iTunes for Windows... and AOL?

[trebblekicked]

there's more call for indie stuff on these boards then i thought there would be...to that issue, all i could find was the usual suspects (liz phair, spoon, built to spill) nothing from the biggest of the indies, though (pavement, belle & sebastian), and i have all that anyway. when merge, matador and thrill jockey are signed up, i'll take another look.🙂

the notion of itunes on/and apple revenue from PC's sounds fantastic. i say port the whole kittencaboodle, all the bells and whistles, and encourage them to pay, pay, pay for their music. the imac may have been the last great hardware cash cow. from here on out, it's how you get people to spend once they have their computer (ie: software, peripherals, content).

Lets see. software? check. peripherals? check. content? check. Apple has just positioned themselves to remain competitive in the tech market.

 

[Cecret]

I didn't say it,
but it's true;
This is when it all changed.

 

[Vanilla]

As a UK resident I for one am absolutely livid that iTunes musicstore is only available to the US.

Its bad enough having to STILL suffer a crippled iPhoto system (no means of building a book) but now we get yet another cool feature that we in the UK are not allowed to use.

Now to add insult to injury it appears that PC users will get to use this system FIRST!!

Can Apple not understand how insulted/slighted and frankly ignored international Mac users feel?

And please, no rubbish about infrastructure. We know what credit cards are, we have Electronic Fund transfer systems in place, the majority of us use online banks and we even get our salaries paid directly into our bank accounts (woohoo).

No, this smacks either of a myopic US centric vision of the World or its Music companies wanting to screw every last penny out of us by forcing us Brits to pay premium prices on CD's before they allow us to enjoy the new paradigm.

I would like to think its the latter, sad as it is.
Vanilla
PS: Apologies for the rant, but I had to release the anger I felt when I read the reports last night. I've sent a similar email to Apple, for all the good it will do.😡

 

[dguisinger]

Originally posted by Vanilla
As a UK resident I for one am absolutely livid that iTunes musicstore is only available to the US.

Its bad enough having to STILL suffer a crippled iPhoto system (no means of building a book) but now we get yet another cool feature that we in the UK are not allowed to use.

Now to add insult to injury it appears that PC users will get to use this system FIRST!!

Can Apple not understand how insulted/slighted and frankly ignored international Mac users feel?

And please, no rubbish about infrastructure. We know what credit cards are, we have Electronic Fund transfer systems in place, the majority of us use online banks and we even get our salaries paid directly into our bank accounts (woohoo).

No, this smacks either of a myopic US centric vision of the World or its Music companies wanting to screw every last penny out of us by forcing us Brits to pay premium prices on CD's before they allow us to enjoy the new paradigm.

I would like to think its the latter, sad as it is.
Vanilla
PS: Apologies for the rant, but I had to release the anger I felt when I read the reports last night. I've sent a similar email to Apple, for all the good it will do.😡

Have you bothered to consider that iPhoto's printing service uses Kodak's services? Have you looked into whether or not Kodak does online photo printing outside of the US? Apple is HEAVILY reliant on partners...iPhoto - Kodak, iTunes - The music industry......even .Mac is dependant on companies for things such as anti-virus scanning. Steve Jobs mentioned "for now" it is US only. I am sure it will change, but licensing restrictions, and existing exclusive channel distribution agreements are in place for different regions of the world. Apple either has to wait for them to expire, or negotiate with the distribution partner for that region. Remember, the last thing Apple wants to do is get sued

 

[Vanilla]

Originally posted by dguisinger
Have you bothered to consider that iPhoto's printing service uses Kodak's services? Have you looked into whether or not Kodak does online photo printing outside of the US? Apple is HEAVILY reliant on partners...iPhoto - Kodak, iTunes - The music industry......even .Mac is dependant on companies for things such as anti-virus scanning. Steve Jobs mentioned "for now" it is US only. I am sure it will change, but licensing restrictions, and existing exclusive channel distribution agreements are in place for different regions of the world. Apple either has to wait for them to expire, or negotiate with the distribution partner for that region. Remember, the last thing Apple wants to do is get sued

With regards to iPhoto.....

http://wwwuk.kodak.com/UK/en/nav/digital.jhtml
http://www.photobox.co.uk/
http://www.fotoview.co.uk/main.asp

And there are others. Naturally to this day not a word has been heard from Apple concerning future intentions.

Look, the issue is Apple are choosing to serve the US first - and then PC users for Gods sake - BEFORE serving their own international users.

To me that isnt exactly good customer service. Not wanting to get sued is admirable, but at the expense of ignoring their own customer base outside of the US of A? Why on earth couldnt they have negotiated global deals FIRST before releasing the system?

Bottom line, what I am most angry about is the decision to serve PC users before International Mac users. That really sticks in my throat.
Vanilla

 

[Bengt77]

Re:

Originally posted by Vanilla
No, this smacks either of a myopic US centric vision of the World or its Music companies wanting to screw every last penny out of us by forcing us Brits to pay premium prices on CD's before they allow us to enjoy the new paradigm.

Yeah, luckily the rest of Europe is able to use the iTunes Shop. NOT! Why are you only thinking about yourself? Are you so ego-centric and chauvenistic? Heck, the whole world is left out from iTunes Shop; only people in the US get to use it. Indeed, a bummer. Or were you sympathizing too much with Blair, Bush' playdoll? In that case I can see why you, as a Brit, are especially disappointed that the 52nd state is being ignored!

Yeah, I'm really, really sorry for you that the UK is being left out. Too bad the Netherlands is being left out too. And France, Germany, Japan, China, Brazil, Australia, Burundi; those countries too. Heck, even Iraq is being left out. Isn't that a shame?!...

Just my opinion; shut up and wait. I'll do the same. I'm just extremely thrilled Apple has done this all; it's amazing, and it WILL reflect in Mac sales, as I'm sure. I, as a Mac user, can only welcome that, can't you? Or are you a Brit first, Mac user second? I thought 'we' were such a nice, warm family, wherever 'we' lived. I guess I'm wrong, and that would be a shame. Has the Mac community failed? Is it the world against itself now? (Or better: each country against the others?) I sure hope that's not it.

Oh well, whatever. At least I'm pretty happy here in Europe. If you're not, just move to the mothership (since the UK really is beginning to be shaped as being the 52nd state).

Sorry for all this utter crap, but crap shoots crap. Just like cops shoot cops, and thiefs catch thiefs. (Heck, and even like eyes 'do' eyes and tooths 'do' tooths, isn't it?!... 🙂

*GONE*

[EDIT: Besides, if you had just taken the time to go out and read the full stories on MacNN and MacCentral, you might have gotten a clue as to why the service isn't there for 'us' foreign users yet. Guess what? It's not Apple's fault? Who's it is, then? The music industry's, of course! The Big 5 wanted to wait and see what happened with it, before going out and let Apple 'do' it for the whole world.]

 

[Vanilla]

Re: Re:

Originally posted by Bengt77
Yeah, luckily the rest of Europe is able to use the iTunes Shop. NOT! Why are you only thinking about yourself? Are you so ego-centric and chauvenistic? Heck, the whole world is left out from iTunes Shop; only people in the US get to use it. Indeed, a bummer. Or were you sympathizing too much with Blair, Bush' playdoll? In that case I can see why you, as a Brit, are especially disappointed that the 52nd state is being ignored!

Yeah, I'm really, really sorry for you that the UK is being left out. Too bad the Netherlands is being left out too. And France, Germany, Japan, China, Brazil, Australia, Burundi; those countries too. Heck, even Iraq is being left out. Isn't that a shame?!...

Just my opinion; shut up and wait. I'll do the same. I'm just extremely thrilled Apple has done this all; it's amazing, and it WILL reflect in Mac sales, as I'm sure. I, as a Mac user, can only welcome that, can't you? Or are you a Brit first, Mac user second? I thought 'we' were such a nice, warm family, wherever 'we' lived. I guess I'm wrong, and that would be a shame. Has the Mac community failed? Is it the world against itself now? (Or better: each country against the others?) I sure hope that's not it.

Oh well, whatever. At least I'm pretty happy here in Europe. If you're not, just move to the mothership (since the UK really is beginning to be shaped as being the 52nd state).

Sorry for all this utter crap, but crap shoots crap. Just like cops shoot cops, and thiefs catch thiefs. (Heck, and even like eyes 'do' eyes and tooths 'do' tooths, isn't it?!... 🙂

*GONE*

[EDIT: Besides, if you had just taken the time to go out and read the full stories on MacNN and MacCentral, you might have gotten a clue as to why the service isn't there for 'us' foreign users yet. Guess what? It's not Apple's fault? Who's it is, then? The music industry's, of course! The Big 5 wanted to wait and see what happened with it, before going out and let Apple 'do' it for the whole world.]

I am a UK resident hence my anger was naturally directed at the inability to receive this in the UK. However I of course recognise that this includes ALL non-US users.

If you actually read my two posts you will see the term "International users", as by way of example: "Look, the issue is Apple are choosing to serve the US first - and then PC users for Gods sake - BEFORE serving their own international users."

I am pissed for all NON US mac users. There is a petition doing the rounds as well, which you may like to sign.

Finally with regard to MacNN/Maccentral, the maccentral note came out today, whereas I reacted to yesterdays news. Secondly, Apples comment: "It has to do with the way the record industry is structured and our contracts with the record companies -- we have every intension of expanding the service internationally." simply highlights my point.

Why did they not work out their contracts with the record companies to allow at least a limited service to International users before releasing the service?

Why also do they not at the very least offer an estimated timeline?

Would you REALLY be happy to find yourself still waiting 12 months down the line, as all International users are with iPhoto??

Dont you feel even a little aggrieved that Windows users have a clear timeframe for their chance to use this service BEFORE you even know when you will get the opportunity?

I say again, this was a real kick in the teeth to all International users of Mac software/hardware and shows that, after all, Apple is no different to many other US companies in their US centric view of the world. After the debacle of Sherlock 3 and iPhoto, this is one kick too many imo.
Vanilla

 

[Bengt77]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: International Users...

Originally posted by Vanilla
I say again, this was a real kick in the teeth to all International users of Mac software/hardware and shows that, after all, Apple is no different to many other US companies in their US centric view of the world. After the debacle of Sherlock 3 and iPhoto, this is one kick too many imo.

Yeah, you have a point there. I like the path Apple has chosen to walk, but they should at least take their international friends with them. It's a shame they have chosen not to. Yet. Our time will come. And I rather hope sooner than later (of course).

But yes, you're right. I hate it too. What they HAVEN'T done, I mean. But that's not to say I don't like what they HAVE done. Come on, this whole new software/service thing they're (only starting to be) doing now is awesome! Way beyond anything Microsoft has done as of late, if you ask me.

(Well, that deal with some US cinema chain that made sure MS would provide the movies digitally in Windows Media format was quite big too, really.)

Don't you just love international users?! What's the equation now? Are there even more international than US ones? I'd like to know that...

 

[sparks9]

Re: ...not good.

Originally posted by mxpiazza
now i'm not a greedy little fanboy that dosen't want apple to expand to increase profit and and market share, and i would love to see apple just take a huge bite out of the 97% of said marketshare that windows controls. however, when i switched from PC to mac, it was because of all of those little "i" applications... iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, etc... if apple starts peddling these programs over to the windows world, i think it would really kill, or seriously disable, the whole idea of a "switcher". i mean, now i know how much more seamless macs are than PC... but to someone that is on a PC and dosen't want to switch over to a new OS, if they could stay on windows and get all of the apple i-apps that everyone covets... why would they switch? i think this deal, which would undoubtedly bring in huge profits short term could really damage the user base over the long term. any thoughts?

So you are saying that you only bought a mac because of iTunes? They are not gonna bring all the iApps to windows, just iTunes. That wont make that big a change.
On the other hand i think this will give Apple a huge chance of "advertising" to people they would otherwise never reach. And that's good.

 

[Vanilla]

Bengt77:

"But yes, you're right. I hate it too. What they HAVEN'T done, I mean. But that's not to say I don't like what they HAVE done. Come on, this whole new software/service thing they're (only starting to be) doing now is awesome! Way beyond anything Microsoft has done as of late, if you ask me."

I fully agree that what Apple has done here is brilliant. Assuming that ever greater copy protection on CD's is inevitable and that P2P sites will face increasing pressure from the authorities, an elegant, fast, fair (to both artist and user), relatively cheap and above all legal service has to be applauded.

All the more reason why I am so mad that they added this service to the others that everyone who hasnt sworn allegiance to the flag is denied from. Anyway, I'm all diatribed out for now.

When I get my breath back I'll return to emailing Apple, media sites, BB's etc. in an attempt to generate some interest in forcing Apple to realise that people in the rest of the World are sick and tired of being ignored, are fed up waiting for a comment on when we can enjoy the cool stuff they are so proud of and would rather like a full complement of functionality for their money for a change.

ciao for now
Vanilla

 

[dongmin]

newbies, regulars,

this move is all about the bejamins. If there is any side effect of bringing in more switchers, or turning them off, it'll be peanuts compared to what they could make if this music service really caught on in the PC world.

Apple is definitely on the road to diversifying their revenue streams and making itself a media/tech company for a broad base. Look, why would they give people the option of usb2 on the new iPods? It's cuz they want to make an aggressive push for PC users. Macs vs PC issues are secondary. They've sold something like 700,000 iPods--that's close to $300 mil. With usb2 and making an aggressive push for PC users, I'm sure they can easily double the rate.

 

[JJTiger1]

Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
doesnt putting iTunes on a PC defeat some of the main purposes of buying a mac anyway? awesome applications and an un-crashable machine. not only that- but AOL is a gaurenteed kernal panik on any mac i've ever used... and those arent that much fun...

Apparently the AOL installation baffles the user. 😕

I have been a long time AOL user, and I have never had a panic attack caused by AOL. I have had a few unexpected quits, but no panic attacks.

AOL 10.3 and Safari 73 seem more stable with Java 1.4.1 and OS 10.2.5. The user should upgrade.

I'm all for Apple seeding iTunes and iPods on the wintel game boxes. (pun intended).

What Apple needs to do now is to have iGames.
-
JJ

 

[bokdol]

65 cent to record companies. hook into aol get more subscribers. i hit song bought at 1.00 a million times. how many kids out there wants a song for a dollar a not a whole album for 15.00. so from one acc file the record company gets 650,000 dollars from one song if downloaded 1 million copies. not hard since cd sales for hit sone average in the millions. 650,000 but take 100,000 for the artist. and record comapnies are making a killer. and apple does well itself. nice deal.


and to the international comunity. i feel for you but apple has to take a step of caution. before commiting to a service that has a large possibilty to fail. they have to test out as much of the service as possible. but in due time it well.. i am sure apple well address you guys.

 

[Vanilla]

Bokdol:

"and to the international comunity. i feel for you but apple has to take a step of caution. before commiting to a service that has a large possibilty to fail. they have to test out as much of the service as possible. but in due time it well.. i am sure apple well address you guys."

Hi Bokdol. I hear what you are saying but please note, as an example, we in the UK (and I gather the International community as a whole) are STILL waiting to be able to build photo-albums through iPhoto (and I wont even mention Sherlock 3 here)....how long does one have to wait for a "step of caution" to complete?

This is why I find it hard to nod my head sagely when people suggest being patient when I rail against the US Centric iTunes service.

Vanilla

 

[dguisinger]

Originally posted by Vanilla
Bokdol:

"and to the international comunity. i feel for you but apple has to take a step of caution. before commiting to a service that has a large possibilty to fail. they have to test out as much of the service as possible. but in due time it well.. i am sure apple well address you guys."

Hi Bokdol. I hear what you are saying but please note, as an example, we in the UK (and I gather the International community as a whole) are STILL waiting to be able to build photo-albums through iPhoto (and I wont even mention Sherlock 3 here)....how long does one have to wait for a "step of caution" to complete?

This is why I find it hard to nod my head sagely when people suggest being patient when I rail against the US Centric iTunes service.

Vanilla

I hate going through this over and over, but here it goes. Apple relies on partners. Look at Sherlock. The only portion Apple provides is the Apple Care searches......thats it! The US is a LARGE territory.....is there a moviefone replacement or yellow page site that covers all of europe? What you need to realize is, sure, maybe you have equivilent services available to you..........but some parts of europe may not. Apple doesn't build these services, they partner. Do you think they will spend the time to partner, custom build a program, and distribute it for EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY?? So, if you want Sherlock...Go build a service that provides the services Apple needs, for every country in Europe, then ask them to partner with you for a european release. Otherwise too freaking bad, the problem is when moving to independant countries of that size, you are consistantly customizing a FREE APPLICATION for each country. Do you want to bankrupt Apple??? So anyways, morral of my post.......stop your b*tchin, find an alternative, or help provide apple with an economical means of providing solutions.

 

[CrackedButter]

@Vanilla, I agree but i will wait, besides when the international users can get this, most of the bugs will hopefully be ironed out after the beta test... sorry US users are finished with it.

Btw, the UK is the 51st State not the 52nd, the US only has 50 states as it is, the conquest of iraq does not make it number 51.

Joking of course

 

[Stella]

I hate going through this over and over, but here it goes. Apple relies on partners. Look at Sherlock. The only portion Apple provides is the Apple Care searches......thats it! [/QUOTE]

Lame excuse.

Have you seen Watson? That has better international content. If they can do it, then so can Apple.

Apple consistantly f??ks the rest of the world.

With around 50% of their business from outside the US, they can't afford to treat us like that.

Oh, I saw over on macnn - "panther has lots of new user functionality" (words to that effect). No doubt this also means, "US catered for only".

 

[scarletmac]

To the chap who keeps talking about partners I see your point but have a problem or two with some of your hyperbole.

All that about European users being unreasonable in expecting Apple to provide regional services for each country is fankly nonsense. Apple sees fit to sell their products in each of these countries and should therefore be ready to make such partnerships in those areas to provide a full service to their extremely loyal users. As unpopular as this might be, Microsoft have managed to do just this in their international versions of Windows XP, with partner services for digital photo printing etc. so why can't Apple.

Please don't start telling me about free applications because as I am sure you are well aware, the margins for these free services are well covered by the increased cost of Apple hardware (over equivalent PC alternatives) in order to use these apps.

I have to agree with Vanilla that some of us international users do get a tad fed up with being treated like the poor relations by American companies.

 

[dguisinger]

Originally posted by scarletmac
To the chap who keeps talking about partners I see your point but have a problem or two with some of your hyperbole.

All that about European users being unreasonable in expecting Apple to provide regional services for each country is fankly nonsense. Apple sees fit to sell their products in each of these countries and should therefore be ready to make such partnerships in those areas to provide a full service to their extremely loyal users. As unpopular as this might be, Microsoft have managed to do just this in their international versions of Windows XP, with partner services for digital photo printing etc. so why can't Apple.

Please don't start telling me about free applications because as I am sure you are well aware, the margins for these free services are well covered by the increased cost of Apple hardware (over equivalent PC alternatives) in order to use these apps.

I have to agree with Vanilla that some of us international users do get a tad fed up with being treated like the poor relations by American companies.

First of all, we are both assuming that Apple has not made an effort to do so. Maybe it is in the works, they never talk about anything, so you never know.

Second point: If Apple doesn't provide the software with their machines there, they obviously didn't tell you you would receive it. Apple doesn't owe you a thing. They don't owe me a thing. It is Apple's choice what to release, where to release, and when to release, based on Apple's self interest, not yours or mine.

Third Point: I dont know about you, but I have looked into licensing similar services. Many of the mapping services ask $10,000 - $20,000 per year, plus $0.05 or so per map. Thats not so bad, if you deal with that many customers, but if you take x number of customers, divide it up into 30 regions, and each region has to have its own licesning fees paid, then it gets messy. Apple is providing a free service, which means they operate it at a loss. It is their choice at how much of a loss to operate it at. Again, if they never said it was available in the UK, they never promised it to you. It doesn't mean that they can't, but it doesn't mean its a good business decision in their eyes.

Think about it this way, Microsoft has 95% of the market. They have more users to use their services. Paying annual commitments for services like photos and other items is no problem, as they expect to make it back. With Apple, in many smaller countries, the best they could expect is maybe break even. Again, Apple consistantly has 3-5% market share........so when you look at the UK, and the number of localized service partners they need for all of their free services, plus some of their paid services.......the costs become huge. Many of you probably wont understand this until you run an online business and attempt to license content or services.

 

[Doctor Q]

When the announcement was first made, I was surprised that it was called The iTunes Music Store and not The Apple Music Store, since I had expected they'd make a deal with a third party for the Windows client software. With a plan to port iTunes (or iTunes Lite) to Windows, the name of the service makes more sense.

After the Windows port, how 'bout iTunes for Linux or iTunes for Tivo?

 

[dguisinger]

Did anyone else type the wrong password in, and get the iForgot button flashing in your face? I almost broke up laughing, Apple does have a sense of humor.

 

[xDANx]

Windows users have to wait until June???

i'm not sure if anyone noticed this...but if you look at the bottom of the ipod page at the apple store there's some interesting information about USB 2.0. i've attached a screen shot taken from the canadian apple store. it looks like windows users, at least those who haven't installed a firewire card, won't get to use their ipods until june when apple makes available some sort of necessary USB 2.0 download. i though it was interesting, maybe someone else will too.

 

[switchedback]

Thank God!

As a "switcher" who recently switched back (to PC), one of the few things I miss about the Mac is iTunes. It sounds as though I picked just the right time to move back to the Windows world.

 

[JJTiger1]

SwitchBack

Originally posted by switchedback
Thank God!

As a "switcher" who recently switched back (to PC), one of the few things I miss about the Mac is iTunes. It sounds as though I picked just the right time to move back to the Windows world.

Thank you. May I have your Mac now?😀
-
JJ

 

[switchedback]

To JJTiger1:

It's a 15" PowerBook. Look for it on eBay in the next few weeks.