The CEO wasn’t interested… and is likely why he’s no longer with the company. A reasonable licensing deal would have been very beneficial to them in the years leading up to them losing the patent, which is just a few more years I believe.
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ITC Judge Rules Apple Watch Blood Oxygen Workaround Does Not Infringe Masimo Patents
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szw-mapple fan
macrumors 68040
Masimo likely asked for more that what Apple was willing to pay (usually with something like this a percentage of the device's value), especially since this only affect US users. Also I believe the CEO at the time at Masimo wasn't willing to do a licensing deal. The patent expires in two years in any case.
Danaher, eh? Masimo would be a portfolio fit. It would also be a quick way to being fully subsumed (I worked for two companies that were acquired by Danaher at different times).
Abazigal
Contributor
How’s that for “thinking differently”? You were all so convinced that Apple should settle, and their engineering team managed to come up with a workaround instead. 
Perhaps the most powerful weapon Apple has at their disposal - they know how to wait.
Perhaps the most powerful weapon Apple has at their disposal - they know how to wait.
frenchcamp49er
macrumors 6502a
Please, folks. If you're not technically and legally knowledgeable enough to judge this situation, don't. This isn't a football match. We all love Apple but it doesn't mean they're always right no matter what, and the other companies are always the bad guys. Just let the justice system do its work.
Shirasaki
macrumors P6
Make it this:
Apple = forever good.
Everyone else = forever bad.
Apple probably is the only good guy in existence to date.
Why. It is the world's largest seller of blood oxygen meters, they invented the idea.
And in the news today a US company just bought Massimo for vlose the $10 Billion dollars.
transpo1
macrumors 68000
I believe Massimo canned their CEO in the last year or so. I don’t think their board was happy with this lawsuit and felt like the CEO sold them on a payday that was never going to materialize.
So Apple is hardly a good guy but I think there is credence that the Massimo side was operating outside of business reality regarding the cost of licensing their patents.
So Apple is hardly a good guy but I think there is credence that the Massimo side was operating outside of business reality regarding the cost of licensing their patents.
To this day , I still dont understand why apple didn't just write a check to these guys and buy the company.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
Masimo is not a troll, but I do not understand how they were able to patent O2 oximetry in their devices. O2 saturation devices were first described almost a 100 years ago (1935?). Even modern pulsed oximetry like Masimo describes was invented in 1972 and commercialized by Takuo Aoyagi. Masimo's patents should not have been granted by the USPTO for this 'prior art' and I believe it is only in the US where Masimo is protected. I suspect Apple will outlast Masimo on this one.
Actually they did not invent as pulse oximetry was described in 1972. Masimo is an EU company with a US office in California, but was only awarded patents in the US, while the rest of the world presumably acknowledged 'prior art' which kills most patent applications. The USPTO needs a revamp.
I imagine if they tried buying them out or licensing the tech before infringing on their patent the sum would probably have been much less.
spazzcat
macrumors 601
The O2 patents ran out years ago. Several patents were tossed in as result of this case. The ones that still stand both end in 2028 are kind of weak which why people say they are patent trolls:
- U.S. Patent No. 10,912,502: This patent describes a user-worn device with multiple LEDs and photodiodes arranged to capture physiological data while minimizing interference from ambient light.
- U.S. Patent No. 10,945,648: Similar to the '502 patent, this covers the hardware configuration and methods for pulse oximetry (measuring blood oxygen levels) in wearable devices
spazzcat
macrumors 601
There were several rumors that they wanted between $50 and $100 per watch when you look at what these patents do the licensing fee probably should've been below a dollar for each per watch.
- U.S. Patent No. 10,912,502: This patent describes a user-worn device with multiple LEDs and photodiodes arranged to capture physiological data while minimizing interference from ambient light.
- U.S. Patent No. 10,945,648: Similar to the '502 patent, this covers the hardware configuration and methods for pulse oximetry (measuring blood oxygen levels) in wearable devices
This was announced over a month ago by Danaher however the transaction is not expected to close until the second half of this year.
My recollection from the former CEO's public statements was that he wanted Masimo to collaborate with Apple on the blood oxygen sensing, in addition to having Apple take a license. I presume Apple wasn't interested.
surferfb
macrumors 68030
I believe the accepted timeline here is that Apple did try to license the tech before "infringing", Masimo asked for ridiculous terms, wouldn't really negotiate, and then Apple looked at the patents, realized the patents probably shouldn't have been granted in the first place (as @TonJay and @spazzcat pointed out) and so decided to risk it. They got a lot of the patents thrown out, but not all of them.
I'm not saying that what Apple did was the correct/moral decision, but this isn't a case of Masimo asking for unreasonable terms because Apple "infringed", it's a case of Apple "infringing" because the patent holder wouldn't license with reasonable terms.
I tend to agree with your take. Personally (as a patent attorney) I believe that the Masimo patents are weak, but there was enough to prevail on a few relevant patent claims.
What is notable is that the Federal Circuit used the "substantial evidence" standard to review the ITC. In other words, the appeals court gave the ITC the benefit of the doubt when it was a close case, as it was here. A tribunal other than the ITC (for example, a district court) could have come to a different conclusion given that this was a close call.
WarmWinterHat
Suspended
Patent troll = does not make the product, never did, and have no intention to ever do so.
People can say whatever they want, but they are wrong.