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iTV To Go 'Beyond Streaming'?
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Ok, I dont know what a slingbox is and I thought it was going to stream or operate like a TiVo, where it downloads while you are asleep, so it would need a harddrive.
Also, Im not sure what you mean by TV? Do you mean a CRT with an aspect of 4:3? And, I would assume you dont mean a flat panel LCD or Plasma, which now outsells tube tvs? A small HD plasma is 42 and cost about $1000. I just got a Panny 9UK HD Plasma and it works quite will with a mac mini.
And when you download from the iTunes store this does go to a harddrive? So you think Im going to buy both a new computer and the iTV, and pay $20 to download a few movies?
I already know Im an idiot, thanks, but this still doesnt make sense to me.
My point about price fixing was a wild hope that Apple might step in with iDish and offer a service without all the commercials, but I also said that I think this will be a HD movie download service, and web serfer, video server... like a mac mini, TiVo with streaming abilities from iTV.
The bandwidth limitation will be an issue if iTV wants to go past a download service.
TiVo doesn't download your shows over the internet, it records them off the cable TV or satellite receiver. The only reason it requires an internet connection is to get programming schedules and verify you're paying your monthly fee.
Why not? They are all TV's. There is nothing about the term television that confines it to analog tube sets. If your Plasma/LCD has an over the air tuner or any sort, it is a TV. If it doesn't, it's a monitor.
Do you have a source for that statement?
Apple thinks you are.
Nobody is going to offer TV without commercials. People seriously underestimate the cost of production and distribution of content.
Remember that songs/movies you buy from Apple are supposed to be yours, if they go to a streaming media service they become like a rental service in effect, as you have to maintain your relationship with Apple to keep viewing the content.
For $299 I will guess you would get a dvd, and a download streaming device for iTV. But if you need a mac mini then you would have two dvd players. I hope there is an upgrade for some computer functions such as websurfing and word processing.
Comcast has video on demand and there is no additional hardware. This services is supposed to expand.
I dont see a surround sound audio amp for $299. Perhaps a dock for your iPod, or the iPod is the harddrive.
Im really curious where this iTV might be going?
Comcast has video on demand and there is no additional hardware. This services is supposed to expand.
I dont see a surround sound audio amp for $299. Perhaps a dock for your iPod, or the iPod is the harddrive.
Im really curious where this iTV might be going?
Your the one who said a TV wouldnt even work as a monitor.
You consistently rearrange some of my post where Im just speculating. And at the same time you avoid my main points.
I also realize by streaming a movie we would just be renting it, but as a BluRay cost $1000, and if iTV is significantly less to watch the same movie in HD, this would be a reasonable solution. You also said you were waiting for the battle to be settled and thats consistent to what I was pointing out that HD iTV would have a niche.
Thanks for responding to some of my points, but Im really curious where this is going.
I think I'm just going to wait and see.
anything is possible minus 1 thing: the option to dock and iPod simply is so out of place that I do not know why it keeps getting brought up. iTV is focused on streaming content from your computer, not your iPod.
As several of us have discussed before, my hope is that iTV will be able to stream all forms of content on my computer, but with particular emphasis on digital media. So if I want to bring a word doc up and type or a movie I am working on in final cut pro, I can do so. Similarly, and with more fully developed components all my digital media can be run on my tv. The goal is to make this experience integrate all the entertainment features we love, but throughout our homes. Quality preservation is essential and I think they will work to ensure that takes place.
As several of us have discussed before, my hope is that iTV will be able to stream all forms of content on my computer, but with particular emphasis on digital media. So if I want to bring a word doc up and type or a movie I am working on in final cut pro, I can do so. Similarly, and with more fully developed components all my digital media can be run on my tv. The goal is to make this experience integrate all the entertainment features we love, but throughout our homes. Quality preservation is essential and I think they will work to ensure that takes place.
Uh, I said no such thing. Feel free to quote the sentence where I said that.
Back on post 127 of this thread you said:
"Ok, I dont know what a slingbox is and I thought it was going to stream or operate like a TiVo, where it downloads while you are asleep, so it would need a harddrive."
The point is it is going to stream, but not over the internet, it's going to stream from your Macs on your home network (Airport or otherwise), and TiVo doesn't download anything while you sleep, except an interactive TV guide.
Here's the homepage of Slingbox's makers. A Slingbox is made to transmit a signal from a digital cable or satellite receiver over the internet, and allow a person to control the receiver. This would allow you to watch your service anywhere conceivably.
then you said:
"Also, Im not sure what you mean by TV? Do you mean a CRT with an aspect of 4:3? And, I would assume you dont mean a flat panel LCD or Plasma, which now outsells tube tvs? A small HD plasma is 42 and cost about $1000. I just got a Panny 9UK HD Plasma and it works quite will with a mac mini."
Why would you assume I don't mean a Plasma or LCD? They are types of TV's as well. I don't have n HDTV but if I did I would probably get a tube-based HDTV because of the lower cost and better picture (less image ghosting, better color). Plus you stated Plasma and LCD TV's outsell tube-based, which I don't believe. Sounds like a line the TV salesmen gave you.
I don't rearrange anything. I separate your posts into separate thoughts. I did split ONE sentence on the last reply. Each portion of your replies appear in the same order they did in your original post. Yes, I have cut material out, but the purpose of quoting a previous post isn't to repeat it in it's entirety.
Except Apple doesn't offer movies in HD. HD is still a niche itself until there is wider adoption of HD sets. It's a chicken and the egg problem. There's no rush to buy an HD set untill there is lots of exclusive programming for HDTV owners. But there will be little if any programming available in HD that is not available in SD as well untill more people buy HD sets, because advertisers want their message getting in front of as many eyes as possible. There's a reason cablecos only offer a dozen or so stations of HD out of the 250+ channels they offer.
The price of HD-DVD and BluRay players both will fall soon. Just as the price of HDTV's is going to fall through the floor in the U.S. after analog broadcasting gets pulled in 2009. Digital TV (and by extension, HD) will no longer be a luxury service for the wealthy.
You could also buy a PS3, a BluRay player for as low as $600.
So a MacMini wont download and play a HD movie or display a word doc, and you need the iTV to accomplish this basic task?
Sorry, Im still on a G3, but I still dont get it. A 42 LCD/Plasma is just a monitor so it would display a word document, and I assumed the new Macs would play a movie also.
Also, most people dont need final cut pro or photo shop. So, thats why I was thinking this could be a basic computer. If not you will need the mac mini to go with it, and why not simply include the iTV with the Mac Mini so you dont have two devises in a limited shelf space.
I dont care if an iPod dock in included or not, but the iTV will be connected to a home theater system, so it would be convenient addition.
Is the problem the iTV will address processing the images or scaling them?
Also I thought preserving digital media was the process of saving it to disk? I havent done a lot of this but assumed it was matter of disk space.
Here is your quote SeaFox.
You are an condescending individual and take my post out of context.
I think an iPod dock is a great idea. It would be nice to be able to use your iTV for something without a computer running. Hey, take your iPod to a friend's house and you can all watch a movie at their house from your collection, just like taking your entire video library with you.
There are two problems with this:
1) HD content takes up a huge amount of space. So if Apple did offer HD movies, the copy iTunes will transfer to your iPod would be reduced quality.
2) iTunes purchases would not be playable on the component outputs on the iTV. The movie studios would require you use an HDMI connection or something else that supported HDCP to ensure you didn't copy the movie out of the iTunes ecosphere.
The issue here is you're asking your iTV to open other files, in other words, you're asking it to be a regular computer. That isn't going to work because it makes the OS/interface more complicated. A home entertainment component needs to be simple and fast. This is where Apple's embedded OSX rumors would be coming in. Everyone read that and thought about the Apple Phone because that was the hot topic of the week and the was the notion of a PDA Apple phone. But an embedded real-time operating system is just what the iTV needs.
People need to stop comparing the iTV to a Mac Mini, they should thinking of it the same way you think of an XBox compared to a Windows PC. Yeah, they're both made by Microsoft, but the XBox doesn't run Windows, it runs a smaller GUI on top of what is mostly a DirectX back end.
What's funny is the reason people keep thinking of the Mini is because what consumers really want is an Apple DVR, a Mac Mini with a little stronger hardware, no external power supply, and a built in tuner. Add PVR functionality to Front Row and maybe a little bit more expansive remote and you'd have that. But since the Mini isn't expandable, it isn't even possible for a consumer to cobble together the solution themselves from a PCI tuner card and DVR software available, the closest they can do has lots of "extra parts" lying around from the ElGato external tuner, a monitor adapter to give them the connection they need, and the Mini's power supply, and it still would not be as easy to navigate since a keyboard would probably be needed at some point.
No, it will do those things, but a MacMini costs $600. Not everyone wants to keep their main computer hooked up to the TV. The iTV allows them to watch their iTunes Store-purchased movies on a larger screen than their regular monitor without moving their computer.
The iTV is meant to be an add-on to an existing Macintosh household. Not a self-contained entertainment product like a CableCo box or a PS2.
The idea is the iTV would support more common TV connection methods out of the box, be designed to fit in better aesthetically with home entertainment components, offer better video performance, overall stability, and lower power usage than a MacMini for less.
I hope so. Maybe it will be upconverting for watching current iTunes movies on an HDTV?
I've been wondering about this. Assuming the iTV is just a streaming device which shows a movie stored on iTunes on your PC or Mac, it is probably reasonably simple for Apple to make the iTV also stream video from an iPod (including Nano or even Shuffle).
Of course, why not just plug your iPod directly into the TV? And if there's a movie on your iPod, it came via your iTunes anyway so you can stream from there right...?
I'm not sure what the answer to that is. I do think there's scope for buying a movie in a store, downloading to iPod, and uploading to your iTunes (assuming that you have a low bandwidth net connection).
Is there scope for buying a movie in a store, downloading to iPod, and watching on TV? Or buying a movie in a store, downloading to a 1GB ram drive, and watching on your iTV? I think if I was going to the store anyway, I'd probably buy the HD-DVD instead. But for rental it might work.
You can't please all of the people all of the time.
"I wouldn't hold my breath on the word processing and web surfing. WebTV showed surfing the internet on a TV sucked because trying to read normal-sized text from six feet away was hard, and bumping the text size up would goof up the page layout generally. Same reason word processing would be silly."
I stand by the statement. WebTV failed because at the time everyone had CRT TVs, which are much blurrier than a computer monitor. Even if you are using a new plasma screen set you have to account for how you use your device. One sits in front of their monitor by a couple feet. This makes 12 point text readable. Now, step back from this thread about six feet or so, however far you usually sit from your TV, and you'll see why. Even if you're viewing the screen at the real resolution of the HD set (1920x1080 for the real nice sets) you're still not going to be wanting to read long passages to text from your TV. Kinda like people don't like reading books in their entirety one screen at a time in Acrobat.
When you ask a home entertainment device to perform the functions of a regular computer you're adding all sorts of complexity and starting down a slippery slope. Let's say Apple added the ability to view Word files to the iTV. Someone would complain that they couldn't edit them. Same with iMovie files. Now you have to add that functionality. Then someone would say "well, what about image files? I can already watch my iPhoto library, why can't I do color and brightness/contrast correction?"
This is exactly the same thing that comes up about the iPod and the Apple Phone. Yeah, the iPod has no built-in FM tuner, no voice memo ability, no built in recording ability, built in FM transmitter for the car, ect. And adding these features would make the interface more complicated, when one of the things that makes the iPod such a hit is it's simplicity. Why do current music playing phones suck? Because the player functionality is hidden under a bunch of unintuitive menus, just like most of the other bells and whistles that may have influenced you to buy the phone to begin with. It's the current state of overly complicated interface design that gets people excited about Apple entering the cell phone market.
Edit: Also, one last point. If you put too much functionality into the iTV that is normally relegated to a regular Mac, then charge less for the iTV, you're going to eat into sales of the Mac Mini. Apple wouldn't do this, and this is the main reason I don't think you'll see the ability to open Word files or surf the Net with the iTV, that and it just sounds like a weird feature to have in a set top box.
If you've got your Mini hooked up to your TV and its working good for you I applaud you. The iTV is clearly not aiming for your type of consumer. I've read articles about setting up Minis as PVR's with HD sets, and invariably the indivdulal has some difficulty finding a monitor resolution and refresh rate the HD set will play along with at first, and actual use of the device is hobbled by needing a wireless keyboard or similar. Apple is aiming for the average TV watching consumer with the iTV, who I can tell you from personal experience are not nearly as smart.
untill they release video content internationally, a lot of us will have no use for any of this. itunes video in canada by macworld?
Yeah!!!
Yep! It's called idunny!!!
It's true then; Apple are releasing a toilet with an iPod dock! SWEET!!!!
Yep! It's called idunny!!!
SeaFox, So what you are saying its that:
You're comparing apples to oranges now. A cable box is a tuner and a self-contained unit. As far as we know, iTV will not have a tuner. Its only known function at this time is to stream content from a Mac, so that makes iTV like a Slingbox, not a cableco DVR. And Slingboxes don't have hard drives.
1) the iTV should is not and should not have a harddrive, or any kind of computer capabilities? You say Im comparing apples to oranges when I said my cable box has a harddrive, assuming I dont know what a tuner is, when I was just saying a harddive is not that big a deal. And if it doesnt have one that will be less of a reason to buy one.
2) The bandwidth problem has already been addressed.
Yeah right. Maybe for limited downloads, but I dont see how this can compete in the living room.
Why would you assume I don't mean a Plasma or LCD? They are types of TV's as well. I don't have n HDTV but if I did I would probably get a tube-based HDTV because of the lower cost and better picture (less image ghosting, better color). Plus you stated Plasma and LCD TV's outsell tube-based, which I don't believe. Sounds like a line the TV salesmen gave you.
Well, the only one I know of that will compete with a plasma is a $800 Sony 32 that is very small screen and weighs 200 pounds. Good luck handing that on the wall. And when it breaks you well need an in home repair technician. You expect me to provide a link, when you should be the one providing the link that tube tvs are outselling flat panels. I also didnt hear this from a sales person. (thats a good example of your condescending behavior.) Tube TVs are gone! Say good bye to 4:3 forever! I have no idea what your point is, but at least you are consistent.
The price of HD-DVD and BluRay players both will fall soon. Just as the price of HDTV's is going to fall through the floor in the U.S. after analog broadcasting gets pulled in 2009. Digital TV (and by extension, HD) will no longer be a luxury service for the wealthy.
You could also buy a PS3, a BluRay player for as low as $600.
3) A $1000 plasma is only for the wealthy? Well, the price just dropped in half in the past several months and 1k is six months of beer money, or cigarette money for your average construction worker or college kid. Sometimes life is about choices. So that flat panel is already a more economical choice. You could also say the same thing about Macs being for the wealthy and that would make more sense.
As far as the BluRay, $600 is still out of my price rage. But if iTV isnt going to offer HD then its a mute point.
4) When you ask a home entertainment device to perform the functions of a regular computer you're adding all sorts of complexity and starting down a slippery slope. Let's say Apple added the ability to view Word files to the iTV. Someone would complain that they couldn't edit them. Same with iMovie files. Now you have to add that functionality. Then someone would say "well, what about image files? I can already watch my iPhoto library, why can't I do color and brightness/contrast correction?"
I really dont think adding the features most people use everyday is going to be too complicated. As I said most people dont use Final Cut Pro or Photo shop, yet they have digital cameras and would like to store these pics and have some basic level of software, and a USB or Firewire plugs, so they can take advantage of their widescreen TV.
So while you challenge each and every point, your own reasoning falls short of the real world expectations. The average TV is going to be 42 50 flat panel and people are going to want to use this for a digital media center, as well as a monitor. So, it may not happen this year but this is clearly the direction of a living room digital entertainment center.
And while I think my post are more of a wish list, your expectations are to frugal and outdated.
You're comparing apples to oranges now. A cable box is a tuner and a self-contained unit. As far as we know, iTV will not have a tuner. Its only known function at this time is to stream content from a Mac, so that makes iTV like a Slingbox, not a cableco DVR. And Slingboxes don't have hard drives.
1) the iTV should is not and should not have a harddrive, or any kind of computer capabilities? You say Im comparing apples to oranges when I said my cable box has a harddrive, assuming I dont know what a tuner is, when I was just saying a harddive is not that big a deal. And if it doesnt have one that will be less of a reason to buy one.
2) The bandwidth problem has already been addressed.
Yeah right. Maybe for limited downloads, but I dont see how this can compete in the living room.
Why would you assume I don't mean a Plasma or LCD? They are types of TV's as well. I don't have n HDTV but if I did I would probably get a tube-based HDTV because of the lower cost and better picture (less image ghosting, better color). Plus you stated Plasma and LCD TV's outsell tube-based, which I don't believe. Sounds like a line the TV salesmen gave you.
Well, the only one I know of that will compete with a plasma is a $800 Sony 32 that is very small screen and weighs 200 pounds. Good luck handing that on the wall. And when it breaks you well need an in home repair technician. You expect me to provide a link, when you should be the one providing the link that tube tvs are outselling flat panels. I also didnt hear this from a sales person. (thats a good example of your condescending behavior.) Tube TVs are gone! Say good bye to 4:3 forever! I have no idea what your point is, but at least you are consistent.
The price of HD-DVD and BluRay players both will fall soon. Just as the price of HDTV's is going to fall through the floor in the U.S. after analog broadcasting gets pulled in 2009. Digital TV (and by extension, HD) will no longer be a luxury service for the wealthy.
You could also buy a PS3, a BluRay player for as low as $600.
3) A $1000 plasma is only for the wealthy? Well, the price just dropped in half in the past several months and 1k is six months of beer money, or cigarette money for your average construction worker or college kid. Sometimes life is about choices. So that flat panel is already a more economical choice. You could also say the same thing about Macs being for the wealthy and that would make more sense.
As far as the BluRay, $600 is still out of my price rage. But if iTV isnt going to offer HD then its a mute point.
4) When you ask a home entertainment device to perform the functions of a regular computer you're adding all sorts of complexity and starting down a slippery slope. Let's say Apple added the ability to view Word files to the iTV. Someone would complain that they couldn't edit them. Same with iMovie files. Now you have to add that functionality. Then someone would say "well, what about image files? I can already watch my iPhoto library, why can't I do color and brightness/contrast correction?"
I really dont think adding the features most people use everyday is going to be too complicated. As I said most people dont use Final Cut Pro or Photo shop, yet they have digital cameras and would like to store these pics and have some basic level of software, and a USB or Firewire plugs, so they can take advantage of their widescreen TV.
So while you challenge each and every point, your own reasoning falls short of the real world expectations. The average TV is going to be 42 50 flat panel and people are going to want to use this for a digital media center, as well as a monitor. So, it may not happen this year but this is clearly the direction of a living room digital entertainment center.
And while I think my post are more of a wish list, your expectations are to frugal and outdated.
Guys,
For home cinema systems, I would agree that Plasma/LCD outsell tubes/rear projection systems. However, there are still more tube TVs sold for non home-cinema systems (ie people without surround sound) and will be while they are cheaper.
It will be very interesting to watch Apple's moves in this area. I believe Apple's first device will be made as simple as possible to allow them to catch the attention (and understanding) of as many people as possible.
For home cinema systems, I would agree that Plasma/LCD outsell tubes/rear projection systems. However, there are still more tube TVs sold for non home-cinema systems (ie people without surround sound) and will be while they are cheaper.
It will be very interesting to watch Apple's moves in this area. I believe Apple's first device will be made as simple as possible to allow them to catch the attention (and understanding) of as many people as possible.
Well here is a link for LCD outselling CRT in both Europe and North America.
http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-6138678.html
http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-6138678.html
Why doesn't Apple just team up with Nintendo and release an iTV/iTunes channel for the Wii?
The Wii already has internal WiFi built in capable of streaming. To top it off, a SD memory card slot as an additional source for playing movies....seriously, releasing an iTV when people already have a cable box, Tivo, DVD player, & video game machine.........pointless.
The Wii already has internal WiFi built in capable of streaming. To top it off, a SD memory card slot as an additional source for playing movies....seriously, releasing an iTV when people already have a cable box, Tivo, DVD player, & video game machine.........pointless.
What's is a channel for the Wii? I don't know much about the setup.
Does the Wii do everything the iTV is supposed to do? I had thought the Wii was a pure games machine (unlike PS3/XBox360), and thus would be good in partnership with an iTV... but I really haven't looked into it and sounds like I may be wrong.
It looks like its going to play YouTube on your TV and be a HDMI/DVI/USB switch board.
A video processor or scaler would be nice.
If it doesnt have HD there wont be much demand for iTunes download.
I wish they would team up with a high speed satellite internet provider and provide an iDish, but it looks like Apple is thinking small potatoes and thinks its going go luck out with another simple iPod device.
It is a good price point and a lot of people will want to watch YouTube on their tv, and a HDMI/DVI switch is about a $100 bucks.
A video processor or scaler would be nice.
If it doesnt have HD there wont be much demand for iTunes download.
I wish they would team up with a high speed satellite internet provider and provide an iDish, but it looks like Apple is thinking small potatoes and thinks its going go luck out with another simple iPod device.
It is a good price point and a lot of people will want to watch YouTube on their tv, and a HDMI/DVI switch is about a $100 bucks.
It might also have the capacity to use a TV as a monitor through wireless airport. If there is a video processor, word processing text will also be crisp and clean. I could get a mac mini and iTV and use my new 42 plasma as the monitor.
It might also have the capacity to use a TV as a monitor through wireless airport. If there is a video processor, word processing text will also be crisp and clean. I could get a mac mini and iTV and use my new 42 plasma as the monitor.
You're not going to get broadcast quality computer -> video scaling at $299, which means your text is not going to be crisp.
It works for movies because there is much color and luma variation.
Now if you hook the Mini directly to the plasma and can drive the plasma at the native resolution, then it will probably look fine.
-mark
I entirely DISagree
It's the cost and convenience that will determine how successful iTS downloads are. I would hope for DVD quality (including surround sound).
One day I'll have a HD screen and I'll be wanting to use a HD service.. so it'd be good for Apple to have a plan there for that
I entirely DISagree
It's the cost and convenience that will determine how successful iTS downloads are. I would hope for DVD quality (including surround sound).
One day I'll have a HD screen and I'll be wanting to use a HD service.. so it'd be good for Apple to have a plan there for that
Good point.
But it seems like most people are dying for HD over here. We have quite a few cable and satellite providers that have HD and who ever offers the most channel, people are going to choose that one. Comcast is supposed to roll out 20 more HD channels in 07. The same goes for the others.
Direct TV which is one of the major satellite providers didnt anticipate the demand for HD DVD and they were on back order for months, about a month ago, when I was choosing a cable provider. You buy that HD DVD for $200, a two year contract for HD, and rent the box then return it. (yeah right?) And you had to get on a waiting list.
I dont think anyone anticipated the demand for HD. People watch programs they normally wouldnt if its HD.
There are still a lot of analog cable subscribers on Comcast, you dont need a digital box, but they are going to be forced to use digital so Comcast can make room on the bandwidth for more HD channels.
Digital 480p isnt bad, but its 4:3 aspect.
I would say PQ is the highest concern. And I agree price is also right up there, and its a different market.