iTunes File Size Limit for Movies?

[Michael73]

I've used Handbrake to encode several movies. Because I wanted them as "lossless" as possible they were encoded used H.264 (and are m4v files) and are in the 7-8GB range.

I'm not actually importing the movies but just pointing iTunes to the drive they sit on. For some reason it won't add them to the iTunes library. What gives? Is there a file size limit?

 

[p.luik]

Use the same HB settings but only encode a chapter to see if it is the file format or the file size. Get back to us, please.

 

[Sky Blue]

Are these HD movies? Seems like a huge size.

 

[Michael73]

Use the same HB settings but only encode a chapter to see if it is the file format or the file size. Get back to us, please.

I know it's not the file format or codec because I used the exact same settings to encode a shorter movie (in fact, they were all encoded in the same queue) and it came out to be 3.43GB and it imported no problem.

 

[p.luik]

Thanks, unfortunately, I cant help you until I go home this afternoon. What are your "lossless" settings?

 

[Michael73]

Are these HD movies? Seems like a huge size.

No but I wish they were. I get pretty close with my upscaling DVD player, the Yamaha amp which has another upscaling chip and the display on my 52" Samsung LCD screen. Everything is hooked up using HDMI cables and the sound is awesome using a 5.1 Klipsch SL series speakers.

Basically, with HDDs being so cheap (I got 2, 1.5TB drives at BestBuy 2 weeks ago for $119.99 each) there isn't much incentive to compress the original files that much.

 

[Michael73]

Thanks, unfortunately, I cant help you until I go home this afternoon. What are your "lossless" settings?

I'm sure the size has to do with the average bitrate I'm using but anyway, here at the settings I used for a movie whose encoded file size was 7.46GB. The movie itself is 2h56m25s. Ironically, the original file size was 7.35GB

As an example:

Codec: H.264
Output Format: MP4 file
Framerate: Same as Source, 2-pass encoding, turbo first pass
Quality: Average bitrate (kbps): 6000
I set the Average at 2000 per hour of movie
Audio: bitrate always set at 160
Picture settings:
Keep aspect ratio: Off
Crop: Auto
Denoise: Off
Detelecine: No
Deinterlace: Off
Deblock: Off
Decomb: Off

 

[Michael73]

Very interesting...

I just re-encoded the same movie with identical settings except for the Average Quality Bitrate. Instead of setting the it at a rate of 2000kbps per hour of movie, I notched it down to 1,500kbps per hour resulting in a setting of 4500 since the movie is just about 3 hours. The resulting encode is 5.62GB. Unfortunately, the result is the same - iTunes would not add it to it's library.

So, I'm currently re-encoding it again, this time at a rate of 1000kbps per hour of movie so now I set it at 3000. I'll let everyone know what the final file size is and whether it imports.

 

[p.luik]

Im confuse as to why when you adjust the average bitrate in kbps, you consider the length of the movie. You are setting the average bitrate per second, not per hour. Please explain.

 

[Sky Blue]

Why not try Constant quality anything over 65% is useless bloat.

 

[Michael73]

Im confuse as to why when you adjust the average bitrate in kbps, you consider the length of the movie. You are setting the average bitrate per second, not per hour. Please explain.

Point taken. Short answer...I dunno Maybe I read it somewhere in a Handbrake forum? All I know is that toying with that setting seems to have a direct impact on the output file size and it seems to correspond in MB. In other words when I encode using certain codecs, if I set the kbps at 2000 then I get approximately a 2GB file for a 2 hour movie. If I set it at 1000 kbps then the movie comes out approx 1GB. I'm not sure about using the Constant Quality setting...

The bottom line is that I'm still trying to figure out if there is a maximum file size (which I believe to be in the 4GB range) that can be added to a library. Does anyone know?

 

[p.luik]

I use 2500 kbps average bitrate.I wouldn't go below this as it starts to look less than DVD quality.

 

[Ivan P]

Point taken. Short answer...I dunno Maybe I read it somewhere in a Handbrake forum? All I know is that toying with that setting seems to have a direct impact on the output file size and it seems to correspond in MB. In other words when I encode using certain codecs, if I set the kbps at 2000 then I get approximately a 2GB file for a 2 hour movie. If I set it at 1000 kbps then the movie comes out approx 1GB. I'm not sure about using the Constant Quality setting...

The bottom line is that I'm still trying to figure out if there is a maximum file size (which I believe to be in the 4GB range) that can be added to a library. Does anyone know?

First, kps = kilobytes per second. I don't know where you're getting it that it's apparently for every hour. Second, the smaller the KPS, then the lower the quality of the finished film will be - if you encode something at 2000kps then again at 1000kps, the one encoded at 1000kps will have a lower visual quality than the first file; that's also why the file size for a 1000kps video is smaller than the 2000kps video - because it's of lower quality, not as much information is needed for the file, thus it is remarkably smaller than the higher-quality file.
Quite honestly, if you're only intending to watch these rips on an iPod then it's a total waste. I have several 2-hour long movies on my iPod touch that are barely 900MB in size, and the quality is totally fine for a screen that size (no artefacts at all).

 

[Michael73]

Quite honestly, if you're only intending to watch these rips on an iPod then it's a total waste. I have several 2-hour long movies on my iPod touch that are barely 900MB in size, and the quality is totally fine for a screen that size (no artefacts at all).

If you'd read the whole thread, you would have seen that I'm trying to get near lossless reproduction on a 52" Samsung 1080P (LN52A750) LCD. Again, I'm almost completely unconcerned about file size given my 1.5TB drives. The issue is whether or not iTunes can handle really big files.

 

[DoFoT9]

interesting:

you take all the trouble of converting at lossless video yet your audio is only 160kb.. what gives????

p.s. ill try import a massive file when i get home and see how it goes for you.

 

[Michael73]

you take all the trouble of converting at lossless video yet your audio is only 160kb.. what gives????

p.s. ill try import a massive file when i get home and see how it goes for you.

Doh! You're absolutely right. I guess I've been using the "wrong" Audio codec - AAC. When chosen, the max kbps you can choose is 160. If you choose the codec AC3 Passthru the kb box grays out and changes to 448kbps. I'll use the AC3 in the future.

Let me know your success on doing a massive file import.

 

[DoFoT9]

Doh! You're absolutely right. I guess I've been using the "wrong" Audio codec - AAC. When chosen, the max kbps you can choose is 160. If you choose the codec AC3 Passthru the kb box grays out and changes to 448kbps. I'll use the AC3 in the future.

Let me know your success on doing a massive file import.

AC3 only does 448kbps does it?? i thought it did higher.. obviously not i always try to encode in AC3 basically because it goes way higher then AAC (in handbrake anyways)..

i just got home, you know what i figured out, i dont have access to my external drive where the "big" video files are stored because the external case is out of whack! i will finish the work i have to do 2nite and then swap the video HD with another case if you wish?? in the mean time ill convert a DVD image that i have, make it the biggest size i can, and get back to you.. give me a while to convert it though

 

[Michael73]

in the mean time ill convert a DVD image that i have, make it the biggest size i can, and get back to you.. give me a while to convert it though

Thanks. I'll be interested to see what success you have. Just out of curiosity, what are your encode times for a 2 hour movie? Things tend to go pretty quickly on the MP as it uses all 8 of my cores.

 

[DoFoT9]

Thanks. I'll be interested to see what success you have. Just out of curiosity, what are your encode times for a 2 hour movie? Things tend to go pretty quickly on the MP as it uses all 8 of my cores.

just woke up (after 5 hrs sleep) using your encode times with my 2.4GHz hackintosh (only stock clocked atm) it takes around 30-40mins for the first pass, then around 1.2-1.4hrs for the 2nd pass (60fps 1st pass, 20fps 2nd pass)..

handbrake froze before it finished encoding, STUPID SVN! ill do it again with 0.9.3. the file was 4.9gb ill be back in a few hours with results haha.

oh a question, do you use anamorphic in your picture settings?? you didnt use it so i did use it in mine.. i just always normally use it because its better (i think)

edit: this 0.9.3 seems to be getting better encode rates, 70fps for pass 1 so far! 35mins..

 

[NightStorm]

6000 ABR is a complete waste of time and hard drive space when converting DVD MPEG2 to h264 MP4. Use the new AppleTV preset and bump the CQ value to 62-63% and be done with it.

oh a question, do you use anamorphic in your picture settings?? you didnt use it so i did use it in mine.. i just always normally use it because its better (i think)

I'd recommend using anamorphic whenever possible, for the reasons stated in the Handbrake anamorphic guide in the wiki on the HB site.

 

[DoFoT9]

6000 ABR is a complete waste of time and hard drive space when converting DVD MPEG2 to h264 MP4. Use the new AppleTV preset and bump the CQ value to 62-63% and be done with it.


I'd recommend using anamorphic whenever possible, for the reasons stated in the Handbrake anamorphic guide in the wiki on the HB site.

ahh great, just read the whole wiki on it (here) and i am now going to use "loose" anamorphic because it keeps the ratio perfectly i normally always use strict. thanks

 

[DoFoT9]

Found The Problem!!!

hey OP, finally found the problem. had to encode 3 times to figure it out.

in handbrake there is a setting to support "large files" i guess this must make everything "just work", see the picture below to find out where it is. its all good now i could import the 4.93gb file no problems.

goodluck!

 

[Michael73]

hey OP, finally found the problem. had to encode 3 times to figure it out.

in handbrake there is a setting to support "large files" i guess this must make everything "just work", see the picture below to find out where it is. its all good now i could import the 4.93gb file no problems.

goodluck!

Awesome - thanks! Of course I'd seen this checkbox before but I really had no idea what it did. I'll try and re-encode and let you know if it works.

 

[Rich1963]

Just as an aside to your file question about max file size, I encoded Lord of the Rings: Extended Edition awhile back, and after joining the two DVDs for each movie and then encoding them, one of the video files was around 9 GB (I have several audio tracks on there, as well). iTunes swallowed it like a - well, we won't go there (and it was a good one), but it did take the whole load, no problems.

I also have been curious about what the maximum file size is that itunes could take, but I think the issue you would run into would be finding a source material with a long enough run time to create a file that big (you can't just bloat the encode, as you'll hit the AppleTV bitrate ceiling). If memory serves me correct, even the guys doing Blu-ray encodes end up with files in the 12-15 GB range at times, and they go in. Anyone ever find a cap on actual size?

Also, not to further hijack, has anyone heard of or know of a ceiling on the maximum amount of media iTunes can theoretically handle? For a free media program, it sure works well managing my 1000+/- movies/TV shows and 4000 songs.