Isn't it about time for iLife to be integrated with Mac OS X?

[TheAnswer]

Exactly! How useful is FrontRow without iLife? When FrontRow is part of the OS, why not iLife?

They are both included with new machines, but technically Front Row isn't part of the OS until Leopard. They are both included on new machines...so you can't get Front Row without also having iLife at this point.

Apple does not lose money by offering iLife for free. Apple clearly knows that newbies are attracted to iLife and therefore offers it for free with new Macs.

This isn't about not losing money...it's about making money. It comes bundled with new macs because the cost is factored into the hardware cost, so it's not likely that they will include it in the OS without a price increase. Like I said before, you get one version when you get your mac, after that it's up to you to decide whether the new features are worth the cost. (The one place I would agree that Apple should include iLife with the OS is if they broke functionality of older versions of iLife by upgrading the OS).

most of their customers upgrading to Pro applications. NOT TRUE! Most of my friends and their parents will never need Pro applications.

My parents and their friends (with my dad as the exception) don't go past Mail, Safari and a word processor. My dad uses a couple of other apps (but none of the iLife apps). My sister uses iPhoto, Mail, Safari, Word and Powerpoint. Of the iLife apps, I use iPhoto. If I have a video project, I open FCP out of instinct.

Like I said a couple of posts above. I'm all for Apple coming out with a discounted 3-in-1 bundle that includes iLife, iWork, and the OS because I think that would be in Apple's best interest (getting more users to try out iWork)...but I don't think it's in their best interest to include iLife in the OS without increasing the price, and I don't think it's in the majority of customers' interests for them to include it at an increased price.

 

[MisterMe]

Well, we all know that when you buy a new Mac, you get iLife bundled for free along with Mac OS X. I believe for beginners, iLife suite is what attracts them to Mac (as those are the applications they'll be using first and for a long time).

...

Unless the US definition of trust expands greatly, bundling iWork with MacOS X is not an antitrust issue. With all of the mergers going on, this is not going to happen.

However, such a bundle is a very bad idea. Macs ship with numerous utilities and mini-apps which allow the new owner to immediately begin work. However, it does not include the software to satisfy every conceivable user need. For these, new owners must buy additional software from Apple and third-parties. The freeware community also provides great software for users on a budget. Apple needs third-party developers. This has been an issue since the original Mac came bundled with MacWrite and MacPaint.

The new Apple is willing to step in and create a software category or fill an existing one which no third-party is willing to satisfy. However, Apple does not need to eliminate opportunities for developers who want to support the Mac.

 

[yellow]

sinstoic, I guess you need to define what you mean by "integrated".

 

[sushi]

Windows and Office are sold separately (I have never seen office bundled for free) so is Mac OS and iWork.

XP and Vista have some kind of AV tools though not in a neat integrated fashion and is part of the OS. Similary iLife should be a part of the Mac OS.

To me, iLife is a creative suite much like Office is a productive suite.

So I see both as being something you purchase extra.

iWork is a competitor to Office. So I would expect to pay for it as well.

As for Windows alternative...nothing compared to iLife is included. That is why I see iLife as a creative suite of software to be added and not part of the OS.

 

[sinstoic]

Today, an OS is expected to come with basic utilities so that most simple work can be done right away. Imagine Safari, Mail and iChat AV being bundled with iLife and not with Mac OS. In the days of Netscape, browsers were not part of any OS. Today it is hard to imagine any OS not providing a browser. Similary, with everybody owning a digital camera and most of them buying a video camera, basic tools to manage their content should be a part of the OS.

Integration: I have made my point bold.
Cost: There should be no change in cost.

 

[yellow]

Integration: I have made my point bold.

Frankly there already is an integrated part for some of this..

/Applications/Image Capture.app

I feel like you may mean bundled, rather than integrated.

 

[mkrishnan]

As for the combo upgrade package...never happened, yet.

I'm not saying I'm not crazy, but I have an excellent memory.

 

[TheAnswer]

Today it is hard to imagine any OS not providing a browser. Similary, with everybody owning a digital camera and most of them buying a video camera, basic tools to manage their content should be a part of the OS.

Image Capture is included for free...so people with Digital Cameras can download the photos, open them in Preview and print them without using iLife apps.

I just don't understand why this is an OS issue. People who want to connect and manage their video/photo content digitally must first of all have a computer. iLife ships with every mac. Therefore people who want to manage this content and have macs, already have this software on their machines.

Cost: There should be no change in cost.

Personally, I would love it...but it's not in Apple's best interest. So I probably won't happen.

 

[sinstoic]

My understanding of:

Bundled: Something that is separate is now offered with the OS.
Integrated: A part of the OS (like Mail)

Currently iLife is bundled therefore we have to pay to upgrade. If it was integrated with the OS, we don't have to pay for it separately when we upgrade the OS.

 

[TheAnswer]

I'm not saying I'm not crazy, but I have an excellent memory.

Damn...I wish I had known. I would have bought that. Let's hope they do a similar thing with Leopard.

 

[peterjhill]

I think it would be nice if they had a sale for the first 3 weeks of the OS release that if you bought 2 out of 3 of iLife, iWork, and 10.5 you would pay, say $150. Then if you bought all three you would pay $175, or something like that.

Are we all guessing 10.5 will be $99?

I am lucky enough to work in a University and will definitely use the edu discount.

I wonder if they will also offer a discounted .mac subscription with 10.5. I hate paying full price for .mac. So far I have been able to take advantage of various offers to get the discounts.

 

[mkrishnan]

Are we all guessing 10.5 will be $99?

Most likely $129 retail, $69 student. (AFAIK, Panther and Tiger were both $129).

 

[sinstoic]

Given Apple's money making schemes (see splitting of ProCare), I am sure the upgrade version of Leopard will be the expensive OS Apple has ever released so far.

 

[TheAnswer]

Given Apple's money making schemes (see splitting of ProCare), I am sure the upgrade version of Leopard will be the expensive OS Apple has ever released so far.

Call me an Apple apologist...

[Crowd] "You're just an Apple apologist!" [/Crowd]

...but I don't see it as purely a money making scheme. One-to-0ne is geared towards brand new users to get them up to speed with their mac. Pro Care is geared towards people that are already making money on their macs and need things like rapid repairs, etc. These two services should have been separate from the beginning. My guess is that Apple saw that switchers didn't feel they were "Pro" enough for Pro Care and pro users didn't see the point of the training, so they split them.

 

[notjustjay]

Windows Vista (anything but entry level versions) > $200

Leopard + iLife < $200

iWork doesn't cost much more, but it doesn't add much more either, so I'm not counting it.

So, what's the problem??

 

[sinstoic]

...These two services should have been separate from the beginning. My guess is that Apple saw that switchers didn't feel they were "Pro" enough for Pro Care and pro users didn't see the point of the training, so they split them.

What about many users who needed both? Now they have to pay double! (just because of the artificial separation)

 

[sinstoic]

So, what's the problem??

I want Apple to integrate iLife with Mac OS!

 

[TheAnswer]

What about many users who needed both? Now they have to pay double! (just because of the artificial separation)

How many users really need both? I'm guessing it's a pretty natural breakdown between new users who don't yet rely on their mac for their income and thus don't need rapid repair, etc. and those professionals that are already using their macs to make a living (thus are up to speed on the software and don't need training, but do need the repair services in Pro Care). Are there some users that need both, sure...but I'm not sure it's the majority (or even a sizeable minority). The current breakdown makes the training service less intimidating for new users (because they don't have to wonder if they are "Pro" enough).

 

[killmoms]

I would be surprised if iLife were completely integrated into Mac OS X.

I would think cries of monopoly and governmental suits over antitrust would follow. Don't forget that Apple is currently under suit over possible antitrust violations because the iTunes is so tied to the iPod.. which might be why Steve Jobs had his "open letter" about DRM and they started offering non-DRM'd songs from iTunes.

Having a monopoly in a market segment is not illegal.

Using that monopoly to try to gain a monopoly in OTHER market segments is illegal.

 

[yellow]

My understanding of:

Bundled: Something that is separate is now offered with the OS.
Integrated: A part of the OS (like Mail)

Currently iLife is bundled therefore we have to pay to upgrade. If it was integrated with the OS, we don't have to pay for it separately when we upgrade the OS.

Ah... IMO that would border on unfair practices.

Plus.. Apple needs to recoup their R&D costs on iLife. It's a pretty complicated bunch of softwares.

 

[yellow]

Given Apple's money making schemes (see splitting of ProCare), I am sure the upgrade version of Leopard will be the expensive OS Apple has ever released so far.

Wha?

They've never realeased a retail upgrade version of any OS X so far. Why start now?

And as noted, all the previous versions have been $129. Again, why change it now?

 

[iBunny]

Leopard should be $199 USD instead of $129....

And it should Include All the iLife Apps, and all the iWork Apps....

I would pay 200 for that.

 

[Phobophobia]

Pretty sure it's going to cost $129, like all the other versions.

 

[hms84]

When buy a new mac, you are actually paying for Tiger and iLife licenses too
It's included with the whole payment

 

[TheSpecialist]

Dude why the **** dig this up from the deep, endless depths of the archive?!!!

When buy a new mac, you are actually paying for Tiger and iLife licenses too
It's included with the whole payment