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Digital Skunk

macrumors G3
Dec 23, 2006
8,097
923
In my imagination
Very LR vs Ap like this thread has become.

If you OP must know, I am one of the few that has switched form LR to Aperture, back to LR, and then back to Aperture and have a great deal of knowledge on both.

If you want an application that won't lock you into certain modules and won't perform certain functions until you move to another part of the application, go with LR.

If you want an application that just lays it all out there for you to use at your fingertips no matter what you are doing or where you are in the UI then Aperture is for you.

If you want full customization of the UI at the press of a shortcut, Aperture is for you.

If you want to easily import your iPhoto Library then go with Aperture. If you want curves go with LR (although LR still doesn't come close to editing like PS)

If you use other Apple apps, especially the pro stuff you should really consider Aperture. There's no way LR can keep up with the software integration that Aperture provides.

If you are strickly a still shooter, and won't be using any of the other multimedia apps Apple has or iLife or iWork, then Lightroom is okay.

As others have said, download them both and try them out.

p.s. Either app will generate a JPG preview of the image on import but not a very large one. With both you can change the size of the preview.
 

gkarris

macrumors G3
Dec 31, 2004
8,301
1,061
"No escape from Reality...”
iPhoto is great for organizing and managing jpgs, but sucks for RAW files. It creates a jpg file for every RAW upon import, and that eats up space very quickly.

I've been looking for an easier way to manage my RAW workflow, and fiddling a bit with Lightroom, it appears to be what I want.

Has any of you ever transferred all your RAW files from iPhoto to Lightroom? If so, how have you done it? What problems have you encountered?

Are you sure? When I look at the photos I've imported, the filename extension has it as a raw format, rather than .jpg, and there is a "RAW" label to the bottom right when I view the photos and edit them. I have to export to .jpg when I want a .jpg version.

I''m usiing iPhoto '08.
 

ajpl

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2008
219
0
There seems to be some confusion about Dodge+Burn in Aperture and LR.
Simply put, LR edits non destructively, when doing dodge+ Burn and with graduated filters using RAW files and metadata developing.
Aperture however does not edit non-destructively when doing dodge +burn. It's D+B method is fundamentally no different from exporting to PS to do the job, as it creates a new file to work on and is no longer using the nondestructive RAW workflow. Even worse, when using PS, you can use layers to edit non-destructively, so this is not good in several ways.
 

Winni

macrumors 68040
Oct 15, 2008
3,207
1,196
Germany.
I believe Lightroom 2 employs SQLite for its catalog system.

So does Aperture.

Just to add my 2 cents: I never liked Lightroom's user interface and philosophy and I find iPhoto too lew-end, especially when we're talking about RAW images.

Aperture 2 still is quite buggy and Apple is too slow at adding support for new cameras, but I love this program nevertheless. Aperture 2 is very compatible with the way that I think and work, and I think it's the best app on the market for its specific purposes. Aperture's support for two displays still is a killer feature for me. I also have PhotoShop Extended for more advanced editing needs, but most of the time Aperture 2 offers everything that I need.
 

ajpl

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2008
219
0
Very LR vs Ap like this thread has become
Very Yoda like, you are.

If you OP must know, I am one of the few that has switched form LR to Aperture, back to LR, and then back to Aperture and have a great deal of knowledge on both.
Obviously not if you then say this. :p

If you want an application that won't lock you into certain modules and won't perform certain functions until you move to another part of the application, go with LR.
This is such utter nonsense. You are never locked in. Rather than use a different panel/tab in the workspace, you use a different page/tab of the software to do a task. Which simply makes for a less cluttered more efficient workspace. Why have all tools on display all at once? [Actually you don't in either programme.]
Completely separate functions are on separate pages/tabs, rather than separate panels, but you can have a second monitor with a choice of other features such as grid, compare,slideshow when developing if you really want to alongside which ever job you are doing.
But what is very odd is that I'm now looking at Aperture and it has less functionality on screen than does LR in one of it's modules.
In Aperture to adjust an image I click on Ajustment panel and I can tweak images, in LR I click on Develop Module and I can tweak images. - There is no real difference, both toolsets are a single click away - except that you get more options and way more functionality when the entire UI becomes the adjustment panel. So you can have extra features such as a history panel or being able to save any combination of tweaks as develop presets. The latter saves me a huuuuuge amount of time - Not even present in Aperture. Lift and stamp is not the same thing. That feature alone makes LR better and much faster than Aperture. I can choose image, apply a complex preset, fine tune and be done in seconds.

If making a slideshow, you do not need any functions on display but slideshow features, but should you change your mind about say the look of an image in LR press 'D' and you can redevelop the look quite easily and another click and you are back in the slide module. So no harder than clicking on different part of a UI with everything displayed all together.
In Aperture to do a slideshow you have to go through two pop up dialogues to get to less options than in LR. So hardly everything at your findertips, unlike LR's slideshow interface.

If you want an application that just lays it all out there for you to use at your fingertips no matter what you are doing or where you are in the UI then Aperture is for you.
Funny I find LR works just like that for me. Yet I don't with Aperture as more clicking is needed with Aperture and annoying multiple popup dialogue boxes to go through, such as with slideshows.

If you want full customization of the UI at the press of a shortcut, Aperture is for you.
Full customisation!!! :confused: Obviously, you've never used a programme that you can really customise then. LR is not that customisable in the normal sense, but it's UI is independently tweakable for each task - quite handy. And tweaking of each part of interface is a click away.
Aperture's keyboard customisation is however something LR seriously lacks.

If you want to easily import your iPhoto Library then go with Aperture. If you want curves go with LR (although LR still doesn't come close to editing like PS)
But it's damn close. I only use PS for compositing and layer blending work now as LR/ACR is so powerful and easy to use. LR is a better RAW editor, which is an important consideration when comparing RAW editing software. :D
I've also imported an iPhoto library for someone else and sorted it properly into dated folders no problem with LR.

If you use other Apple apps, especially the pro stuff you should really consider Aperture. There's no way LR can keep up with the software integration that Aperture provides.
But if you use Adobe apps.....

If you are strickly a still shooter, and won't be using any of the other multimedia apps Apple has or iLife or iWork, then Lightroom is okay
. As no other multimedia apps exist bar those by Apple!!! ;)


As others have said, download them both and try them out.
Seconded.


But oddly, what you did miss is that Aperture can produce books and LR cannot. And that is the only time where I see Aperture being better and why I have a copy.

But the main reason I never bother with Aperture instead of LR is the sheer difficulty of getting images into the wretched programme. I just tried to import several folders and cannot. I can only do it one at a time it appears. Not a huge problem if making a book as all images can easily be in one place anyway - I asked an Aperture expert at Apple how to import multiple folders and he was stumped too. If I want to import 10 years worth of work into Aperture, it appeared that you have to do so one folder at a time. And that is not going to happen. I believe there is actually a way around this, but cannot remember method and Aperture help gives no indication as to how.
Also if you want to do a web gallery you have to have a .mac/Mobile Me accout to do so. So Aperture doesn't even have a web module for me to use.

Aperture is however much cheaper than LR. But as it is quite limited in comparison that makes sense.
But it Aperture does all that you need, and speed is less important, then paying more for LR is not worth it, but for pros where time and efficiency is money......and as Bridge and LR share same development engine you can use a file browser or a database to organise/deal with your images, so best of both worlds. File browsers can be much better to use than Databases at times.
 

MacNoobie

macrumors 6502a
Mar 15, 2005
545
0
Colorado
So does Aperture.

Just to add my 2 cents: I never liked Lightroom's user interface and philosophy and I find iPhoto too lew-end, especially when we're talking about RAW images.

Aperture 2 still is quite buggy and Apple is too slow at adding support for new cameras, but I love this program nevertheless. Aperture 2 is very compatible with the way that I think and work, and I think it's the best app on the market for its specific purposes. Aperture's support for two displays still is a killer feature for me. I also have PhotoShop Extended for more advanced editing needs, but most of the time Aperture 2 offers everything that I need.

iPhoto is really on the low end of the spectrum the only features that I would use are making calendars to be quite honest beyond that there's no reason to use it for RAW work. As far as UI goes I don't find them that much different each one has a folder/hard drive column on the left hand side, the main display window that shows a large view of your photo, the photo strip at the bottom, and a set of white balance and exposure tools to the right hand side. What philosophy are we talking about with regards to working with the program as I thought the point of both software's was to work with images non destructively? Also Lightroom 2 adds support for 2 monitors and I believe one can be running a slideshow for example and you can work on a set of images with the other.

Aperture 2 I've found isn't as buggy but adding new camera support to it is like pulling teeth so that was a big deal breaker along with having 2 files for the same photo as I've mentioned before. Wouldn't it also make sense to have further integration with Photoshop if you do round trip edits into Photoshop either for finishing or output?
 

MacNoobie

macrumors 6502a
Mar 15, 2005
545
0
Colorado
*snip* *snip* *snip*..

One thing I didn't like with Lightroom 2 is the lack of creating a slide show and being able to export it as a Flash animation (.SWF) as oppose to a .PDF. Not sure exactly how popular PDF format is for presenting slideshows but it seems like it would be much more beneficial to create Flash animations considering that Adobe now owns Macromedia and can add Flash animation export quite easily.
 

Phrasikleia

macrumors 601
Feb 24, 2008
4,082
403
Over there------->
One thing I didn't like with Lightroom 2 is the lack of creating a slide show and being able to export it as a Flash animation (.SWF) as oppose to a .PDF. Not sure exactly how popular PDF format is for presenting slideshows but it seems like it would be much more beneficial to create Flash animations considering that Adobe now owns Macromedia and can add Flash animation export quite easily.

You can create a Flash slideshow with LR:

lrflashgallery.png
 

Cliff3

macrumors 68000
Nov 2, 2007
1,556
178
SF Bay Area
One thing I didn't like with Lightroom 2 is the lack of creating a slide show and being able to export it as a Flash animation (.SWF) as oppose to a .PDF. Not sure exactly how popular PDF format is for presenting slideshows but it seems like it would be much more beneficial to create Flash animations considering that Adobe now owns Macromedia and can add Flash animation export quite easily.

I would imagine they don't want to have LR compete for sales with Flash. If you want to create Flash animations, then Adobe wants you to buy Flash. I don't see this feature in Aperture either, so this doesn't appear to be an issue specific to LR, just a general issue.
 

Digital Skunk

macrumors G3
Dec 23, 2006
8,097
923
In my imagination

Exactly and to each their own. If you think Lightroom is customizable, then you must be talking about changing the name at the top of the app which if that makes you happy then so be it. I don't know if LR2 has change that though.

On the multimedia part, even those made by others like Avid. Being able to export a slideshow from Aperture that has an EDL to it that links to the files else where is wonderful.

The biggest thing going for LR are the flash galleries.

The biggest thing going for Aperture is the OSX integration and albums (if you need them).

Other than that it's personal preference, and those two things are still in that personal preference category.
 

ajpl

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2008
219
0
Exactly and to each their own. If you think Lightroom is customizable, then you must be talking about changing the name at the top of the app which if that makes you happy then so be it. I don't know if LR2 has change that though.
You haven't even used LR2, yet claimed to have a great deal of knowledge on LR!!? I explored LR from the beta, but used it for work only after 1.3 came out, as it wasn't good enough before that. We then had 1.4 more improvements and LR2 is better still. Aperture sadly still isn't good or fast enough.
In LR's modules/tabs you can individually assign preferences to any of the 4 panels and their behaviour/visibility and the second screen also has several modes, one of which is the library grid with filters in it so you can be developing and also access the folder of images you are working in, so you can mix up your functionality unlike your original claim. No that clicking on a tab on left [in Aperture] or name at top right [in LR] is actually any different in reality.
Not sure how you can even say Aperture is so customisable - it's made by Apple, who don't exactly believe in such things.

On the multimedia part, even those made by others like Avid. Being able to export a slideshow from Aperture that has an EDL to it that links to the files else where is wonderful.
That is certainly a good thing, shame making the slideshow is so clunky and modal in first place. But Aperture does do fit to music, which LR still doesn't do.

The biggest thing going for LR are the flash galleries.
The biggest thing going for Aperture is the OSX integration and albums (if you need them).
So not discovered Collections and smart collections yet then? File management in OSX is something I use much better software for, so Aperture's integration with say the unmitigatingly awful Finder is irrelevant as I have Finder turned off. Besides the RAW developer is the biggest thing going for LR. And the most important feature of all.:p
Aperture doesn't even have Web galleries - unless you pay Apple more money.

Other than that it's personal preference, and those two things are still in that personal preference category.
Nothing wrong with personal preference, but you seem to basing yours on not actually knowing how to use LR properly and ignoring the useful tools it has that Aperture does not and these are facts that are not preference. Unless you prefer a less useful toolset. :D The fact that LR is a much better and more powerful RAW developer [not a personal preference or view] than Aperture, should be the first criteria for choosing one's RAW developer, you'd think. Non destructive localised editing of 7 different attributes such exposure or saturation, is a fantastically powerful tool and not even possible in Aperture and nor are graduated filters. LR's speed is also not a preference. LR is much faster in use.

Not to say I'm uncritical of LR, it is deeply flawed in places such as not importing all digital files into the library section, but Aperture has same issues too.
The thing that strikes me most about Aperture is how old fashioned and clunky it now seems, particularly after using a more streamlined workspace that doesn't have stupid dialogue boxes popping up all over monitor and getting in way. And calling some of them HUDs is simply pretentious. It's a more cluttered interface than LR and with less features too - double whammy. No wonder they dropped the price so much - and it still doesn't sell much compared to LR. I'm glad it's there though as competition is good, though Aperture is not fulfilling its early promise sadly..
 

OreoCookie

macrumors 68030
Apr 14, 2001
2,727
90
Sendai, Japan
Not sure how you can even say Aperture is so customisable - it's made by Apple, who don't exactly believe in such things.
You can customize the views, your shortcuts, etc. Where do you think it is lacking?
Aperture doesn't even have Web galleries - unless you pay Apple more money.
This is incorrect, you can export to a folder. If you use MacFuse, you can publish directly to your server as well (as long as you have ftp/ssh access to it, of course), you don't need to subscribe to MobileMe to do so. You can also use one of the plugins to export to flickr, for instance, as well.


I don't want to enter this discussion (as much as it looks that way), but it seems to me that you're guilty of the same crime, you accuse others of: not knowing the other app properly.
For you, the locking into modules (which you think of as tabs) is not limiting whereas for others, it is. Can't you accept that others find it limiting instead?
 

ajpl

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2008
219
0
You can customize the views, your shortcuts, etc. Where do you think it is lacking?
First thought - Customisable drag and drop workspaces that you can store - like in Bridge for example. Different tasks reguire a different layout
I've also used software where everything is customisable - PC software, so nearly everything on OSX seems a bit lacking in comparison. In one programme I use it can take 30mins - an hour to go through all the very detailed options. Which seems crazy, but it then saves you so much time afterwards as well as the programme then doing what you want makes it a fantastic tool. Even better, you can simply saves the customisation to export to installs on other computers/fresh intalls and so it takes mere seconds after the first time. Something I've been feature requesting for Adobe apps for a very long time. Another example - in Corel Draw you can place every single menu item/command/tool/feature..... on the toobar if you are so inclined and there are many hundreds I believe. You only ever need a small selection of those usually [thanks to the context sensitive toolbar that both Adobe and MS copied later], but as everyone needs a different subset, they let you choose exactly what you need for your work. A much better way of doing things.
I would like LR to be more customisable too, but it needs it far less than Aperture as it's moved away from the irritatng lots of annoying popup dialogue boxes paradigm and it's been designed completely afresh, like many other excellent UIs. Abletons Live for example.

This is incorrect, you can export to a folder. If you use MacFuse, you can publish directly to your server as well (as long as you have ftp/ssh access to it, of course), you don't need to subscribe to MobileMe to do so. You can also use one of the plugins to export to flickr, for instance, as well.
Well seeing as when you try to to create a web gallery from File/New/Web Gallery it won't let you unless you have a .Mac account, forgive me for thinking it won't let you create a web gallery otherwise. Plugins for Flickr are not relevent either. If a basic feature like making a web gallery is hidden away and fiddly to achieve, simply so Apple can try and coerce you into paying them more money, then programme fails on those grounds anyway.
It's much easier in LR, click Slideshow Tab, choose style, modify if you want, then export or upload to your server. No plugins, subscriptions or any other software required. Aperture will let you do some very limited web pages, but not it appears a Web Gallery without a .Mac subscription. Which is what I said. Web Gallery - viewing multiple images sequentially on a single page.


I don't want to enter this discussion (as much as it looks that way), but it seems to me that you're guilty of the same crime, you accuse others of: not knowing the other app properly.
Admittedly, I don't spend much time with Aperture as it's crippled compared to LR. But I did spend the time finding that out in first place and I also check if they've fixed any gotchas with new releases, unlike some.

For you, the locking into modules (which you think of as tabs) is not limiting whereas for others, it is. Can't you accept that others find it limiting instead?
It's only limiting if you think it is different. It isn't different. Adjustments for images on both are a single click away. In one you change 1/6th of view on the other you change 1/2 the view [on dual monitors]. And you are not locked in, that's a ridiculous thing to say in my view. And as it gives you more functionality, it is anything but limiting
Give one concrete example of how you are limited by a tabbed window paradigm as opposed to a tabbed panel paradigm as that it effectively what the difference is, but the tabbed window variation gives you more space for each type of function. Besides when would you want to fidle with the web gallery when say you are printing? It's daft to think things are 'closer' or more 'open' just because you're clicking a panel tab intead of a window tab.
 

OreoCookie

macrumors 68030
Apr 14, 2001
2,727
90
Sendai, Japan
First thought - Customisable drag and drop workspaces that you can store - like in Bridge for example. Different tasks reguire a different layout
Yes, and this is the feature I love most about Aperture: most things I need are literally only one push of the button away (some things like your view toggles, so it could be two).
Well seeing as when you try to to create a web gallery from File/New/Web Gallery it won't let you unless you have a .Mac account, forgive me for thinking it won't let you create a web gallery otherwise.
Not with my version of Aperture. Or any of the previous ones I've used. Create a new Webpage/Web Journal from the menu, add pictures and hit export. Yes, there is also an export to Mobile Me button, but so what? The result looks something like this. Took about 30 seconds to create. Of course, it contains just one picture, but I hope this is sufficient as a proof of concept. And you can customize it, too. Perhaps not to your liking, but that was not the argument. I have never had a .Mac/mobile me subscription.
It's only limiting if you think it is different. It isn't different.
Just because the functionality is there, doesn't mean it doesn't feels limiting to some: for example, I don't get along with Canon dslrs. No matter what features they have, unless they change their UI paradigm, I won't buy one, period. However, I do have great respect for their craftsmanship, because I still think they make great cameras. They have all the functionality I need just like my current dslr, yes. But it's not about features. And yes, there are some who can't work with, say, Nikon or Olympus for the same reason and love their Canon. It's about taking great pictures, not the brand of your camera.

Lightroom has always felt restrictive in the same way Canon's dslrs have felt unnatural in my hands. (I've tried Lightroom 1 beta, Lightroom 1 Demo and Lightroom 2 beta, but it has always been the same story.) Me and my Nikon get along just fine. I have never needed to read the manual. Perhaps I could get used to it, but why should I if there is something that feels right to me? Since Lightroom does not have equivalents for two very important features, books and vaults (for offsite backups), I don't feel the need to reconsider.
Give one concrete example of how you are limited by a tabbed window paradigm as opposed to a tabbed panel paradigm as that it effectively what the difference is, but the tabbed window variation gives you more space for each type of function.
The paradigm of modules is just not the way I think, I'm very spontaneous. But if you like an example: no matter if I edit a book, a website or an album, if I select an image and press H, I can immediately tweak it and then continue with whatever I'm doing. This is consistent throughout all of Aperture. If I'm editing a book, I can see the result on the book page -- live. Perhaps I want to tweak the colors so that they suit the rest of the pictures on the page? Changing modules would mean tweak, change back and check, tweak, etc. My brain doesn't switch modes (you call 'em tabs) and I don't want to have to get used to doing that in my photo management app.

Why are you so zealous over your image editing app, if you're a photographer, I'll judge you by your pictures, not your preferred image editing app ;)
 

Digital Skunk

macrumors G3
Dec 23, 2006
8,097
923
In my imagination
...h - and it still doesn't sell much compared to LR. I'm glad it's there though as competition is good, though Aperture is not fulfilling its early promise sadly..

What's your point? Did you read where I said to each there own, and that LR works better for others than Aperture does?

I did say that most multimedia persons use Aperture since it easily exports other formats to media apps better that LR?

God, WTF is your problem?

I take it that you haven't used Aperture 2.0, and I mean extensively since I HAVE used LR2, but nothing related to my actual workflow and image library.

Get over yourself and your tools, we are all just getting work done either way. No need to stroke your ego with awfully long posts.
 

ajpl

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2008
219
0
What's your point? Did you read where I said to each there own, and that LR works better for others than Aperture does?
And I concurred. But also pointed where these tools were better. Or flawed.


God, WTF is your problem?
No problem, just debating merits of programmes. Plus, it can be a good way to discover more about the software at times too.

I take it that you haven't used Aperture 2.0, and I mean extensively since I HAVE used LR2, but nothing related to my actual workflow and image library.
I had both Aperture+ LR open and checked/used them constantly whilst writing the posts.
Your earlier post seemed to indicate you hadn't used LR2.

Get over yourself and your tools, we are all just getting work done either way. No need to stroke your ego with awfully long posts.
Nothing to do with egos, I simply addressed any points of relevence and didn't simply ignore any points that contradicted my own.
 

tcphoto

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2005
758
2
Madison, GA
The only reason I have iPhoto on my computer is because I use iWeb. When I look at the size and capabilities of CS4, Lightroom and iPhoto, I find it amusing how large of an application iPhoto is compared to the others.
 

ajpl

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2008
219
0
Yes, and this is the feature I love most about Aperture: most things I need are literally only one push of the button away (some things like your view toggles, so it could be two).
Uh, not sure what you mean as you seem to be 'agreeing' with something that I think is missing. :confused: And things in LR are normally a mere click away too. :)

Not with my version of Aperture. Or any of the previous ones I've used. Create a new Webpage/Web Journal from the menu, add pictures and hit export. Yes, there is also an export to Mobile Me button, but so what? The result looks something like this. Took about 30 seconds to create. Of course, it contains just one picture, but I hope this is sufficient as a proof of concept. And you can customize it, too. Perhaps not to your liking, but that was not the argument. I have never had a .Mac/mobile me subscription.
As I said above web gallery, not web page, a subtle but important distinction. Quickly creating something I don't want, is not a solution. :p Show me how to create a web gallery in Aperture without .Mac. i.e. a series of images viewable sequentially or via thumbnails on a single web page.

Just because the functionality is there, doesn't mean it doesn't feels limiting to some: for example, I don't get along with Canon dslrs. No matter what features they have, unless they change their UI paradigm, I won't buy one, period. However, I do have great respect for their craftsmanship, because I still think they make great cameras. They have all the functionality I need just like my current dslr, yes. But it's not about features. And yes, there are some who can't work with, say, Nikon or Olympus for the same reason and love their Canon.
But that's normally because it's different, therefore it simply seems wrong and it is only because of what you are used to, not because it is any worse. When testing a new version of PS or a keyboard for example, somethings will feel awkward as they are different, but then when going back to the old version, the old way now seems wrong and you realise it did need improving. Though some PS 'improvements' get reversed as they didn't work as well as Adobe thought. :rolleyes:
LR seems more different from the normal than Aperture, which is fundamentally very traditional in its UI. So LR needs time to start with, but is well worth groking. Sometimes with programmes it's handy to see someone who is fluid with it and learn how they use it.

It's about taking great pictures, not the brand of your camera.
Very True. :D

Lightroom has always felt restrictive in the same way Canon's dslrs have felt unnatural in my hands. (I've tried Lightroom 1 beta, Lightroom 1 Demo and Lightroom 2 beta, but it has always been the same story.) Me and my Nikon get along just fine. I have never needed to read the manual.
But is that because you already know how they work? I found Canon's easy to use and that Nikons hid things away or did things different to everyone else simply for the sake of it - and that was after years of using neither Canon or Nikon stuff. I was using a D3 the other day and had to ask some questions about how to do very basic things. But - and this is the important bit, sometimes after reading the manual and having a play, you realise the odd/different way is actually quite neat.
Perhaps I could get used to it, but why should I if there is something that feels right to me?
Because once you get over the 'Oh my god it's different' phase, you may appreciate there is good reason for the difference and can then work faster.
I currently use Canons, simply as Nikon did not make a FF camera until recently - a purely practical decision. If buying a fresh after say a theft of all my kit, I'd spend time with both and also the Sony, before deciding which to buy. I also use a Mac and a PC, both seem odd if I've been using just the one for a while.

Since Lightroom does not have equivalents for two very important features, books and vaults (for offsite backups), I don't feel the need to reconsider.
The lack of books is indeed a silly oversight and why I also have a copy of Aperture. LR works differently from Aperture and Vaults are not needed in the same way. I back up my images independently of LR and I can also view the developed images in Bridge no problem - a huge advantage. Theoretically, as all the edits are stored with the image, not in the software, other software can view the developed file. This fundamentally is my main reason for not using Aperture. I do not like being tied to anyone.

The paradigm of modules is just not the way I think, I'm very spontaneous.
Me too. Don't find it an issue.
But if you like an example: no matter if I edit a book, a website or an album, if I select an image and press H, I can immediately tweak it and then continue with whatever I'm doing.
I press 'D' instead. And then the apposite shotcut key to go back. LR has more features in the adjustment section therefore it woudn't actually fit on a single panel like in Aperture.
This is consistent throughout all of Aperture
As 'D' is in LR.

If I'm editing a book, I can see the result on the book page -- live. Perhaps I want to tweak the colors so that they suit the rest of the pictures on the page? Changing modules would mean tweak, change back and check, tweak, etc. My brain doesn't switch modes (you call 'em tabs) and I don't want to have to get used to doing that in my photo management app.
And I thought you were spontaneous. ;) But at last a good example, though sadly LR doesn't have a book mode :( , so not so applicable, but yes being able to alter image whilst looking at it on page could be useful [though only on very rare occasions I'd say]. But with slideshow and web most people will get images correct before going into the web/slideshow tab. Though if LR gets a book section, no reason why it cannot go on second monitor like other modes do.

I was playing with Aperture earlier and discoved a very annoying feature. The adjustments tab's optional adjustments vary on an image by image basis. So you end up having to add all the extra adjustments you want to each specific image it seems. Is there a way around this as that is soooo annoying. Not even sure why they are hidden in a menu anyway, as some of them I use all the time. Plus the lack of solo mode for each section makes for a lot of clicking or scrolling.


Why are you so zealous over your image editing app, if you're a photographer, I'll judge you by your pictures, not your preferred image editing app ;)
Not zealous, I simply like LR and find Aperture extremely lacking as a RAW developer and dreadful for File management. I prefer to have a very good filing system independent of any software or OS. So I like to use both File Managers [Bridge/Pathfinder/DirectoryOpus] and a Database to manage my files. Plus I'm know I cannot do some of my images with Aperture and most certainly not as quickly, due to the lack of presets and localised editing. So my preferred editing app does very directly affects my output. My website is linked on my profile I believe, if you want to see my images.
The power and features of ACR, mean I now spend very little time in PS compared to previous years and I now use PS just for the compositing or textural work on images.


I just spent some time working on images in Aperture today and what surprised me most, is how amateurish and unfinished it feels in places. Reminiscent of, but nowhere near as bad as Hasselblad's Flexcolour. But I got a nice look to an image I'd also played around with in LR. Not the same but still nice. A real shame you can't record develop presets like in LR. Lift + Stamp is not the same. So I duplicated the look in LR and saved a preset, now one click and it's applied.
And how on earth do you get JPEGs to import when you also have DNGs/other RAW files with same name in a folder?
 

wheelhot

macrumors 68020
Nov 23, 2007
2,082
269
aargh...this is getting ridiculous, to the op, try out both, we do not know which one you might prefer cause its more like a user preference thing, both Aperture and Lightroom is a photo management software which is capable of doing some basic adjustments/global adjustments (although Aperture might beat LR in some adjustments due to Adobe dont want LR to steal Photoshop sales.) Photoshop on the other hand is a photo editing tool, its the grand mama of all photo editing software.
 

ajpl

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2008
219
0
No problem brother. It was early morning and had to scrape myself out of the driveway, wasn't feeling too good about that myself.

Now I have to go to work in this iced up winter wonderland called Baltimore. :)
Today, I had to walk up several stairs to my office! And it's unseasonably warm here. 7degrees C. :D
Though I'd rather have snow than our usual near frezing and damp attempt at a Winter. My dad once returned to UK from a Winter in Nova Scotia and complained how cold the UK was!
 

ajpl

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2008
219
0
(although Aperture might beat LR in some adjustments due to Adobe dont want LR to steal Photoshop sales.)
Utter nonsense. LR is by far the better in this area and LR complements PS very well.
LR +PS are different tools and I'd say PS is a waste of time for most photographers, now that programmes like Aperture + LR exist. But photographers are just a small part of PS's market, so Adobe aren't that worried. They'd be more worried if people stated using Aperture instead, so a very good reason for them to make the development tools in LR better than Aperture.
 

OreoCookie

macrumors 68030
Apr 14, 2001
2,727
90
Sendai, Japan
As I said above web gallery, not web page, a subtle but important distinction. Quickly creating something I don't want, is not a solution. :p Show me how to create a web gallery in Aperture without .Mac. i.e. a series of images viewable sequentially or via thumbnails on a single web page.
That's exactly what it creates, although I admit, the web gallery with one singe image didn't show that. Click on an image to see a larger version. There are arrows on top that get you to the next or previous photo. Can we settle this?
But that's normally because it's different, therefore it simply seems wrong and it is only because of what you are used to, not because it is any worse.
I've said the opposite: not that it's a worse product, but simply that it's not the right product for me, that's all. I can be a lot more creative in Aperture.
LR seems more different from the normal than Aperture, which is fundamentally very traditional in its UI. So LR needs time to start with, but is well worth groking. Sometimes with programmes it's handy to see someone who is fluid with it and learn how they use it.
You seem to misunderstand, I really did give Lightroom a chance before I switched form iView to Aperture (I switched to 1.5). I've evaluated it for about two weeks and I just didn't like it as much (still don't). It's not a matter of `getting used to', I have a knack for computer apps (took about half a day or so to learn the basic paradigms of Final Cut 3, not saying I was ever any good with it, but `I got the app').
At that time, Lightroom didn't even have multimonitor support (added with Lightroom 2 afaik). That's hardly what I call professional. Plus I wanted to make books (again, a feature missing up until now in Lightroom). And I strongly dislike having to manually manage my files (a consequence of the disaster with iView, I admit), having them automatically in my Aperture library package is easier for me and I have more time to tinker with images. (AFAIK Lightroom 2 doesn't do that still.) My photos are sorted in a much more clever fashion with hierarchical folders and projects and folders within projects, although there is only one original (this cannot be fully emulated on the level of files and folders, I've had a pretty sophisticated directory structure with iView, no way to do something similar). And if I decide to manually manage to location of my files, I can still do that, even for single files in a project. I have three different vaults and although this feature is not as important as the others above (I could manage to make offsite backups in other ways), it's a very handy and nice thing to have.

Perhaps these points aren't important to others, sure, but they were (and are) important to me at the time when I switched apps last. A mere `you can also do that with Lightroom' is not going to make me switch (which is a lot of work, work that is not reflected in the structure of the files, but in keywords, albums, books and such). I don't mind switching as much as others do, but I do know it was 100+ hours of work last time (although there was more to do), so this is not a decision I'm going to make over a single feature. Some of the missing functionality are simply deal breakers (file management, no books, module interface). And I haven't found Aperture's image editing skills lacking, but then, I'm just an avid amateur, not a professional.
I press 'D' instead. And then the apposite shotcut key to go back. LR has more features in the adjustment section therefore it woudn't actually fit on a single panel like in Aperture.
As 'D' is in LR.
Does D change modules or not?
Can I see the changes live on the book page/web gallery page or not?
But with slideshow and web most people will get images correct before going into the web/slideshow tab. Though if LR gets a book section, no reason why it cannot go on second monitor like other modes do.
I simply don't work that way. If I want to adjust the hue or the warmth of the image to the others or to the background color, then I do it right there.
 

wheelhot

macrumors 68020
Nov 23, 2007
2,082
269
Utter nonsense. LR is by far the better in this area and LR complements PS very well.
LR +PS are different tools and I'd say PS is a waste of time for most photographers, now that programmes like Aperture + LR exist. But photographers are just a small part of PS's market, so Adobe aren't that worried. They'd be more worried if people stated using Aperture instead, so a very good reason for them to make the development tools in LR better than Aperture.
Huh? I dont get it, yes! LR Complements PS (cuz its build by the same company) very well but its adjustments is just similar to Aperture (and how Aperture compliments the OSX environment cause its made by the same company!) and in some things Aperture beats LR and some things LR beats Aperture.

And you are a fool for saying PS is a waste of time for most photographers, before any of these photo management tool appears, what software do photographers use to edit their photos? Photoshop! (and some other 3rd Party Softwares for some), heck, in fact when people start comparing Aperture and Photoshop, Apple said that Aperture is not meant to compete with Photoshop and its just to compliment Photoshop, the same thing goes to LR. If you want to do extensive editing the only solution is to switch to LR. And care to tell me who else uses Photoshop besides photographers or people who edit photos??? Graphic designers will be using Illustrator most of the time, so what else category will people use Photoshop unless they are photographers???

And Im surprised at ur commitment to defend your beloved program, none of us is saying Lightroom is the worst program, dun use it or something like that, we just ask the OP to try both and not to restrict his choice to only 1 program. And its all opinions, the way you are saying is use only Lightroom, forget Aperture, it sucks.
 
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