumors 68040
Feb 20, 2004
3,420
2,340
Don't take this the wrong way...but I have to wonder why you're even using a Mac if OSX is such a buggy mess. Why not Windows or Linux?
I really don't consider it "a buggy mess", certainly not from X.Y.3 onwards. It's just relatively easy for me to run into bugs, that's all...Plus, I'm sure Windows and Linux have tons of bugs as well that I would encounter. In any case, I just love the way OS X is designed (and I'm not talking about the veneer there).
 

j800r

macrumors 6502
Jan 5, 2011
399
131
Coventry, West mids, England
I really don't consider it "a buggy mess", certainly not from X.Y.3 onwards. It's just relatively easy for me to run into bugs, that's all...Plus, I'm sure Windows and Linux have tons of bugs as well that I would encounter. In any case, I just love the way OS X is designed (and I'm not talking about the veneer there).
Ya, I didn't mean anything by that. It was just the way you said...came across as rather extreme.

I think it's equal parts me lucky and you unlucky mate.

Or me unlucky seeing as I'm beta testing and finding nothing. :p