Italian Bride's bouquet brings down plane

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by arkitect, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. arkitect macrumors 601

    arkitect

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    #1
    Luckily noone was killed.
    Talk about a freak accident — guaranteed to be a memorable day for the whole town now.
    :eek:

    Link…
     
  2. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #2
    I am curious about what kinda plane they had where throwing something out the window WOULDN'T get sucked into the engine. :rolleyes:
     
  3. arkitect thread starter macrumors 601

    arkitect

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    #3
    God knows who thought that it was an excellent idea throwing anything from a plane. :D
     
  4. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem

    GoCubsGo

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  5. Unspoken Demise macrumors 68040

    Unspoken Demise

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  6. bartelby macrumors Core

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    #6
    Only -2?!

    You're a generous man!
     
  7. Unspoken Demise macrumors 68040

    Unspoken Demise

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    #7
    They're a newly-wed couple. They need all the points they can get.
     
  8. Tilpots macrumors 601

    Tilpots

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  9. pelicanflip macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    haha, wow, what a terrible idea.

    one heck of a wedding though.
     
  10. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #10
    "If anyone knows of any reason why these two should not be wed, let them speak now, or show us a sign..."
     
  11. somewhatvaguely macrumors member

    somewhatvaguely

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  12. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #12
    First, while it may be a small plane, it was a multi-engine plane. Yes, a multi-engine plane! You would think that the pilot would use a small single engine plane such as a Cessna or Piper for example.

    Second, to drop a bouquet out of an airplane and have it land anywhere near the intended target, you would need to be low and slow. Again, not a good idea on many counts -- especially for a multi-engine prop (assuming) plane.

    So while they may get a +1 for originality, they along with the pilot get a minus for common sense.
     
  13. redking31591 macrumors 6502

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  14. aethelbert macrumors 601

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    #14
    I don't know who should be losing the points: the couple or the idiot that agreed to fly the plane.
     
  15. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #15
    :D
    luckily no one got seriously hurt.
    i got curious so i did some digging
    the 'plane' was an autogyro, which is more like a small helycopter/plane hybrid.
    here is a link to the actual aircraft that crashed, and its pilot (luciano nannelli) in action!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQUG0mIPpTU

    and a picture for the lazy ones:
    before
    [​IMG]
    and after
    [​IMG]

    :D:D:Dmiracles of google!
    the flowers got sucked up in the rear propeller. given the speed and height of flight, the bouquet idea was entirely feasable, they just got unlucky or botched the throw

    and they didn't hit any building, but they crashed in a park, close to a youth hostel

    so,
    and -10 to bcc for shoddy journalism :D
     
  16. ChrisA macrumors G4

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    Redondo Beach, California
    #16
    EVERY time I have been at some event that was later reported on in the media the reporter got the facts wrong. Every time.

    This just goes to show how bad even the BBC is. They mistook a gyrochoper for an airplane, did not know a prop from an engine and landing near a building from crashing into a building.
     
  17. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #17
    Agreed. Fortunately, there is no Darwin candidate in this mess.
     
  18. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #18
    yep, and the quality has dived dramatically in the last few years both in term of reporting and actual writing.

    did you notice in the video above the guys lands in a field by passing below some cables (i guess telephone/cable tv, but it could also be power) :eek:
     
  19. RedTomato macrumors 68040

    RedTomato

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    #19
    I'm still trying to understand how autogyros fly.

    As far as I see, they have a pre-rotate before flying, where the engine powers up the main rotator, but once in flight, there is no power whatsoever to the main rotator.

    From the video, the rotator seems to work as a kind of big round wing, at a certain angle of attack to the forward motion of the plane, with propulsion being provided by the rear propeller.

    I'm still not quite certain how the main rotator holds the plane up in the air while still keeping its speed of rotation - the two things seem mutually exclusive.
     
  20. PCMacUser macrumors 68000

    PCMacUser

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    #20
    Yep we have the same problem in NZ. The journalists get their facts wrong, and to top it all off, can't spell or use correct English grammar. Apparently the problem is a result of the pressure to be 'first' to report the latest news, and budget cuts (they can't afford to hire experienced journalists - only new grads).
     
  21. PCMacUser macrumors 68000

    PCMacUser

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    #21
    Check this out...
     
  22. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #22
    Thanks for your follow up and research. Quite a different story than what was originally released.

    Please ignore my post above as it was based upon incorrect information.

    The short version. The gyrocopter is in steady state autorotation as it flies.

    The long version.

    Let's talk helicopters first. On a single rotor helicopter the transmission powers the main rotor and the tail rotor. The engine is connected to the transmission via a Sprag clutch or similar device. When the engine quits, the Sprag clutch allows the main and tail rotors to keep turning even though the engine is slowing down.

    On a side note, a single rotor helicopter requires around 30-35% of the main rotor thrust from the tail rotor to maintain directional control. For example, if the main rotor is putting out 20,000 pounds of thrust, then the tail rotor would need to generate 6-7,000 pounds of thrust to maintain directional control. That is why the transmission provides power to both rotors. A gyrocopter does not need a tail rotor because the main rotor is non-powered in flight.

    When a helicopter has an engine failure, and the Sprag clutch engages (which disengages the engine from the transmission), the main rotor would naturally slow down without power. (In reality, it slows down rather quickly especially on some types of helicopters.) To keep this from happening, the pilot immediately lowers the collective to decrease the pitch of the blades and to enter steady state autorotation. The pilot will also need to adjust the cyclic to the desired attitude and adjust the anti-torque pedals to maintain directional control.

    During autorotation, the main rotor has the following regions:
    • Driven
    • Driving
    • Stall

    To sustain autorotation, the Driving region must create more thrust than the Driven and Stall regions combined. If not, the rotor speed will bleed off until you no longer can remain in steady state autorotational flight.

    During the initial test flight and follow on maintenance test flights, the rigging is set/adjusted such that when the collective is placed full down position the main rotor will be set for steady state autorotation.

    At the bottom of the autorotation, the pilot executes a deceleration maneuver, like a flair if you will, to decrease the forward airspeed. This is very important when landing in an unimproved landing area so that the helicopter doesn't flip upon touchdown. After the deceleration, the pilot pulls up (increases) the collective to increase the pitch on the blades (trading rotor inertia for lift) to cushion the landing. At this point the rotor begins slowing down very quickly so you usually have just a few seconds of lift before you drop.

    Here are some example autorotations with the Mosquito helicopter. Look around the 4 minute mark. Notice the large deceleration to slow the helicopter down. In rough terrain this is extremely important to preclude rollover upon landing. You'll also notice how quickly the helicopter falls upon the reduction of power.

    One noteworthy point, is that a helicopter flies in two basic states. Above ETL and below ETL. ETL stands for Effective Translational Lift. At a hover, on a calm day the helicopter is below ETL. As the helicopter moves forward, the airflow begins to move through the main rotor transforming it into a rotating disc if you will. This usually happens between 16 and 24 knots. You can see this when the helicopter passes through ETL the tail will wiggle a little. The pilot must compensate by adjusting the cyclic, collective and anti-torque pedals.

    BTW, the happens when accelerating from a hover to forward flight and when slowing from forward flight to a hover. Can you go through ETL at a hover. On a calm day, no. But on a windy day, yes, the helicopter can go into an out of ETL. It's a pain to fly that way for very long. The pilot gets a good work out maintaining his position.

    Getting back to autorotations. The steady state for autorotation is based upon forward airspeed above ETL when the rotor is functioning as a flying disc if you will. This is the same state that a gyrocopter is in during it's normal flight mode.

    However, a gyrocopter does not have the ability to change the blade pitch through a collective. Rather the pitch is set so that the steady state autorotation is achieved during forward flight. A gyrocopter cannot do a hovering autorotation in calm winds like a helicopter because the pilot cannot control the pitch of the blades. A gyrocopter requires airflow through the main rotor.

    When a gyrocopter is cruising the driver motor pushes the gyrocopter though the air which generates the airflow over the rotor to make it act as a flying disc. On the ground, before flying, the pilot will initiate the main rotor spinning either by hand or with a power assist. But once spinning, no power is applied during flight to the main rotor.

    As the gyrocopter is flying and it experiences and engine failure, the pilot must adjust the angle of the main rotor disc to compensate for the change in airflow to maintain the steady state autorotation. But unlike a helicopter, in calm wind settings the gyrocopter will land with forward speed. They tend to flip over on landing on unimproved areas where as a helicopter can set down gently because the pilot can apply collective to cushion the landing.

    Well, that was a bit long. :eek:

    I just covered the basics. There is a lot more to it, but I hope that you can get the gist of how autorotation works and how a gyrocopter flies.
     
  23. dmr727 macrumors G3

    dmr727

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    Southern California
    #23
    Wow, great post sushi!

    But I gotta say it - you helicopter guys are out of your friggin' minds! :p:p
     
  24. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #24
    Thanks.

    If the truth were known, we don't fly. We just beat the air into submission. :D
     
  25. RedTomato macrumors 68040

    RedTomato

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    Location:
    .. London ..
    #25
    +1 to Sushi

    great post also. Didn't quite follow the section about ETA, but I always like learning about flying. Used to fly hang gliders many years ago, possible going para-gliding for the first time in a few months.
     

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