IT professionals and Macs

[pjarvi]

Our IT department has a policy of using the same computers that we sell to customers. This prevents us from being able to use Macs. Other than that, I think managers would be against buying Macs due to the issue of what happens if the person quits or resigns and a new hire is brought on? Will the new hire be able to use a Mac? There's also the issue of Macs being more expensive than Windows PC's, and the company may have a contract with a particular PC manufacturer that requires them to purchase a certain number of systems a year from them in order to get a certain discount. This also applies to software, Microsoft has licensing schemes that require companies to purchase a minimum number of licenses to get certain pricing.

 

[synth3tik]

Most IT programs in colleges do not have any OS X based curriculum. If they do it is very very very basic. Typically CS classes will show off Windows, Linux flavors and UNIX. To get Apple certified people need to find a testing center and basically self teach or find a center that offers classes. Even this testing is rather expensive and usually is paid for by companies to give their employees extra training.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Most IT programs in colleges do not have any OS X based curriculum. If they do it is very very very basic. Typically CS classes will show off Windows, Linux flavors and UNIX. To get Apple certified people need to find a testing center and basically self teach or find a center that offers classes. Even this testing is rather expensive and usually is paid for by companies to give their employees extra training.

you can not blame the colleges for this. There is only so much time to teach students and there goal is to cover what most of the industry uses. Apple is going to get cut since it is the smallest market share in that world.

 

[leekohler]

Umm...I'll have to talk to my IT guys at work, but we're a Mac-based company and I'm confused by some of the things said here. Our guys are able to access all our computers remotely and push software on them. They rarely come to anyone's desk for anything and haven't for years. I've been in the server room and it's full of Mac towers and Xserves. There are a few Dell servers, and I mean a few. The database I access is one one of the Dells and it works just fine. BTW- we have about 300 people in my office and everyone, with only a few exceptions, uses a Mac. I have to say, it's pretty great IMO.

 

[DigitalVoodoo]

Umm...I'll have to talk to my IT guys at work, but we're a Mac-based company and I'm confused by some of the things said here. Our guys are able to access all our computers remotely and push software on them. They rarely come to anyone's desk for anything and haven't for years. I've been in the server room and it's full of Mac towers and Xserves. There are a few Dell servers, and I mean a few. The database I access is one one of the Dells and it works just fine. BTW- we have about 300 people in my office and everyone, with only a few exceptions, uses a Mac. I have to say, it's pretty great IMO.

That's just it - Macs work great for your business, so that's what you use. Macs don't work well for my business, so we don't use them. It's not an argument of platform superiority, but of what works for your business. They're just tools, right? Use what works best, be it Windows, Mac, Linux, Unix, NetWare, CICS, etc.

Just as not all users are Lusers, not all IT guys are arrogant morons, even if they do disagree with one's platform of choice for reasons that may not be readily apparent.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

What about virturalization for OSX. I know for windows it is a huge thing and used a lot. I spend a good part of my day in a virturlized OS

 

[DigitalVoodoo]

Virtualization could be a good answer, but it depends on what the real question is. Most businesses looking at desktop virtualization are viewing it as either a Terminal Server/Citrix replacement or companion, with the cost of the virtual infrastructure offset by the use of cheap thin client devices or old PCs by the end user. While a Windows VM would make existing on a Windows network easier for a Mac user, you wouldn't have the cost savings angle to use to justify purchasing Mac equipment. Also, the devil in virtualization is the management of the VMs, and none of the major players (i.e. VMware, Parallels, XenSource, etc) are in a position to support the Mac as a managed host for a Windows VM (centralized VM and tools/agent mangement in particular).

 

[Queso]

Wow, so much ignorance. Too many of you read the MacDailyNews take and believe it by the sound of things

The truth is that Macs just aren't as scalable in large deployments as Windows is. Macs are perfect for single or home users, and absolutely shine in small businesses and research facilities. But the number of tools and software available for managing a 5000 user or greater network is tiny compared to what's out there for Windows, so the bigger the company the worse a fit Apple are to their needs.

There's also some of you that seem to believe your "IT guy" is the one blocking your wishes, and doing so out of ignorance. He or she makes no decisions on this sort of strategy. There is normally a global IT policy agreed between the business function and the IT department, which the CIO and his team will interpret with the help of technical architects. And believe me, the technical architects have to know their stuff on a wide range of technologies, including Macs. Otherwise they soon find themselves out of work.

 

[Neil321]

I work for a college in the uk teaching basic IT skills,when i started i asked about Mac's the response i got was "oh we know about Mac's their too pricey,and our courses only support windows & NOT OS X"

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Wow, so much ignorance. Too many of you read the MacDailyNews take and believe it by the sound of things

The truth is that Macs just aren't as scalable in large deployments as Windows is. Macs are perfect for single or home users, and absolutely shine in small businesses and research facilities. But the number of tools and software available for managing a 5000 user or greater network is tiny compared to what's out there for Windows, so the bigger the company the worse a fit Apple are to their needs.

There's also some of you that seem to believe your "IT guy" is the one blocking your wishes, and doing so out of ignorance. He or she makes no decisions on this sort of strategy. There is normally a global IT policy agreed between the business function and the IT department, which the CIO and his team will interpret with the help of technical architects. And believe me, the technical architects have to know their stuff on a wide range of technologies, including Macs. Otherwise they soon find themselves out of work.

I think you can scale down that number to something like around 50+ computer windows just has huge advantages in tools and what it can handle. The advantages grow as the number gets larger. Small business is less than 30. Once you start cross that number and start running with centerilized servers windows starts taking off.

business is windows bread and butter. I remember some where that the home market is does not make much if any money for Microsoft. Compare this to apple where its bread and butter is the home market. Apple really does not try very hard to compete with Microsoft in bussiness world same as Microsoft does not do a huge amount of marketing to the home market comparatively to what they dump business side.

 

[mrgreen4242]

Can someone explain for me why IT folks and departments prefer not to use Macs? Is it because they simply wouldn't have jobs anymore, or be needed as much, or is it prejudice based on a reality that no longer exists? I know there are some who are fine with Macs, but in my own school district (where I work), the district insists on using PCs, which must have useless antivirus programs on them that slow the system down.

imo, they are not well informed. some are afraid to "think different". they are in this comfort zone where they have no idea how to use macs.

another thing is exchange server. once it is setup it would be hard to convince companies so use macs...

That attitude bothers and offends me. I'm an IT professional, in both terms of servicing PC's and administering Windows based servers, etc.

I'm also a Mac user. When people ask me what kind of computer to buy at home I tell them to get a Mac.

At the office however, the basic problem is this: I don't have the time (nor patience) to retrain 30 people. Yea, OSX is pretty easy to learn, but you have to understand the average technical proficiency of people in the general workforce is about that of a gold fish.

MOST people treat a computer like a magic box and have no idea how anything actually works, on hardware OR software level. Teaching them to use Firefox was a challenge.

In short, it's not the IT folks, it's the users.

 

[mrgreen4242]

Two words "Velcro Sneakers" I.T is not about service or even work. It's about making the MAN think they need you and constantly telling them they can't do something or something wont work. Protecting their own domain of DOING nothing all day long. God forbid learning something new or trying something different. Did i say that all out loud?

Sorry bout that. In order for that to happen you will need someone who is not afraid to learn new things. You will need someone in charge of the I.T department who is a forward thinker and does not rest on the past.

Yawn. Any business with 30 or more users would fail entirely within a year without IT support. You get the same spread of hard workers and lazy ones as you do in any industry, and IT departments face the difficulty of most good support services: if they're working well no one knows they exist, it's only when something goes wrong do they pay any attention to you.

You clearly aren't in a computer related technical field or you'd understand that people, as I said, treat computers like magical boxes that can just do whatever you think needs to happen. You have no idea how many times I've had people on our Board of Directors say "can't the computer just do that"? In truth, it probably could. Probably. If we wanted to devote 500 man hours to creating the dataset, programming the reports, and formatting and collating all the data. But that's not what they want. They think you can just hit a few buttons and it will, literally, magically do something.

 

[takao]

At the office however, the basic problem is this: I don't have the time (nor patience) to retrain 30 people. Yea, OSX is pretty easy to learn, but you have to understand the average technical proficiency of people in the general workforce is about that of a gold fish.

MOST people treat a computer like a magic box and have no idea how anything actually works, on hardware OR software level. Teaching them to use Firefox was a challenge.

In short, it's not the IT folks, it's the users.

"i don't like the new 19" lcds ... the text is so small ... it's much harder to read"

"the it department made the font smaller in the program"

"why do i have to make it a jpeg instead of a bmp when sending through email to everybody in the company"

 

[mrgreen4242]

"i don't like the new 19" lcds ... the text is so small ... it's much harder to read"

"the it department made the font smaller in the program"

"why do i have to make it a jpeg instead of a bmp when sending through email to everybody in the company"

Hahah. Ya, that's about the extent of "Tech Support: Life in IT".

"My printer doesn't work" "does it have paper?"
"My mouse/keyboard doesn't work" "is it plugged in?"
This kind of thing fixes at least half of my trouble tickets.

 

[takao]

Hahah. Ya, that's about the extent of "Tech Support: Life in IT".

"My printer doesn't work" "does it have paper?"
"My mouse/keyboard doesn't work" "is it plugged in?"
This kind of thing fixes at least half of my trouble tickets.

"i can't find my files anymore" (put on the wrong network share)

"i didn't do anything, it just stopped working"

etc.

luckily i was just the guy who was supposed to get the intranet CMS running and didn't have to bother with that kind of stuff