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Isn't this illegal to install ios 7 for other people for money?

BaldiMac said:
Copyright always applies. Distribution and reproduction of a computer program requires the permission of the copyright holder subject to specific limitations.



I read his second paragraph. It is incorrect.
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1. Jailbreak is not illegal, so charging $25 for jailbreaking is not illegal either.

2. And yes, charging people $25 to install iOS 7 is breaking copyright. However, it is highly unlikely Apple would ever go after this guy nor Apple would go after any sites offer downloading iOS 7 beta. So even this guy break copyright, it isn't that much big deal anyway. I don't really see the point that this topic is worth to discuses, it is not the first day we facing software piracy and it is certainly not the last day.
 
pmau said:
OK. Copyright does not apply because the NDA comes first.
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That's not true. Both apply.

When you and I agree on a contract and I violate our agreement, any other laws that might apply are not relevant for you to sue me ....

That was what I was trying to say.
Any number of additional laws might apply, but they are not relevant for Apple to take action.
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Apple isn't going to sue anyone anyway.

But if this guy hypothetically turned this into a large enough business to attract Apple's attention, they would sue him for both breach of contract and copyright infringement.
 
GoCubsGo said:
Their lawyers would likely issue a C&D and that would be that. His dev account should be banned though. Selling UDID slots or selling beta installs is just plain douchy. The spirit of the dev program is not for some ******* to make a quick buck selling beta installs.
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There is a demand, then there is supply. People see the demand, then people make money by supplying it. I could not see any wrong with that. Heck, this isn't even worse than people selling pirate software on internet.
 
Nanasaki said:
1. Jailbreak is not illegal, so charging $25 for jailbreaking is not illegal either.
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:confused: I never said it was. Jailbreaking is legal for specific purposes in the US.

2. And yes, charging people $25 to install iOS 7 is breaking copyright. However, it is highly unlikely Apple would ever go after this guy nor Apple would go after any sites offer downloading iOS 7 beta. So even this guy break copyright, it isn't that much big deal anyway. I don't really see the point that this topic is worth to discuses, it is not the first day we facing software piracy and it is certainly not the last day.
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I completely agree. But the question was simply whether it was illegal. I gave a straightforward answer. :)
 
BaldiMac said:
That's not true. Both apply.



Apple isn't going to sue anyone anyway.

But if this guy hypothetically turned this into a large enough business to attract Apple's attention, they would sue him for both breach of contract and copyright infringement.
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Probably not. It is depends on situation. If this guy turns into a large business for just offering jailbreaking for a fee or installing iOS beta software for a fee, i don't really think Apple would waste loads of money for the court action. And Apple probably does not care people installing iOS 7 beta anyway.
 
Nanasaki said:
There is a demand, then there is supply. People see the demand, then people make money by supplying it. I could not see any wrong with that. Heck, this isn't even worse than people selling pirate software on internet.
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There is a demand and supply for illegal drugs too. ;)
But that is not my point. My point is there is a spirit behind the dev program. Without devs we wouldn't have the wonderful (and some ******) apps we have today. Most apps that I use are designed by these devs who don't work for Apple. This is a blessing in many cases. The spirit of the dev program is to allow creativity and talent not some nimrod trying to make a quick buck selling to the impatient. All I am saying is that in the spirit of the dev program, this is ******.
 
Nanasaki said:
Probably not. It is depends on situation. If this guy turns into a large business for just offering jailbreaking for a fee or installing iOS beta software for a fee, i don't really think Apple would waste loads of money for the court action. And Apple probably does not care people installing iOS 7 beta anyway.
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I disagree. But it's all a hypothetical. :)

Apple has taken action in the past to cut down on developers selling beta slots.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/11...n_non_developer_devices_running_ios_5_report/
 
BaldiMac said:
I disagree. But it's all a hypothetical. :)

Apple has taken action in the past to cut down on developers selling beta slots.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/11...n_non_developer_devices_running_ios_5_report/
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Well, yes, Apple would closing developer account, but what i am saying is that it really isn't worth the money for court action.

And really, closing account isn't really effective. If i sell one slot for say $10 buck, i will make up that loss for selling 10 slot. So people could theoretically keeping registering developer account and keeping selling these slots.
 
It's not criminally illegal but it is civilly illegal, so to say. Whether or not one would actually get in trouble for it would depend on actually getting caught and someone (in this case Apple) actually going through with charges and a lawsuit.
 
Nanasaki said:
Well, yes, Apple would closing developer account, but what i am saying is that it really isn't worth the money for court action.
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That's one of the things that you are saying. I posted the article to dispute your claim that "Apple probably does not care people installing iOS 7 beta anyway."
 
Tander said:
That law does not apply here.

Apple don't sell iOS updates - so they are free to the public upon release, anyway. Apple have their own agreements with developers not to distribute beta software - punishment for doing do is having their dev account revoked.
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Actually yes those laws do apply.

Copyright is about the making and distributing of copies. Money doesn't have to change hands at any level to violate that.

But, again depending on the country, the worst they might be able to do is shut him down. Or even if they could sue for damages it would cost more to do that than what they could get. So banning him, disabling those UDIDs etc is likely all Apple would do depending on the level he's playing at (if he's managed to get a couple hundred accounts that might change their feelings as that's a major pack of devices)
 
Why do people care? No one has lost anything. Some guy makes a bit of money and people get to try some software. So?
 
shortcrust said:
Why do people care? No one has lost anything. Some guy makes a bit of money and people get to try some software. So?
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Well, technically they are being taken advantage of because registering the UDID is totally unnecessary.
 
What if he doesn't have a developer account? I mean I could easily put ios 7 on my iphone 4s without a developer account and I have done it because it is not that hard but went back down to ios 6.1.3 because some apps wouldn't work. So if say I wanted to do this for $10 can I go to jail or get charged a fine? Notice I said can I.

Wow this much people replied in one day. My first time this many having people replied to a single post that I made out of all forums lol.
 
iseeu1001 said:
What if he doesn't have a developer account? I mean I could easily put ios 7 on my iphone 4s without a developer account and I have done it because it is not that hard but went back down to ios 6.1.3 because some apps wouldn't work. So if say I wanted to do this for $10 can I go to jail or get charged a fine? Notice I said can I.

Wow this much people replied in one day. My first time this many having people replied to a single post that I made out of all forums lol.
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You could potentially get jail time or huge fine, but the chance is pretty slim. Since you are not developer, Apple cannot do anything beside trying to sue you for legal action. Now, consider how money involving court action, Apple probably won't do anything to you beside sending you a legal notice. There is 99% of chance that Apple won't even find out.

The probability of you being jailed or fined is probably equal to Microsoft suing someone using pirate Windows or charging custom for installing a pirate Windows. Trust me, I have worked for a PC store and we do lot. For past 5 years, there isn't anything from Microsoft telling me that we need to stop doing that.

And for OP, it isn't the first day we are dealing with software piracy nor it is the last day of dealing software piracy. And look at how many people actually get jail time and fine for using pirate software?
 
iseeu1001 said:
What if he doesn't have a developer account? I mean I could easily put ios 7 on my iphone 4s without a developer account and I have done it because it is not that hard but went back down to ios 6.1.3 because some apps wouldn't work. So if say I wanted to do this for $10 can I go to jail or get charged a fine? Notice I said can I.

Wow this much people replied in one day. My first time this many having people replied to a single post that I made out of all forums lol.
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Ok. Well judging by the way you appear to switch between an anonymous third person ("he") and first person ("I"), I believe you are attempting to use this thread to understand the legal ramifcations for you to charge others for iOS7. If that is the case, this isn't a very good idea. For one, you are getting this advice from unknown sources. These people are providing you personal opinions without all of the required information. Secondly, you might want to research your current abilities to perform the task you intend to charge for. Current Beta's are more difficult for non-devs to install. Finally, requesting information relating to non-official developer installs of iOS 7 goes against the rules of this forum.

In my personal opinion: an individual attempting to make some money installing the iOS beta to third parties does not run the risk of any jail sentence. Depending on the local laws, they could run the risk of a fine or criminal record. More than likely they would receive a "cease and desist" order from Apple, and be open to any civil liabilites that their customers could bring forward (ex. Software/Hardware damage to phone, phone locking out, loss of data, etc.)

Also, you might want to research how to craft a proper paragraph before you write your Kijiji advertisment.
 
What I wish Apple would do to alleviate all this is to invite a few hundred thousand non-devs to test a beta for free but limit their ability to make recommendations or some other limit, I don't know. I've never beta tested an iOS release, so I don't know what that entails, but there's hundreds of thousands of people that at least could offer something to Apple.
 
sk1wbw said:
What I wish Apple would do to alleviate all this is to invite a few hundred thousand non-devs to test a beta for free but limit their ability to make recommendations or some other limit, I don't know. I've never beta tested an iOS release, so I don't know what that entails, but there's hundreds of thousands of people that at least could offer something to Apple.
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Instead of banning developer selling UDID and trying to preventing people installing beta, why not just open to everyone? Microsoft has doing that for years and lot of gam developer open beta to users.
 
Nanasaki said:
Instead of banning developer selling UDID and trying to preventing people installing beta, why not just open to everyone? Microsoft has doing that for years and lot of gam developer open beta to users.
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Because most people don't understand what beta means. :D
 
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