iTunes MiniStore Now Issues Warning

[shamino]

I'm in both groups. I'm not really demanding privacy, as much as wanting to know what privacy I have and having control over it...

And if I show proof that I bought a song and it didn't download properly, I'd want to get it replaced...

I was referring to the more extreme opinions.

I've seen people say that Apple has no right to retain any information whatsoever about your music listening habits - not even the list of stuff you bought from iTMS.

And I've also seen people say that they you should always be able to pull up a list of what you've purchased and be able to re-download any or all of the songs at any time. (I happen to be in this camp.)

Clearly, someone in both camps is either completely clueless or enjoys complaining for the sake of complaining.

 

[Goliath]

Does anybody know if the mini store just collects the artist/album/song id3 info or all of the info held in the id3 tag??

 

[Doctor Q]

Does anybody know if the mini store just collects the artist/album/song id3 info or all of the info held in the id3 tag??

"Collect" may be the wrong word for it, since it doesn't retain the information, but your question is about what information it uses.

I haven't read up on the details, but it seems logical that it would need only enough information to identify the song so it could look it up in a database.

If you change all your song information, I wonder if it would recommend the wrong other music. Has anybody tried this?

 

[shamino]

If you change all your song information, I wonder if it would recommend the wrong other music. Has anybody tried this?

Just did. Changed the "Artist" field of a track from "Bill Cosby" to "Nirvana". The mini-store showed a selection of Nirvana albums when selecting the track.

It's clearly just looking at the index data in the database (title, artist, album, etc.) and not at the file's content.

 

[Doctor Q]

From an editorial in today's Los Angeles Times:

Apple Computer did something unusual this week: It acknowledged a mistake and changed course. That's not quite as big a deal as the pope admitting Galileo was right about the whole Earth-orbiting-the-sun thing, but it's close.

...

Apple shrugged off the complaints at first, saying users could turn off the MiniStore if they didn't like it. Besides, Apple said, it didn't store any of the information it received. Late Tuesday, however, the company quietly changed the feature to give users more information and control over whether to activate it. For a company with a public attitude that often borders on the self-righteous, it was a surprising turnabout.

...

Give credit to Apple for responding as quickly as it did and for changing the MiniStore's default state from "on" to "off." Temporarily gathering information on users' tastes in entertainment isn't nearly as objectionable as, say, secretly installing software on their computers that hackers could exploit, as Sony BMG notoriously did with its copy-protected CDs last year. But even die-hard Mac users care about their privacy, and they should be the ones deciding whether to part with any of it.

 

[EricNau]

Those who aren't doing anything wrong, don't have anything to worry about.

So anybody that complains about it, I can only assume...

 

[sunfast]

Question

So if the Mini Store is turned off (as mine is), does that mean info about my currently playing track is not being sent to Apple? It doesn't run in the background or whatever?

 

[-hh]

I notice that you are asked "Would you like to turn on the MiniStore now?" but given only one button to click, namely the "Turn on MiniStore" button.

Yes, I noticed that too - - -

I'm sure most people will figure out to click the open/close button (following the arrow) if their answer is "No",

I wouldn't take that bet.

but if I had designed this panel I would have had two buttons, such as "Turn on MiniStore" or "Leave MiniStore Off".

Same here: the failure to clearly provide the choices violates *ALL* basic principles for a design interface.

As such, while Apple has technically met a "letter of the law" of offering the consumer a choice, they have clearly violated the spirt of what the basic concept of "choice" means. Interfaces like this are a Windows-esque "railroading" of the consumer to try to fool them into doing what the Company wants.

Such underhanded behavior is unethical IMNSO. Yes, I know these are strong words, but there is absolutely no other excuse for such a blatantly misleading interface...this was no accident.

I feel sorry for the software writer who knew what he was doing was wrong, but had to do what he was told to do by his Apple manager.



-hh

 

[EricNau]

I notice that you are asked "Would you like to turn on the MiniStore now?" but given only one button to click, namely the "Turn on MiniStore" button.

I'm sure most people will figure out to click the open/close button (following the arrow) if their answer is "No", but if I had designed this panel I would have had two buttons, such as "Turn on MiniStore" or "Leave MiniStore Off".

I'm not sure what the problem is. It does have two buttons; one says "Turn on MiniStore" and the other says "Turn MiniStore off by clicking here."

 

[misterman8]

Those who aren't doing anything wrong, don't have anything to worry about.

So anybody that complains about it, I can only assume...

That's a pretty narrowly construed interpretation of the issue at hand. Yes some don't want to reveal their less than legal actions. But others may just be concerned with their general privacy. Which, as consumers, we are all going to face in a more dramatic way in the coming year considering the implications of certain technological developments (e.g. RFID Passive tags).

It's not necessarily exclusively about Apple having the information either; it's also about the ease at which the government can access it. In many ways it's akin to allowing the government to know what is on my bookshelf, be it music, or literature. And although there aren't a tremendous amount of controversial books on "tape" available at iTunes, as the library grows the integrity of my choices of materials does matter. It's hard to say how invasive the legal system will allow future governmental departments or even employers to be; so as a precaution it is a good idea to demand your right to privacy now.

 

[aussie_in_uk]

Who Cares !!!!!

I really don't see what the problem is. The mini-store has already helped me find some new music for my Itunes collection.
Very handy tool.
The more Apple knew about my musical tastes, the more they will be able to serve up more great stuff for my musical entertainment.
Remember - I think, therefore I am - if you think the sky is falling the and world is trying to get you - it probably will.

 

[BlueRevolution]

I think it's an eyesore marring iTunes' clean lines, and it should certainly be off by default. privacy issue, not really. certainly no more than the trust we put in Google not to log every search term we make. (I actually think they do, catagorically... how else would they know "sex" is one of the most searched words? )

side note, wouldn't following Aqua specs put the mini store in a drawer? then again, when has Apple ever paid any attention to them. hell, they wrote the book...

and, misterman8, you hit the nail on the head. I don't feel comfortable about anyone knowing more about me than they have any business to. and that goes for everything from my bank to the credit card applications I get even at 18 to my employer. sure they need to know something (except for the credit card companies), but I won't give them any more than I have to. if a company asks me to fill out a form online and asks for information I don't think they have a right to know, I fill it as follows:

First name: ****
Last name: off
Address: 12345 67 Ave

and so on it goes. they have no business even knowing my name and I'm not going to give it to them. I still don't care if Apple knows the names of some of the artists I enjoy. that's not a breach of my carefully guarded privacy as far as I'm concerned.

 

[-hh]

I'm not sure what the problem is. It does have two buttons; one says "Turn on MiniStore" and the other says "Turn MiniStore off by clicking here."

YMMV, but we have a different definition of "buttons".

The dialog in question has one button within it ("YES"), and an arrow that points out of its window. AFAIC, that's one button to click, not two.

Yes, technically speaking, the arrow points to another button, but that's not a "NO" button - - its actually a window dialog display toggle.

Since I'm not presently willing to try this, someone else can try hitting the "yes" button and then reporting back what the "I changed my mind, turn it off" button looks like. Do note that merely *hiding the dialog* is not the same as actually turning it off.


-hh

 

[howesey]

Heh. If you'd read the discussion over at Slashdot, you'd think iTunes was sending your hard drive's entire contents to Apple for analysis. Talk about paranoid hyperventilating! The title of the article there is even heavily accusatory: iTunes is Malware? Boy did that set off the tin foil hat freaks...

Apple should have put in this message from the start, but honestly. Who cares if song info from a portion of your music collection is sent? What's the worst somebody could do with it? Make fun of your musical tastes? Ooooh. The Slashdot posters made it out to sound like it would destroy your life and half your family too. Kind of amusing.

Let me guess, and most of these people are using Windows?

If you are not happy with the ministore, then you should have not accepted the licence agreement.

Put a packet sniffer on t machine and have a look at what is sent to Microsoft, it's scary! I never realised that Word would send Microsoft e-mail addresses if you type them in. Startup IE, and it will send Microsoft a copy of all the programs you have installed. Why do they need this data? They do not say what is sent in their privacy policy, but the licence for Windows says that all the data that you have on any computer that has Windows installed is property of Microsoft. Even Office says in the licence that all things created in their apps the copyright belongs to Microsoft.

 

[cb911]

spyware?

i was surprised to see the MiniStore cluttering my iTunes window, but the recommendations are good.

some people just trump everything up.

 

[Some_Big_Spoon]

It's not so much that it "scanned" (which I guess it doesn't), it's just that it's tacky. It's such an over the top, in your face, used-car salesman thing to have. My gut tells me they'll nix it in a later build since there's been all this fuss, but if they don't, they should.

 

[EricNau]

It's not so much that it "scanned" (which I guess it doesn't), it's just that it's tacky. It's such an over the top, in your face, used-car salesman thing to have. My gut tells me they'll nix it in a later build since there's been all this fuss, but if they don't, they should.

Why should they get rid of it? If you don't like it, then turn it off. It's not hurting you by just being there.
I'm sure there are many who actually like it (I do).

 

[beatle888]

honestly who cares.... so they see what music i listen too..... its not that bad... (my music collection)
It doesn't matter any way they see what music i buy from itms anyway...

give an inch and you'll lose a mile.

 

[moooosedude]

i give it till the next build. then its either gone, or atleast set to off when the software is installed. people who like it can just go in and turn it back on. most people will just go on happily living without it

 

[Truffy]

I notice that you are asked "Would you like to turn on the MiniStore now?" but given only one button to click, namely the "Turn on MiniStore" button.

I'm sure most people will figure out to click the open/close button (following the arrow) if their answer is "No", but if I had designed this panel I would have had two buttons, such as "Turn on MiniStore" or "Leave MiniStore Off".

I would like a third button ... "Remove this functionality from the Interface". Or it could be in the prefs. Problem is, IMO, some of the iTunes buttons are not too obvious as to what they mean. Yes you get the tooltip, eventually, but there is the chance of accidentally or ignorantly, activating the inistore, and I would rather it wasn't there at all.

 

[Johnny Rico]

See http://www.pandora.com/ for a neat interface that introduces new music based on your input.

 

[Counterfit]

Heh. If you'd read the discussion over at Slashdot, you'd think iTunes was sending your hard drive's entire contents to Apple for analysis. Talk about paranoid hyperventilating! The title of the article there is even heavily accusatory: iTunes is Malware? Boy did that set off the tin foil hat freaks...

Apple should have put in this message from the start, but honestly. Who cares if song info from a portion of your music collection is sent? What's the worst somebody could do with it? Make fun of your musical tastes? Ooooh. The Slashdot posters made it out to sound like it would destroy your life and half your family too. Kind of amusing.

They do that with everything on /. though, which is why I don't read anything on there anymore. Too much **** to wade through to get to the one decent post.

Such underhanded behavior is unethical IMNSO. Yes, I know these are strong words, but there is absolutely no other excuse for such a blatantly misleading interface...this was no accident.

I disagree. This was probably more of an oversight rather than a "let's get them to spend more money!!!1" thing.

 

[k3nx]

What if...

Personally I think this would be great if is DID scan my library and told me of things I wasn't paying any attention to. For instance it could notice that I listen to a particular band more often than not and that a majority of the songs from said band are rather high - obviously I like that music then they could say - "well here's an album from that band that you *don't* have" or even do the Amazon "recommended thingy", Bob Jones likes that band and he lines these guys too (it would be great if it was the same genre).

Make this an optional iTunes plugin and then those that want something like this can have it and the paranoid will know it's not even on there machine.

I'd even pay a few bucks for something like that.

 

[shamino]

Personally I think this would be great if is DID scan my library and told me of things I wasn't paying any attention to. For instance it could notice that I listen to a particular band more often than not and that a majority of the songs from said band are rather high - obviously I like that music then they could say - "well here's an album from that band that you *don't* have" or even do the Amazon "recommended thingy", Bob Jones likes that band and he lines these guys too (it would be great if it was the same genre).

Make this an optional iTunes plugin and then those that want something like this can have it and the paranoid will know it's not even on there machine.

Shouldn't be too hard to write a script to do this.

In the "iTunes Music Library.xml" file (which is XML, and therefore not hard to parse), all the fields are readily accessible.

It shouldn't be too hard to find artists where the play count (or the rating) is higher than average, but the play-date (most recent play timestamp) for all songs is more than, say, 60 days in the past. Once you have a list of matching artists, constructing an appropriate search URL shouldn't be that bad.

Building a list of recommended purchases is the hard part. Not in getting the list of albums, but in figuring out how to filter it. For instance, if Amazon lists the same album multiple times and you own one of them releases, do you want to see all the others or not? On the one hand, I might want to know about a new pressing that has bonus tracks. On the other hand, I really don't care if the exact same album has been released in 20 countries with different catalog numbers.

Ditto for near-matches. If I have a lot of Beatles songs, do I want to see albums by other bands containing Beatles covers? And is it even possible to do this without getting false-positives from unrelated songs with the same name. (like "Hell Yeah" by American Gentry vs. the same-titled song by Ginuwine)