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iTunes 10.5 Beta is 64-bit, and... Cocoa?

Wayfarer said:
Found screenshots of what iTunes looks like full screen in Lion:

http://mac-and-i.blogspot.com/2011/06/wwdc-itunes-105-beta.html

Image
Click to expand...

So it still has the crappy black & white icon interface they introduced a few versions ago that almost everybody on earth hates except Mr. Jobs and his church. Yay. :rolleyes:

faroZ06 said:
What's the point of 64-bit iTunes?! From my understanding, 64-bit is really only advantageous in large applications like Photoshop and Final Cut. When I get this, I'm running it in 32-bit mode. 64-Bit iTunes is a big waste of RAM. :eek:
Click to expand...

I think you misunderstand. 32-bit app support will probably be removed entirely in 10.8 so Apple is moving towards this. They've already eliminated 32-bit CPU support in Lion and removing all 32-bit app support is the next logical progression in order for Apple to keep telling everyone OSX is the most advanced OS in the world despite the total BS that it is in context of 3D graphics and keeping said APIs up-to-date, etc. But then Mr. Jobs has always had an odd idea of what advanced means. He'll move one area of the OS as far as it can go and to hell with the consequences with backwards compatibility with older software, etc., but then leave OpenGL on version 2.x for a half decade, letting all gaming support rot in hell unless it's a phone app, etc.

Of course, the consequences for moving say the iOS app store to the primary Mac app store and away from iTunes would not only have consequences for Windows users, but it would render all Leopard machines obsolete over-night with no ability to support iOS devices. That will probably happen anyway since I doubt support for PPC will last much longer in iTunes and Intel users are expected to upgrade come hell or high water to the latest OS version if it means dumping Rosetta support, etc. that would leave them to conclude that Lion is a POS and an utter waste of time and money to move to except for the fact that a lot of newer software will not run on their older machine any longer (and oddly most older software will eventually stop working as well, leaving OSX with a tiny-middle ground of software while Windows supports most of everything made in the past 12 years).
 
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MagnusVonMagnum said:
So it still has the crappy black & white icon interface they introduced a few versions ago that almost everybody on earth hates except Mr. Jobs and his church. Yay. :rolleyes:



I think you misunderstand. 32-bit app support will probably be removed entirely in 10.8 so Apple is moving towards this. They've already eliminated 32-bit CPU support in Lion and removing all 32-bit app support is the next logical progression in order for Apple to keep telling everyone OSX is the most advanced OS in the world despite the total BS that it is in context of 3D graphics and keeping said APIs up-to-date, etc. But then Mr. Jobs has always had an odd idea of what advanced means. He'll move one area of the OS as far as it can go and to hell with the consequences with backwards compatibility with older software, etc., but then leave OpenGL on version 2.x for a half decade, letting all gaming support rot in hell unless it's a phone app, etc.

Of course, the consequences for moving say the iOS app store to the primary Mac app store and away from iTunes would not only have consequences for Windows users, but it would render all Leopard machines obsolete over-night with no ability to support iOS devices. That will probably happen anyway since I doubt support for PPC will last much longer in iTunes and Intel users are expected to upgrade come hell or high water to the latest OS version if it means dumping Rosetta support, etc. that would leave them to conclude that Lion is a POS and an utter waste of time and money to move to except for the fact that a lot of newer software will not run on their older machine any longer (and oddly most older software will eventually stop working as well, leaving OSX with a tiny-middle ground of software while Windows supports most of everything made in the past 12 years).
Click to expand...

Either you don't get the concept of system-wide OpenGL 3.x [a first in the industry] that is being added or you think OpenGL ES 2.0 is more advanced than OpenGL 2.x--it's only a subset of the full 2.x stack.

Yes, Apple isn't releasing 3.3/4.1 drivers until they have system-wide support for 3.3.
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
So it still has the crappy black & white icon interface they introduced a few versions ago that almost everybody on earth hates except Mr. Jobs and his church. Yay. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Get used to it.

5479355085_fdbb633c5b.jpg


I think you misunderstand. 32-bit app support will probably be removed entirely in 10.8 so Apple is moving towards this. They've already eliminated 32-bit CPU support in Lion and removing all 32-bit app support is the next logical progression in order for Apple to keep telling everyone OSX is the most advanced OS in the world despite the total BS that it is in context of 3D graphics and keeping said APIs up-to-date, etc.
Click to expand...

Doubt it, Apple would have to purge and remove too many apps already in the Mac App Store and those using the current latest versions of iLife or iWork would be boned when they upgrade to 10.8.
 
Sbrocket said:
There are a number of ways to look into this that don't involve a hex editor, I don't know why people jump on that approach. /usr/bin/otool, /usr/bin/strings, and /usr/bin/file among others can give you lots of information. Of course, iTunes links against both Carbon.framework and Cocoa/AppKit.

And NS* classes are not necessarily Cocoa. NSAutoreleasePool and NSNumber are Foundation. You don't need a Cocoa UI to use the Foundation collection classes or to subclass NSObject, hah.

My unscientific guess is that iTunes isn't so easily categorizable because its probably a single codebase for both OS X and Windows, which results in some oddities at the user interface level. Not to mention that they do a lot of things custom with iTunes and don't really stick with standard NSWindow and brethren behaviors.

I really doubt they ported over the HIToolbox to 64-bit *just* for iTunes without giving it to third-party developers, though, which would mean iTunes would have to have a Cocoa UI.
Click to expand...

Foundation is part of Cocoa. Just because they extended Foundation to incorporate Carbon APIs during doesn't mean Foundation doesn't come from the NeXT Frameworks--I used to support them at NeXT and Apple, every day.

Cocoa is just a modern name given to the ever expanded nature of the Development Frameworks as a whole. They incorporated those Carbon APIs and once they made the decision to end of life those Carbon APIs they've been transitioning Cocoa back to it's roots--ObjC with C, and C++ through ObjC++ and other extension to interact that include Ruby and Python utilizing their specific MVC Model, and Hybrid Models.
 
I'm running Lion right now and want to take the plunge and see how 10.5 runs... before I do so is there an easy way to revert back to 10.3 if I find I don't want it anymore?
 
I can't imagine switching to Windows because it can't run itunes very well and I have so much invested in that app.
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
So it still has the crappy black & white icon interface they introduced a few versions ago that almost everybody on earth hates except Mr. Jobs and his church. Yay. :rolleyes:



I think you misunderstand. 32-bit app support will probably be removed entirely in 10.8 so Apple is moving towards this. They've already eliminated 32-bit CPU support in Lion and removing all 32-bit app support is the next logical progression in order for Apple to keep telling everyone OSX is the most advanced OS in the world despite the total BS that it is in context of 3D graphics and keeping said APIs up-to-date, etc. But then Mr. Jobs has always had an odd idea of what advanced means. He'll move one area of the OS as far as it can go and to **** with the consequences with backwards compatibility with older software, etc., but then leave OpenGL on version 2.x for a half decade, letting all gaming support rot in **** unless it's a phone app, etc.

Of course, the consequences for moving say the iOS app store to the primary Mac app store and away from iTunes would not only have consequences for Windows users, but it would render all Leopard machines obsolete over-night with no ability to support iOS devices. That will probably happen anyway since I doubt support for PPC will last much longer in iTunes and Intel users are expected to upgrade come **** or high water to the latest OS version if it means dumping Rosetta support, etc. that would leave them to conclude that Lion is a POS and an utter waste of time and money to move to except for the fact that a lot of newer software will not run on their older machine any longer (and oddly most older software will eventually stop working as well, leaving OSX with a tiny-middle ground of software while Windows supports most of everything made in the past 12 years).
Click to expand...

I guess 64-bit is the future, but I'd have to stay 32-bit on my 2006 iMac. You can essentially use 64-bit to throw RAM at the CPU problem, right?
 
Lesser Evets said:
iTunes has supported full-screen mode for years, maybe forever. What it needs to do is not black out a second monitor, thus rendering the computer useless while playing a movie.

Apple has a series of small, annoying problems with iTunes which it hasn't corrected forever. Example: can't play podcasts through as a list; it only plays one and resets everything. Why?

I wonder if anyone from Apple actually uses the basic program and thinks about the consumer. There is so much other tomfoolery and doodaddery within the program that makes it look quite slick and fun, but which does very little to improve the basic function: playing music/video and customizing the play to accommodate the user.
Click to expand...

I think the basic problem is iTunes has just got OLD. I mean even the name ... "tunes"? what about movies, tv shows, the app store, podcasts? And why is all the content in the "Music" folder? Um, my TV Shows and Apps are under Music? This is a legacy of a past long gone, and iTunes needs to be re-thought from the ground up, especially in the "post PC" world where it is no longer the ring-master for iPhones and iPads.

--Tim
 
I wonder whether this will improve performance on Windows. If not, never mind and I am going to get a Mac.
 
newfoundglory said:
i can't see how iTunes can ever be 100% Cocoa, as it would make maintaining iTunes on Windoze a nightmare! I get the feeling its a Cocoa UI with Carbon sitting underneath. I can't see how it could have been done any other way.
Click to expand...

Glad someone mentioned this. I was thinking the same thing.
 
jeanlain said:
The search field has the contextual menu of Cocoa text fields (spelling, grammar, etc.). So the iTunes 10.5 main window is Cocoa.
Click to expand...

Or,maybe its just the search field that is cocoa... you can mix them up as long as your using Carbon's HIView or Cocoas NSView to host those UI conponents.
 
The only thing I find shocking is that the iTunes 10.5 beta still supports Ping prominently.

Really Apple? You're sticking with Ping? :D
 
The desktop client for iTunes needs a makeover! The iOS iTunes/iPod is incredible, its appearance and interface is stunning. Only if they could bring it to the Mac. Let's hope for a new iTunes interface for Lion. I use this application the most (besides Finder and Safari lol), I would love a new look!
 
It'll eventually be like Windows where Quicktime has largely died on Windows where it still gets developed on the Mac platform.
 
Carbon references in crash report

Running OS X Lion DP4 with iTunes 10.5 beta. iTunes just crashed and I pasted the crash log in Word and found 21 references to Carbon in it, but none for Cocoa. Not sure if that means anything (I haven't really perused an OS X crash log before).

Attached is the crash log.
 

Attachments

  • iTunes 10.5b crash log.rtf.zip
    59.8 KB · Views: 82
bLink-404 said:
Running OS X Lion DP4 with iTunes 10.5 beta. iTunes just crashed and I pasted the crash log in Word and found 21 references to Carbon in it, but none for Cocoa. Not sure if that means anything (I haven't really perused an OS X crash log before).

Attached is the crash log.
Click to expand...

See a lot of NS references in there.
 
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