Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iTunes Movie Rentals to be Announced at WWDC?
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
The more I think about this, the more I like it. Apple has a lot of potential here. If they offered a rent and rent to own service, that would be optimal.
Doctor Q said:
Seems to me the difference between this rumored Apple service and Movielink or Vongo or Moviebeam, et al, is analogous to the difference between the iTMS and Yahoo! Music, Sony Connect, Napster 2.0...
Apple just has a knack for getting it right, and it's by allowing the user the most control. I just don't see the service staying a rental-only venture for very long.
How many of you who buy DVDs watch them more then once? More then twice? More than 20 times? Ok I've bought videos for my kids whaen they were in preschool nd they watched the same video 20 times in a row over a two week priod. So I'll aks "how many adults would want to watch the same DVD multiple times?" I figure almost no one would. So why buy a video. Renting seems the best. So now what you do is find a rental outfit that has the best terms
Apple will have the problem of balancing video quality with download times. I think a DVD quality feature film can be compressed down to 1GB. That's hours of time for most people so I doubt they will ofer that quality. So who wants to watch a poor quality movie? Someone I'm sure won't care and all Apple needs is 0.1% of the market to sell millions
Apple will have the problem of balancing video quality with download times. I think a DVD quality feature film can be compressed down to 1GB. That's hours of time for most people so I doubt they will ofer that quality. So who wants to watch a poor quality movie? Someone I'm sure won't care and all Apple needs is 0.1% of the market to sell millions
there r plenty movies i watch more than once i would rather buy a movie though from itunes rather than rent as i have netflix already and it would be a better fit i think steve went to rental if its true cause of the price diffrence he wants 9.99 for a movie the studios want atleast 19.99 so thats why i think this would be true even if they both comprimise and be 12-14 and maybe through some exclusive content bonus featurs i would still buy movies for itunes espiecaily once i get my ipod video
I've watched every movie I own at least 15x, and most of them many more than that. I for one won't rent from itunes, I'd rather not is all. If they make money off of it, more power to them
You can rent HD-DVD and Bluray from Netflix
First, couple of corrections. Netflix is already offering both HD-DVD and Bluray Disk rentals of available movies. So, technically high definition movie is for rent. I have not rented any yet because I am waiting for the prices to come down a little bit and also a victor to emerge.
Second, while it might be true that the majority of people in the general population might still be watching movies on a 4x3 non-progressive scan TV with mono/stereo sound, the distribution is quite different in the specific population that might be interested in trendy things like online downloads of movies.
In the middle to upper-middle class segment of tech-savvy market, the presence of 16x9 HD-capable displays and 5.1 surround systems are almost ubiquitous. I have several friends that all have such systems and they are also in the similar tech/economic bracket as me.
Also, it is not that expensive to own a 5.1 surround system anymore. Even though I have a system that cost several thousand dollars, you can pickup a decent Onkyo 5.1 system for $400 from the bigbox retailers. Walmart has even $99 low end systems.
About your claim that movies down take advantage of surround sound, you cannot be more wrong. Are you still watching VHS? Almost all DVDs using Dolby Digital 5.1 encoding and some better ones use DTS (which I love). These make a huge difference. Again, looking at the tech savvy customers that are early adopters, you have to think about movies like iRobot, Star Wars, War of the Worlds, Batman Begins, Spider Man 1 and 2, Bourne Supremacy, etc. These DVDs have impressive sound that cannot be expressed in stereo.
I agree that Apple's download service does not need to be HD, but it has to offer surround sound and original theatrical aspect ratio. You can probably accomplish this feat with a file size of approximately 1.5 to 2 GB per movie using H.264 encoding.
theBB said:
First, couple of corrections. Netflix is already offering both HD-DVD and Bluray Disk rentals of available movies. So, technically high definition movie is for rent. I have not rented any yet because I am waiting for the prices to come down a little bit and also a victor to emerge.
Second, while it might be true that the majority of people in the general population might still be watching movies on a 4x3 non-progressive scan TV with mono/stereo sound, the distribution is quite different in the specific population that might be interested in trendy things like online downloads of movies.
In the middle to upper-middle class segment of tech-savvy market, the presence of 16x9 HD-capable displays and 5.1 surround systems are almost ubiquitous. I have several friends that all have such systems and they are also in the similar tech/economic bracket as me.
Also, it is not that expensive to own a 5.1 surround system anymore. Even though I have a system that cost several thousand dollars, you can pickup a decent Onkyo 5.1 system for $400 from the bigbox retailers. Walmart has even $99 low end systems.
About your claim that movies down take advantage of surround sound, you cannot be more wrong. Are you still watching VHS? Almost all DVDs using Dolby Digital 5.1 encoding and some better ones use DTS (which I love). These make a huge difference. Again, looking at the tech savvy customers that are early adopters, you have to think about movies like iRobot, Star Wars, War of the Worlds, Batman Begins, Spider Man 1 and 2, Bourne Supremacy, etc. These DVDs have impressive sound that cannot be expressed in stereo.
I agree that Apple's download service does not need to be HD, but it has to offer surround sound and original theatrical aspect ratio. You can probably accomplish this feat with a file size of approximately 1.5 to 2 GB per movie using H.264 encoding.
bommai said:
I rented an HD-DVD from netflix (Van Helsing) and it wouldn't play on my Mac. I thought that the current version of DVD player would let you play these discs but all I could find through Apple tech support is that DVD player will let you play DVD Studio Pro burnt HD discs.
Or am I doing something wrong?
Stella said:Apple are allowed to change their minds about the purpose of iPod / iTunes ( just like a woman , as we keep on being reminded! )
When you rent a movie from Rogers, blockbusters etc, you watch the movie to their schedule...
Which is exactly why I don't rent movies from Blockbuster, etc...
I know they are encoded with these formats, but very few DVDs actually take advantage of "directional" abilities of them. Yes, 5 speaker systems make you feel a bit more immersed in sound compared to just 2 small speakers on your TV. However, very few movies I watch gives me the feeling that something coming from behind just whizzed by me on the left side or some animal just roared or chirped on the right. Among these very few might be Bourne Supremacy or Star Wars, but liked I've said, a lot of movies just don't even bother working on that angle.bommai said:
The studios: greedy + dumb = no money
Apple wants to sell movies for $9.99, the studios say no, because they are greedy. Let's rent them for (I'll guess) $1.99 per view! Or (I'll guess) unlimited movies for $19.99 per month! That way, we get big bucks!
Foolish foolish, foolish. The movies will have DRM on them. The DRM will be cracked, because ALL DRMs are cracked. So the studios end up with, instead of $10, a measly $2, because people will rent them for one view, crack the DRM, and now own the movie permanently.
The viewer gets the movie permanently anyway, instead of getting $10, they get $2 because they are greedy, and dumb.
Or worse, a use pays $20 for a month, downloads every ding dang movie in the store, and gets them all. Even worse, the cracked movies will be put all over the Net by frustrated viewers.
Let Apple do it RIGHT! People will pay $10, get the movie and be legal and nice, happy viewers don't crack DRM, don't put cracked films all over the Net, and the studios make out big. Just like with music. But nooooo, greed loses every time.
By the way I predict movies will be 16:10 (sic) widescreen and not HD, stream in like Front Row trailers, streamable in iTunes AND in Front Row, the streams will be downloadable as you watch so they will be loadable and viewable on current and new widescreen video iPods, and will be compressed to about 1GB/100 minutes.
Apple wants to sell movies for $9.99, the studios say no, because they are greedy. Let's rent them for (I'll guess) $1.99 per view! Or (I'll guess) unlimited movies for $19.99 per month! That way, we get big bucks!
Foolish foolish, foolish. The movies will have DRM on them. The DRM will be cracked, because ALL DRMs are cracked. So the studios end up with, instead of $10, a measly $2, because people will rent them for one view, crack the DRM, and now own the movie permanently.
The viewer gets the movie permanently anyway, instead of getting $10, they get $2 because they are greedy, and dumb.
Or worse, a use pays $20 for a month, downloads every ding dang movie in the store, and gets them all. Even worse, the cracked movies will be put all over the Net by frustrated viewers.
Let Apple do it RIGHT! People will pay $10, get the movie and be legal and nice, happy viewers don't crack DRM, don't put cracked films all over the Net, and the studios make out big. Just like with music. But nooooo, greed loses every time.
By the way I predict movies will be 16:10 (sic) widescreen and not HD, stream in like Front Row trailers, streamable in iTunes AND in Front Row, the streams will be downloadable as you watch so they will be loadable and viewable on current and new widescreen video iPods, and will be compressed to about 1GB/100 minutes.
HD resolution is not same as HD-DVD or Bluray Disc
I think you are confusing the term HD in various context.
A movie file (computer file) can be in HD resolution (1280x720 or 1920x1080) encoded in a variety of formats (MPEG2, MPEG4-H.264 aka AVC, Microsoft VC-1).
If the non-DRM'd file is available on your computer, you can view them using a variety of playback software such as Quicktime, Windows Media Player, VLC player, etc.
However, you rented HD-DVD. This is a physical media that requires a blu-laser based HD-DVD player to play it on. Currently only Toshiba sells such a player as a standalone player HD-A1 I believe. They also have a high-end laptop with this player built-in. So, you need a HD-DVD readable drive to playback the HD-DVD disc you rented from Netflix.
What Apple is talking about is authoring HD disks. You can make HD movies using Final Cut Pro or even iMovie by importing a HD movie (probably in HDV format). Then create a DVD image of it that is capable of HD. I have not used this feature - so I don't know the details.
I would have preferred a way to burn H.264 based HD movies into a standard DVD (red laser based single or dual layer DVD) and play it back on a low cost player that can do H.264 decoding (including HD resolution). I guess a Mac Mini is one such beast ;-)
mambodancer said:
I think you are confusing the term HD in various context.
A movie file (computer file) can be in HD resolution (1280x720 or 1920x1080) encoded in a variety of formats (MPEG2, MPEG4-H.264 aka AVC, Microsoft VC-1).
If the non-DRM'd file is available on your computer, you can view them using a variety of playback software such as Quicktime, Windows Media Player, VLC player, etc.
However, you rented HD-DVD. This is a physical media that requires a blu-laser based HD-DVD player to play it on. Currently only Toshiba sells such a player as a standalone player HD-A1 I believe. They also have a high-end laptop with this player built-in. So, you need a HD-DVD readable drive to playback the HD-DVD disc you rented from Netflix.
What Apple is talking about is authoring HD disks. You can make HD movies using Final Cut Pro or even iMovie by importing a HD movie (probably in HDV format). Then create a DVD image of it that is capable of HD. I have not used this feature - so I don't know the details.
I would have preferred a way to burn H.264 based HD movies into a standard DVD (red laser based single or dual layer DVD) and play it back on a low cost player that can do H.264 decoding (including HD resolution). I guess a Mac Mini is one such beast ;-)
Why do some people think Steve Jobs doesn't want a movie rental model? Traditionally, music is sold, not rented. Traditionally, movies are rented, not sold. I see jobs pushing this for iTunes. I'm guessing Apple will offer both rental and sales of movies, just like Blockbuster does, but they'll push the rental model, because:
- People don't watch movies over and over like they do songs
- Movies take up a lot of disk space
- People don't want to spend money buying back up drives
- People don't want to spend time burning DVDs
- Renting is cheaper than buying
- People don't watch movies over and over like they do songs
- Movies take up a lot of disk space
- People don't want to spend money buying back up drives
- People don't want to spend time burning DVDs
- Renting is cheaper than buying
solvs said:
i wouldnt even pay a $1.99 if the resolution is the same as the current video content on iTunes... HORRID!
I'm definitely with you there. I want to both rent and purchase movies, but if they're going to be 320x240 then forget it. I'm not paying my hard-earned cash for that.Electro Funk said:
DVD quality and at least 5.1 surround is what I would require before I rented any movies from Apple.
Will not happen. First, any internet connected person with 3 ounces of will can get a bootlegged copy of movies still in the theatres never mind later. Second, the early release of a movie by Apple would set off a tizzy from goliaths like bn.com, amazon.com, Walmart, NetFlicks and others. Third, if the extrapolations are correct and the videos are several GB then people with not so new computers (small HD) and/or slow connections will be left out. You've got to think of the masses not just the MacRumors regulars. It just doesn't fly.
Oh, and I agree with those who say WWDC will not be or should not be the place for announcing this. Again, think of the masses. This would be holiday season material. Plan on upgrades in the third quarter.
Ah, I must not be people then and kids must not be either. How many times have you seen [pick your favorite movie] on DVD?bketchum said:
Actually, that is not true UNLESS you are one of the people you mentioned above and then it would still depend on where or how you are getting rentals. Then you would have to state whether you mean per viewing or per title.
The rest I agree with.
bommai said:
That's what I figured. I knew it was too much to hope that I could play HD-DVD's in my iMac without buying a stand alone player. Oh, well. Thanks for the reply.
Front page on Netscape
An article regarding this is now front page on Netscape's home page.
http://www.netscape.com/
An article regarding this is now front page on Netscape's home page.
http://www.netscape.com/
celebrian23 said:
I think rental is probably a bigger market, but there are plenty of people like you that want to keep the movie forever. I would like to see Apple come up with a dual model that allows you to rent a movie for 48 hours that will play on all platforms or buy the movie outright.
The PPV model for $4 a pop seems to make more sense for iTunes than the Netflix model of so many movies at a time.
celebrian23 said:
Likewise. Ideally I'd like a movie purchase option, and/or a flat rate subscription service. I'd have absolutely no interest in the rental system as reported. I guess it just proves it's different strokes for different folks.
Hence I think, unlike the music service, the video delivery system will probably have to offer several options. The music service had to be nice and simple, out of necessity, as existing services were too complex and not taking off. Now that people have become accustomed to iTMS, I think there's plenty scope for Apple to offer more than one delivery type.
Rental is a joke. I want to watch the movie again and again... geewhiz, this is bound to fail eventually.
Uh, I don't see how anyone can really use Netflix seriously.
With Netflix, you can't just say, "Let's watch a movie tonight." You have to plan ahead your movie schedule. Netflix will die once iTMS comes alone. It's all about instant instant instant.
I've used Movielink twice so far (Windows only), so I have some "experience" with online movie rentals. Let me tell you, it works well. And if Movielink works well for me, I'm sure iTMS will make it 10x better.
I'm pretty psyched about iTMS rentals. If Apple does it, I'll be using it all the time. It will once and for all remove the problem with Blockbuster/Netflix/etc where often the movie you want isn't available (i.e. new releases).
Also, Movielink allows you to watch the movie after only a few minutes of it loading (just like streaming), so you don't have to wait for the entire thing to download. It works pretty nice (besides the fact that you have to use it on Windows).
With Netflix, you can't just say, "Let's watch a movie tonight." You have to plan ahead your movie schedule. Netflix will die once iTMS comes alone. It's all about instant instant instant.
I've used Movielink twice so far (Windows only), so I have some "experience" with online movie rentals. Let me tell you, it works well. And if Movielink works well for me, I'm sure iTMS will make it 10x better.
I'm pretty psyched about iTMS rentals. If Apple does it, I'll be using it all the time. It will once and for all remove the problem with Blockbuster/Netflix/etc where often the movie you want isn't available (i.e. new releases).
Also, Movielink allows you to watch the movie after only a few minutes of it loading (just like streaming), so you don't have to wait for the entire thing to download. It works pretty nice (besides the fact that you have to use it on Windows).
Slashdot posted an article today that announces the studios have struck a deal with an outfit called CinemaNow (never heard of them) in which the studios have finally agreed to allow users to burn a downloaded movie to a blank DVD. Here's what it says about Apple:
But the article doesn't mention the 800lbs gorilla in the sidelines, namely, connection/download time. Almost every article about the studio's entry into the movie download business flatly ignores this issue, but, imo, it's a real world showstopper (pun intended). Hanging around waiting endlessly while literally gigs of data trickle down your internet pipe isn't going to be anyone's cup of tea.
Instead of jumping the gun, someone needs to think a little harder about all of this in order to make it work in such as way that it's irresistible to the average consumer/movie buff, like iTunes is for music fans now. Hopefully, that someone is Apple.
But the article doesn't mention the 800lbs gorilla in the sidelines, namely, connection/download time. Almost every article about the studio's entry into the movie download business flatly ignores this issue, but, imo, it's a real world showstopper (pun intended). Hanging around waiting endlessly while literally gigs of data trickle down your internet pipe isn't going to be anyone's cup of tea.
Instead of jumping the gun, someone needs to think a little harder about all of this in order to make it work in such as way that it's irresistible to the average consumer/movie buff, like iTunes is for music fans now. Hopefully, that someone is Apple.