All i know is on my iMac DV SE in OS X.1, it sounds A LOT better. Mainly more thickness, depth, and bass.
All I need now is an iPod.
All I need now is an iPod.
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iTunes 2.0 available...
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SPG
macrumors 65816
Sorry, i was kicking back a few while typing that VBR thing last night. Yes VBR is a great way to get smaller file sizes, but don't kid yourself, there is a little degradation in quality...that's the trade off. The amount of quality lost vs. the amount of space gained all depends on how good a job the encoder does. If you're pressed for the space than VBR is great.
192VBR =160CBR? I don't know. It would be interesting to see somebody put it through more than a subjective test.
192VBR =160CBR? I don't know. It would be interesting to see somebody put it through more than a subjective test.
The VBR debate
So, the investigation forges ahead. SPG, I think you're right about the potential for degradation in quality, but like you said, it depends heavily on the encoding engine, and furthermore, on the material being encoded. I harken back to when DVD players were first becoming available, and the DTS vs. Dolby Digital debate was still a hotbed of argument. What it all came down to was the equipment the studio used to encode the soundtrack, and the material itself. Personally, I like MP3 for the ability to have quite a bit of material at my disposal, quickly and easily. I love this ability for broadcast...I take my TiBook with me to the studio, plug in one miniplug, and I can run my entire show with a few clicks and keystrokes. But when I get home...that's a different story. If I'm cleaning, or working around the house, it's nice to put on a mix, let iTunes pick from my songs, and just have music. But if I'm in a listening mood, where my sole purpose is to HEAR, I still think even the best-quality MP3 doesn't quite live up to vinyl or a well-produced CD.
And the whole 192 kbps VBR = 160 kbps CBR thing was just an example. Your results may vary. 🙂
In the interim, however, I'm eager to really give this a run for its money, test if VBR really is worth the hype. I'll keep everyone "posted." (rimshot)
So, the investigation forges ahead. SPG, I think you're right about the potential for degradation in quality, but like you said, it depends heavily on the encoding engine, and furthermore, on the material being encoded. I harken back to when DVD players were first becoming available, and the DTS vs. Dolby Digital debate was still a hotbed of argument. What it all came down to was the equipment the studio used to encode the soundtrack, and the material itself. Personally, I like MP3 for the ability to have quite a bit of material at my disposal, quickly and easily. I love this ability for broadcast...I take my TiBook with me to the studio, plug in one miniplug, and I can run my entire show with a few clicks and keystrokes. But when I get home...that's a different story. If I'm cleaning, or working around the house, it's nice to put on a mix, let iTunes pick from my songs, and just have music. But if I'm in a listening mood, where my sole purpose is to HEAR, I still think even the best-quality MP3 doesn't quite live up to vinyl or a well-produced CD.
And the whole 192 kbps VBR = 160 kbps CBR thing was just an example. Your results may vary. 🙂
In the interim, however, I'm eager to really give this a run for its money, test if VBR really is worth the hype. I'll keep everyone "posted." (rimshot)
Multimedia
macrumors 603
Same old LAME iTunes MISSING ESSENTIAL SoundJam preferences
Same old LAME iTunes MISSING ESSENTIAL SoundJam preferences
When will Apple learn to port an application they buy (SoundJam) with all of its preferences in tact. I am sick and tired of iTunes still missing the "add track number to track name" option that was always in SoundJam and which I still NEED to rip anything. It's one thing to hijack SoundJam from paying customers. But to eliminate ESSENTIAL features in the "FREE" reskinned SoundJam for OS X (iTunes) is one of the all time software rip offs of all time.
Apple doesn't listen to its customers and it certainly doesn't use the software it gives away or that preference never would have been removed from iTunes (reskinned SoundJam) in the first place.
I wish someone could get to Steve Jobs and ask him how he can use an album's track names without track numbers at the beginning of their filenames. If he has an answer, I would sure like to know what it is. Anybody else know how to keep track names in track order without adding their track numbers to the filenames? I don't believe it is possible.
And don't tell me it's in the iTunes interface. I know that. I am talking about the files in the album's folder - not tag info.
So I will continue to have to rip with SoundJam in system 9 because Apple made the iTunes author take it off the Cassidy & Greene website when they bought it. What a blanking rip off! I am livid about this simple option still missing since March when OS X shipped.
Apple should be ashamed of itself for screwing its music ripping customers to this extent. I am very angry and sick about this. I was sure iTunes 2 would have this feature reintroduced. I am shocked it doesn't.
Why weren't paying customers (owners) of SoundJam offered a fully featured iTunes for OS X with all of the SoundJam preferences in tact?
Same old LAME iTunes MISSING ESSENTIAL SoundJam preferences
When will Apple learn to port an application they buy (SoundJam) with all of its preferences in tact. I am sick and tired of iTunes still missing the "add track number to track name" option that was always in SoundJam and which I still NEED to rip anything. It's one thing to hijack SoundJam from paying customers. But to eliminate ESSENTIAL features in the "FREE" reskinned SoundJam for OS X (iTunes) is one of the all time software rip offs of all time.
Apple doesn't listen to its customers and it certainly doesn't use the software it gives away or that preference never would have been removed from iTunes (reskinned SoundJam) in the first place.
I wish someone could get to Steve Jobs and ask him how he can use an album's track names without track numbers at the beginning of their filenames. If he has an answer, I would sure like to know what it is. Anybody else know how to keep track names in track order without adding their track numbers to the filenames? I don't believe it is possible.
And don't tell me it's in the iTunes interface. I know that. I am talking about the files in the album's folder - not tag info.
So I will continue to have to rip with SoundJam in system 9 because Apple made the iTunes author take it off the Cassidy & Greene website when they bought it. What a blanking rip off! I am livid about this simple option still missing since March when OS X shipped.
Apple should be ashamed of itself for screwing its music ripping customers to this extent. I am very angry and sick about this. I was sure iTunes 2 would have this feature reintroduced. I am shocked it doesn't.
Why weren't paying customers (owners) of SoundJam offered a fully featured iTunes for OS X with all of the SoundJam preferences in tact?
Xapplimatic
macrumors 6502
Re: Same old LAME iTunes MISSING ESSENTIAL SoundJam preferences
One can't really be upset at Apple for buying you out.. It's a common business practice and not exclusive by any means to software. If anything, you can be upset at Cassidy & Greene for *selling* you out.
Then again, none of this prevents you from using the software you originally licensed. You licensed Sound Jam from Cassidy & Greene, and it's them you should be upset with for not caring enough about their existing customers to put a clause in the contract which would allow continued development of Sound Jam by licensing the technology in Sound Jam to Apple instead of a total buy-out. Remember, Cassidy & Greene failed their customers by giving up all rights to their product. Apple, on the other hand, only offered something new and free to it's customers. It's all a matter of perspective.
Be resourceful. iTunes doesn't require you not to have numbers in front of words in the name. It will accept any file name and accepts you renaming the files. If it really irks you so much that you absolutely have to have files buried deep in your harddrive named in such and such a way, then write an Apple Script or Real BASIC program for yourself and for anyone else who wants this naming convention which pulls the info out of the tags and adds it into the front of the filename like magic.. Nobody has to sit idly by and wait for Apple to do everything for us.. Complaining is useless when you aren't representing the majority of user concerns.. make something happen without them.
One can't really be upset at Apple for buying you out.. It's a common business practice and not exclusive by any means to software. If anything, you can be upset at Cassidy & Greene for *selling* you out.
Then again, none of this prevents you from using the software you originally licensed. You licensed Sound Jam from Cassidy & Greene, and it's them you should be upset with for not caring enough about their existing customers to put a clause in the contract which would allow continued development of Sound Jam by licensing the technology in Sound Jam to Apple instead of a total buy-out. Remember, Cassidy & Greene failed their customers by giving up all rights to their product. Apple, on the other hand, only offered something new and free to it's customers. It's all a matter of perspective.
Be resourceful. iTunes doesn't require you not to have numbers in front of words in the name. It will accept any file name and accepts you renaming the files. If it really irks you so much that you absolutely have to have files buried deep in your harddrive named in such and such a way, then write an Apple Script or Real BASIC program for yourself and for anyone else who wants this naming convention which pulls the info out of the tags and adds it into the front of the filename like magic.. Nobody has to sit idly by and wait for Apple to do everything for us.. Complaining is useless when you aren't representing the majority of user concerns.. make something happen without them.
blakespot
Administrator
I disagree with this. The bitrate you have set, when using VBR, is a guaranteed minimum, as stated by iTunes. So if you set 160Kbps and enable VBR, then you're going to "at least" get 160Kps encoding--but for complex portions of the audio, the bitrate increases, presumably based on the other quality setting (defaulting to "medium", I've set mine to "high").
Do you disagree with this?
blakespot
blakespot
Administrator
For Consistent Quality, use VBR
If you favor quality over filesize, use VBR.
Debate ended.
http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/answerstips/story/0,24330,2440593,00.html
blakespot
If you favor quality over filesize, use VBR.
Debate ended.
http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/answerstips/story/0,24330,2440593,00.html
blakespot
The VBR dust settles.
Thank you, blakespot, you bring up a good point...actually, the ONLY point, being that VBR ensures a constant bitrate. This is a strange animal, because half of the sources I consulted on this said it was to reduce filesize but attempt to get better quality, a quarter said it kept the same filesize, but redistributed the "attention," and the last quarter said it kept the minimum bitrate, expanding it if needed. So, I went with the majority. But, after mulling over this (iTunes itself says it uses the set bitrate as the minimum. Hello? Maybe I was "under the pot," as mymemory is so fond of saying) it does indeed come down to VBR equalling better quality, with varying filesizes. Sheesh. This is exhausting.
[Edited by TSEliotLives on 11-06-2001 at 12:41 PM]
Thank you, blakespot, you bring up a good point...actually, the ONLY point, being that VBR ensures a constant bitrate. This is a strange animal, because half of the sources I consulted on this said it was to reduce filesize but attempt to get better quality, a quarter said it kept the same filesize, but redistributed the "attention," and the last quarter said it kept the minimum bitrate, expanding it if needed. So, I went with the majority. But, after mulling over this (iTunes itself says it uses the set bitrate as the minimum. Hello? Maybe I was "under the pot," as mymemory is so fond of saying) it does indeed come down to VBR equalling better quality, with varying filesizes. Sheesh. This is exhausting.
[Edited by TSEliotLives on 11-06-2001 at 12:41 PM]
I sometimes wish Apple would buy more software and take out itty bitty features people uproar about.
🙂
🙂
Multimedia
macrumors 603
"Add Track Number to Filename" and "Add Extension to Filename" Preferences
Thanks for commenting on my comment. I don't know anything about how to write nor use AppleScript. I am an end user Bozo. I see your point about Cassidy & Greene. You are right. I hadn't thought of that.
My main point is that there is plenty of room in the iTunes preferences interface for both "Add Track Number to Filename" and "Add Extension to Filename" Preferences->Files->Converter from the original SoundJam code that went to Apple.
Is it really too confusing to the lay person to have those two preference options become a part of the iTunes Preference dialog boxes? Is it really too much to ask? Am I really being petty and unreasonable?
My mp3 recorder (Toast Platinum) and MP3 CD-R players (TDK MOJO and RioVolt) both require these track numbers and ".mp3" extensions to be a part of each filename for them to each work correctly. Is anybody listening to how much this is needed? Does NOBODY have a CD-R MP3 player out there? If you did, you would know what I am talking about. Thanks.
Please Steve Jobs I am begging you!!!
Thanks for commenting on my comment. I don't know anything about how to write nor use AppleScript. I am an end user Bozo. I see your point about Cassidy & Greene. You are right. I hadn't thought of that.
My main point is that there is plenty of room in the iTunes preferences interface for both "Add Track Number to Filename" and "Add Extension to Filename" Preferences->Files->Converter from the original SoundJam code that went to Apple.
Is it really too confusing to the lay person to have those two preference options become a part of the iTunes Preference dialog boxes? Is it really too much to ask? Am I really being petty and unreasonable?
My mp3 recorder (Toast Platinum) and MP3 CD-R players (TDK MOJO and RioVolt) both require these track numbers and ".mp3" extensions to be a part of each filename for them to each work correctly. Is anybody listening to how much this is needed? Does NOBODY have a CD-R MP3 player out there? If you did, you would know what I am talking about. Thanks.
Please Steve Jobs I am begging you!!!
SPG
macrumors 65816
Blakespot thanks for the link, I read the article and got some useful info out of it. VBR in MPEG video seems a slightly different beast so it's good to know the differences.
For me, the final thing to check to make sure that iTunes2 is actually making good on the VBR promise is if you can set minimums. I don't have it on my work machine and won't be able to look into this until tonight, but chances are I'll probably start using the VBR functions on my next rip.
Thanks.
For me, the final thing to check to make sure that iTunes2 is actually making good on the VBR promise is if you can set minimums. I don't have it on my work machine and won't be able to look into this until tonight, but chances are I'll probably start using the VBR functions on my next rip.
Thanks.
mymemory
macrumors 68020
iTunes 2 not stable
In my computer the control strip for the iTunes 2 doesn't work, it did for the firts version.
In my computer at the office (it is a G4 400 like mine), the option "Full Screen" for the Visuals doesn't work neither.
You are gonna end having a very expensive PC if Apple keeps going this way. No wonder no one wants to leave 9.2
In my computer the control strip for the iTunes 2 doesn't work, it did for the firts version.
In my computer at the office (it is a G4 400 like mine), the option "Full Screen" for the Visuals doesn't work neither.
You are gonna end having a very expensive PC if Apple keeps going this way. No wonder no one wants to leave 9.2
MacAztec
macrumors 68040
One Problem
This problem is not with iTunes, but it is related. I have a nice pair of yamaha speakers, hooked up correctly, but i cant adjust he volume at all. I have gone to my sound control settings and it still wont fix. Can somebody help me with this? Also, I believe iTunes is a wonderful prog. and i heard earlier that it did not work with somebody's control strip?? I dont know about that, because it seems to me that the features for the control strip are awesome.
This problem is not with iTunes, but it is related. I have a nice pair of yamaha speakers, hooked up correctly, but i cant adjust he volume at all. I have gone to my sound control settings and it still wont fix. Can somebody help me with this? Also, I believe iTunes is a wonderful prog. and i heard earlier that it did not work with somebody's control strip?? I dont know about that, because it seems to me that the features for the control strip are awesome.
iTunes Language options.
iTunes 2.0.2 is now downloadable, and available in English, French, German, and Japanese.
iTunes 2.0.2 is now downloadable, and available in English, French, German, and Japanese.