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January? Isn't it late already?

I seem to recall (please correct me if you can cite references) that Jobs said the Rendezvous-enabled streaming feature in iTunes would be here in September 2002, shortly after 'Jag-wire's release.

I'm pleased as punch to get a new iTunes, but I just wanted clarification that it's not early, but three months late...
 
Smart Visuals

Beat matching and bar generation from that would not be that hard... so the visuals could actually change up at a breakdown or a chorus of a song... it would make the visuals go with the music. instead of some colorized wave form.

Oh yeah, Rendezvous yeay yeay... i only have one computer now so...

And double a c is definitely a mega plus. I was in the process of digitizing all my records. I guess I'll stop and wait for iTunes 4. But I wonder how long is it going to be before Traktor Dj Studio can utilize double a c?:mad:
 
Re: Actually, it's known as "Lossy compression"

Originally posted by oldMac
To say that JPEG or MP3 don't qualify as compression is highbrow, silly and suggests that you may best belong in a university job rather than a job in the REAL WORLD where ACTUAL WORK gets done. :)

Well, at least it's just TRUE :)

But you're damn good: It has been told me at university....

Bensch

PS: Sorry for my english...
 
Rendezvous and Linux

If they could get it so I could put some type of rendezvous info thing on my linux file server, that'd be awesome.

That way, my 750+ CDs ripped to MP3s stored on my RAID5 array of IDE drives would be easilly searched through with iTunes so my wife and I could find the CDs we each like instead of having to add them.

Until they make a 360GB HDD for a laptop, I need to use my network :)
 
iTunes 4 WILL incorporate Rendezvous. I'm not certain what this "rumoe" means as too, as expected since it was told to us by the top guy himself (Jobs).

Also, I understood that iTunes just uses Quicktime for playing files, so whatever Quicktime can read, iTunes can too. Unfortunately I do not have any AAC content to try for myself. Having seen, or rather heard, a demostration of AAC quality, you can basically have the same quality out of a 64 bit rate AAC as you do from a 128 bit rate MP3, that means my 10GB iPod now can store 4,000 songs.

Don't worry about converting MP3's to AAC. Converting compressed audio to compressed audio will not work as you think since each encoding scheme works different. You'd have to encode AAC from your uncompressed source to get the benefit of the AAC quality and small file size.


All-Day
 
Re: iTunes 3.0.1

Originally posted by ennerseed
Has iTunes 3.0.1 been out? I just found it in my software update.

yeah its been out for quite some time, there really no difference in my opinion.

tyler
 
Re: Rendezvous and Linux

Originally posted by Trekkie
If they could get it so I could put some type of rendezvous info thing on my linux file server, that'd be awesome.

Well, if you know anyone good at Linux programming, have them download the Rendezvous source code and start working on it!

Hopefully, when iTunes 4 is released, it shouldn't take too much effort to determine how to make the two systems link up...
 
Originally posted by redAPPLE
isn't it a fact, if one converts .cda (normal cd files) to .mp3, it removes data that is not audible to a normal person.

i mean with audible, data that the human ear rarely hears.

that is the reason why .mp3 files are a lot smaller (well compression helps too).

but if .mp3 files have already been "compressed" and data removed which is not necessary, which part would still be removed to make .aac files a lot smaller.

maybe it is the compression, right?

MP3 works by approximating the sound waves, not by just "dropping" irrelevant sound.

A really bad analogy: Imagine lookng at a a wavy line function on an x/y axis. Now, you could go through and say, "at x=1, y=37; at x=2, y=35", etc. That's sampling. That's like PCM/WAV format audio.

You could also look at the line and say, "between x=0 and x=500, it resembles the equation y=38-x^2, and then between x=300 and x=800 it is more like y=x^3-17*x^2," etc (overlap intentional). That's more like (kinda sorta :) ) what MP3 does. It approximates to get a wave form that is "sorta" like what you started out with. And, yes, the standard defines what kinds of approximations are allowed to be made by how noticable such an approximation will be to the "average" user's ear. In standard MP3, the bitrate is defined, so you won't get the same "quality" of approximation amongst all bits of a song (for instance, pure silence will be very well approximated, but will take up just as much space per second as the flight of the bumblebee which is noticably lacking in accuracy); in "variable rate" MP3, the quality standard across any frame is kept consistent, and so the bitrate (bytes/second) required to meet that quality standard will shift from frame to frame.

AAC employs the same principles as MP3, but allows for more involved approximations. For instance, perhaps the two above approximations could be expressed more precisely with a single x^4 order function, and perhaps an x^5th order function would give even more fidelity compared to the original. Also, precisely what is "audible" to the human ear has changed between the standards, such that much of what MP3 dropped AAC keeps preferentially because it has been found that, yes, the human ear can distinguish the difference.

Note that the above functions are completely bogus; real MP3 approximations would involve sines and cosines, not x^n functions, as sound samples tend more towards sine/cosine waveforms than arbitrary x^n functions.
 
Mpeg4 and AAC is actually integrated into Quicktime, which means iTunes already plays mp4s. If you pay for Quicktime Pro, you can convert cds to mp4 and play them in iTunes already. I guess iTunes "supporting mp4" means that mp4 will be an option when importing directly into iTunes? Will iPod be able to play mp4s with a software update, or would that require a new decoder chip inside?
 
" To say that JPEG or MP3 don't qualify as
compression is highbrow, silly and suggests that
you may best belong in a university job rather
than a job in the REAL WORLD where ACTUAL WORK gets done."



no offense to the guy i pulled this quote from,
but why do we act like this? i can understand
correcting someone when their wrong but
personal attacks like this seem to be the norm
and what we thrive on....its strange.




.
 
Originally posted by TyleRomeo
forget MP4/AAC and just import full AIFF files on your computers. Why bother why lossy compression and audio quality loss. Of course you need to get yourself about 500GB though. Which should be a problem with hard drives getting huge. IBM has a 2.5 inch 80GB drive, maxotr is working with 80GB per platter and early next year we will see drives that are 100 GB per platter. ohh and im sure technology will advance and we will have larger 1.8 inch drives. So im saying we'll have a 30GB or 40 GB iPod by next MWNY.

tyler

Aw, heck. You get a PowerMac. Buy four of the Maxtor 200GB drives, and there you have 800gigs of space. Today. You can even throw in a few more on FireWire if the urge overtakes you.

Damn, I remember drooling over a friend's computer that had 800 MB of space!

Personally, I can't hear any differences on 192kbps MP3's (fortunately I have highly untrained ears), so uncompressed isn't worth it to me. AAC would keep the same level of quality (for newly ripped audio) at half the space consumption, so I'd welcome it.
 
Just a joke...

Originally posted by beatle888
" To say that JPEG or MP3 don't qualify as
compression is highbrow, silly and suggests that
you may best belong in a university job rather
than a job in the REAL WORLD where ACTUAL WORK gets done."

no offense to the guy i pulled this quote from,
but why do we act like this on?

.

Hi beatle,

I didn't mean offense to anyone. It was just meant as a joke, but you neglected to quote my smiley. :)
 
Originally posted by CJYetman
Mpeg4 and AAC is actually integrated into Quicktime, which means iTunes already plays mp4s. If you pay for Quicktime Pro, you can convert cds to mp4 and play them in iTunes already. I guess iTunes "supporting mp4" means that mp4 will be an option when importing directly into iTunes? Will iPod be able to play mp4s with a software update, or would that require a new decoder chip inside?
Yes, you can drop an aac into iTunes and it will play, but it will not support the equalizer, information tags and many other features.

Everybody here's saying how it's stupid to convcert an mp3 into an aac. I think about it and figure out why you say that, but I just did a test. I made a 96kbps AAC from a 192kbps MP3. I told QT to play them at the same time. I tabbed back and forth between the two files listening to the deep sounds and the highs and the mids looping sections of the song over and over again and I couldn't hear any difference and the aac file was exactly half the size of the mp3. So, my question is what's stupid about ripping mp3s into aacs? I know it's probably something that I have to hear on speakers only the five richest kings of Europe can afford, but if that's so, what's the problom of doing it if your only gonna use your $25 Sony wrap around headphones?
 
Re: Re: Re: iTunes 4 and Rendezvous

Originally posted by DaveGee I work in NYC and I was at the keynote so I know I saw that demo... It was MWNY 1st and then a follow-up demo (maybe with a more specific time frame?) in Paris.D
Okay, my fault then. He showed it in Paris in september and I hadn't seen it before - I watched the NY-keynote on streaming.

Okay, I was wrong - I apoligize.

k.
 
Re: Just a joke...

Originally posted by oldMac


Hi beatle,

I didn't mean offense to anyone. It was just meant as a joke, but you neglected to quote my smiley. :)


sorry, i must be overly sensitive today.
 
I remember Steve doing a demo of iTunes with Rendezvous at both MacWorld Paris and MWNY.
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
Get with the picture Apple. I have ripped a large portion of my cds and this is in excess of 2500 songs. Yes I know there is the Organize feature but this is hardly a personalized function. I want to be able to organize my music anyway possible. It seems to me that with the OSX and the iApps Apple has taken more and more personalization away from us. What makes a Mac great? The ability to make it yours. What makes a WinPC a WinPC? The fact that yours is just like everyother one out there. Just one of the hord from 1984.

Just turn off iTunes' automatic organization and organize your music folder however you choose. Mine is fairly well organized...
 

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Originally posted by wdw_ Everybody here's saying how it's stupid to convcert an mp3 into an aac. I think about it and figure out why you say that, but I just did a test. I made a 96kbps AAC from a 192kbps MP3. I told QT to play them at the same time. I tabbed back and forth between the two files listening to the deep sounds and the highs and the mids looping sections of the song over and over again and I couldn't hear any difference and the aac file was exactly half the size of the mp3. So, my question is what's stupid about ripping mp3s into aacs? I know it's probably something that I have to hear on speakers only the five richest kings of Europe can afford, but if that's so, what's the problom of doing it if your only gonna use your $25 Sony wrap around headphones?
Compare them both their uncompressed source and see if you can hear a difference.

Plus, making it difficult to do this to the average user (ie: Not providing a button for it in iTunes) would be a nod to the RIAA and, hopefully, keep them off Apple's backs.
 
Originally posted by jettredmont


Damn, I remember drooling over a friend's computer that had 800 MB of space!

That much? I remember when our 40 MB drive was huge. And then later we bought a whopping 200 MB external drive (my mom was a graphic artist-- we had to indulge a bit :)). You had to turn it on and wait ~30 seconds for it to spin up before starting up the computer!

Heck, I remember before that when having a hard drive at all was noteworthy.

:)
 
Re: Ah yes...

Originally posted by Bradcoe
I can't wait until my home stereo has "Tuner, CD, DVD, Computer, etc, etc..." Away will go the the yucky LED and calculator LCD type displays. Full 5 or 8 inch Color LCD's on the front of one fairly large "Tuner-replacement" box. Browse your DVD player, CD Player, or even ANY audio/video files on your computer. Stream them all wireless to you wonderful home stereo speakers.

Integration of HomeEntertainment systems and Computers multi-media functions should be Apples immediate future.

From the looks of this article:

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-965565.html

it seems like this technology is already available to a certain degree with Vaios in Japan. It says they will be disabling DVD streaming when this is brought to the U.S. (I have no idea why though).
 
Originally posted by Dephex Twin


That much? I remember when our 40 MB drive was huge. And then later we bought a whopping 200 MB external drive (my mom was a graphic artist-- we had to indulge a bit :)). You had to turn it on and wait ~30 seconds for it to spin up before starting up the computer!

Heck, I remember before that when having a hard drive at all was noteworthy.

:)

Well, as a relative newbie, my first computer had a 40MB drive (which was just slightly above average at the time at least in my "cheap PC" market view) ... And the guy down the hall in our dorm had 800MBs in a massive tower case ... I think those were 8 SCSI-based 100MB drives but I'm not 100% sure about that ... This was 1991 ... 1000x improvement in 11 years (although, if you add up the storage on *all* my computers at home and work I have ... ummm ... 350GB I believe, but only my Macs have more than 30GB on them)!

Fortunately or unfortunately, I was spared the agony of owning floppy-based computers, although a few of my friends had such beasts over the years.
 
Originally posted by JtheLemur
Too bad that Rendezvous is only really suited for home networks or small corporate ones - it doesn't work across subnets!! I was planning on using iChat to stay in touch with my tech crew while running around the building, but our wireless network is on a different VLAN than our Mac desktops which are on a different VLAN than our server room...

Granted, it's early, but come on! That's a really basic requirement of a network protocol... I could always use port forwarding but it may be more trouble than it's worth...

It's the simple nature of a broadcast based networking protocol that it wont work accross subnets. Your subnet is your broadcast domain. Rendezvous has no way of knowing that those other boxes exist. You have to have a lot of pain in the but stuff to make it work accross subnets. MS has it kinda in NetBIOS. Boxes hold elections and keep the database of NetBIOS info for each subnet then communicate it with each other. Serious pain. Anyone that's ever gone to network neighborhood knows how it just doesn't work right either. Apple did the right thing. If you want broadcasts to forward to other subnets you can set it up on Cisco routers, but it's not worth it. Nasty traffic everywhere.
 
Originally posted by wdw_

Yes, you can drop an aac into iTunes and it will play, but it will not support the equalizer, information tags and many other features.

Everybody here's saying how it's stupid to convcert an mp3 into an aac. I think about it and figure out why you say that, but I just did a test. I made a 96kbps AAC from a 192kbps MP3. I told QT to play them at the same time. I tabbed back and forth between the two files listening to the deep sounds and the highs and the mids looping sections of the song over and over again and I couldn't hear any difference and the aac file was exactly half the size of the mp3. So, my question is what's stupid about ripping mp3s into aacs? I know it's probably something that I have to hear on speakers only the five richest kings of Europe can afford, but if that's so, what's the problom of doing it if your only gonna use your $25 Sony wrap around headphones?

There are many reasons you may not notice a difference between these files:
1.)192 is a fairly good quality mp3 to begin with. It's not 320Kps, but hey... Since the problems of artifacting compound the smaller the file size. 128kps Mp3 to 64Kps AAC with have significantly more artifacting than 192Kps Mp3 to 96Kps AAC. Which will have significantly more artifacts than320Kps Mp3 to 160Kps AAC. Bottom line, the lower quality your Mp3s the more likely you will have to reencode straight from the source to get acceptable quality.

2.) Encoding throws away different amounts of information depending on the source code. What do I mean by that? If you had a 25MB file of a synth playing a sine wave, a 128kps Mp3 would recreate the sound without any artifacts. Heck, a 64kPs Mp3 could probably do it. On the other hand, a file of an orchestra playing Bach in the background while people argued in the foreground might have noticable artifacts at 192Kps. Every song has a different amount of complexity, so saying that because Mp3 to AAC works for one song means it will work for all does not neccessarily follow.

3.)Different encoders have different levels of quality. The Mp3 standard doesn't say which trade-offs to make when encoding a song. It just says which trade-offs are possible. Each different encoder (lame, etc.) makes different decisions of what info to throw out, where to tweak things, how to make the quality compromises necessary to fit a big raw file into a small file space. And, as in the first point, the higher the quality of the initial encoding the less likely you are to notice artifacting when re-encoding it.

4.) The telephone effect. Though you may not be able to hear differences between the Mp3 and AAC, try listening to the source material. You may find that though the Mp3 and AAC sound alike at a certain point, the AAC and Source will have a greater difference than the Mp3 and source.

Bottom line. The higher quality your initial Mp3's the better luck you'll have converting them to AAC. The problem you're going to run into is when you try to convert that already crappy encoding of the live version of that song you love that was bootlegged by the guy standing in the back. And we all have a few of those don't we.
 
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