iWork '07 with Spreadsheet (Screenshot)

[J Radical]

Office 2007 = Excellent

Theres a lot of predictable hate for anything Microsoft here, but I must say that Office 2007 looks damn good. It's the typical Apple cliché to say "PC's are good for dull office stuff.' But under the pejorative marketing jargon it's true!

Office 07 is way ahead of iwork and open/neooffice, you have to hand it to microsoft, they did a great job, and they ain't gonna share it with OS X until Q4 07 I believe...

If Office support for Mac is coming to an end, Apple needs to get a move on and make iWork brilliant at everything, not just presentations and graphics. They should also bundle it with every mac- selling a computer with no word processor is like selling a car with no wheels IMO. (Not everyone has heard of NeoOffice)

Any chance Apple could team up with the open source community and overhaul openoffice for a 3.0 release? If this is iWork 07, I'm disappointed.


There used to be a nice demo of word 07 on the MS website, the link is down however (haha)

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/suites/HA101672651033.aspx

 

[highres]

MS Office is one of the most stable apps on my Mac and has been for years. XL is still the best spreadsheet program out there and will continue to be for quite some time.

All the programs in iWork in general are for beginner or basic users and were created for that purpose or demographic, it's like comparing iWeb to Dreamweaver.

Why would people expect the new spreadsheet app in iWork to be a a fully professional or industrial version when it's purpose is to introduce people to spreadsheet basics?

 

[clevin]

Why would people expect the new spreadsheet app in iWork to be a a fully professional or industrial version when it's purpose is to introduce people to spreadsheet basics?

good point, maybe because ppl have high hope for apple, and openoffice is free for basic spreadsheet functions...

 

[dernhelm]

Theres a lot of predictable hate for anything Microsoft here, but I must say that Office 2007 looks damn good. It's the typical Apple cliché to say "PC's are good for dull office stuff.' But under the pejorative marketing jargon it's true!

Office 07 is way ahead of iwork and open/neooffice, you have to hand it to microsoft, they did a great job, and they ain't gonna share it with OS X until Q4 07 I believe...

If Office support for Mac is coming to an end, Apple needs to get a move on and make iWork brilliant at everything, not just presentations and graphics. They should also bundle it with every mac- selling a computer with no word processor is like selling a car with no wheels IMO. (Not everyone has heard of NeoOffice)

Any chance Apple could team up with the open source community and overhaul openoffice for a 3.0 release? If this is iWork 07, I'm disappointed.


There used to be a nice demo of word 07 on the MS website, the link is down however (haha)

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/suites/HA101672651033.aspx

That means every copy of Windows ships with no wheels? Or are you calling notepad and/or wordpad an actual word processor?

 

[J Radical]

MS Office is one of the most stable apps on my Mac and has been for years. XL is still the best spreadsheet program out there and will continue to be for quite some time.

All the programs in iWork in general are for beginner or basic users and were created for that purpose or demographic, it's like comparing iWeb to Dreamweaver.

Why would people expect the new spreadsheet app in iWork to be a a fully professional or industrial version when it's purpose is to introduce people to spreadsheet basics?

From what you are saying there is no point in anyone buying iWork at all. Office is the defacto standard on the PC, there is no 'beginner' or 'basic' office suite on world's most popular OS.

Office 07 (and most of the offices before it) show that a powerful office app and a user friendly app aren't mutally exclusive, Office 07 does everything iWork does and more. In order for iWork to be relevant, it needs to be competitive.

Office 2007 UI > iWork UI. Apple should really get over their pride, bite the bullet and start their photocopiers.

 

[dernhelm]

I think that once we saw that Keynote blew the pants off MS Powerpoint, we expected Apple to finish the job with a winner of an office suite. Then, Pages, we found out, was not so killer. It didn't suck, but it didn't best MS Word. People have mentioned, however, that it's better for making newletters and whatnot. Well here's my question:

Does Pages blow the pants off of MS Publisher? (Or is it Apple's intent to do so?) I mean, think about it. Publisher sucks as a word processor, but it *could* function as one... Maybe the current Pages is meant to evolve into a Publisher competitor and Apple will release a dedicated word processor, which will compete with MS Word. One never knows.

So for those of you saying "Charts" won't blow the pants off of Excel, don't be too sure. It very well might. It also, may very well be aimed at a consumer level, like many have already mentioned.

Regardless, we're talking about Apple, and Apple knows what they're doing. They know when their software is lack-luster, they know how to make it better, and you can be assured that they will do whatever they can to make iWork a viable option for as many people as possible.

-Clive

You bring up a very good point. Word is terrible at page layout. Publisher is just plain terrible. Yes, Pages does blow the pants of of publisher for page layout. And now that I come to think of it, that is most of what I use Pages for. I never thought of it that way before, but Pages is an excellent Publisher competitor.

But here is one case where I hope Apple doesn't release a separate word-processing product to compete with Word. They should instead upgrade Pages capability to better compete with the more salient features of Word. Hopefully they can do so without losing the simplicity that their product shows now.

 

[adrianblaine]

Office 2007 UI > iWork UI. Apple should really get over their pride, bite the bullet and start their photocopiers.

Have we stopped to think that Apple isn't trying to compete with MS but rather trying to create a new market? MS is not going after the average home user with Office, especially with the pricetag. For all intents and purposes iWork is everything an average home user needs without the loss of money. I don't think most people are moving to the free apps online in droves, it is for them that iWork may be for.

 

[J Radical]

That means every copy of Windows ships with no wheels? Or are you calling notepad and/or wordpad an actual word processor?

Every PC I've bought came with windows and the office/ms works suite.

Thats not to say you don't have a point.

Have we stopped to think that Apple isn't trying to compete with MS but rather trying to create a new market? MS is not going after the average home user with Office, especially with the pricetag. For all intents and purposes iWork is everything an average home user needs without the loss of money. I don't think most people are moving to the free apps online in droves, it is for them that iWork may be for.

Sorry, but I disagree. Having grown up using office for school work etc, iWork doesn't cut the mustard. Don't get me wrong, pages is nice and keynote is definitely better than the current powerpoint, but as a package office is plain better.

 

[swingerofbirch]

I think that a lot of the advanced features Office has are not used by most users. iWork--like iLife and Mac OS X--brings the best of what a computer can do to the end user very quickly. I gave two Keynote presentations in my public speaking class and everyone was AMAZED. They asked me so many questions about the Mac and Keynote and said I could have sold them one on the spot.

I think that you may find some of the more advanced collaboration features in Office will be partially found in the next version of iChat with screen sharing.

I like Keynote and Pages so much that I don't even know if I will have a reason to upgrade. Also, because I have no use for a spreadsheet app. The only enhancement I could see would be a speed improvement in Pages.

 

[Hombre]

didn't try before, can anybody tell me if u goto macmall and buy a student version, will they ask you for proof of student/teacher or not?

The problem is that you break the license agreement when you use an edu version and don't qualify for it. You could then use a pirated copy as well. Doesn't make a difference.

 

[Lovesong]

MS Office is one of the most stable apps on my Mac and has been for years. XL is still the best spreadsheet program out there and will continue to be for quite some time.

Really? I must not be living right then, because in my experience, the only pieces of software that I have had crash on me on a consistent basis have been made by microsoft and adobe. Don't get me wrong, Excel is good. And given my lack of options, I use it on a daily basis. However, I have found myself using Pages and Keynote for most of my word processing/ presentation stuff, and in many ways, I'm hoping that this spreadsheet application will have the math prowess to allow me to abandon XL as well.

 

[MacsAttack]

All the programs in iWork in general are for beginner or basic users and were created for that purpose or demographic

And most people have very basic requirments but end up using word only because they have to use the Word file format - not because they need any of the other features...

MicroSoft has had trouble selling new versions of office since '97 because most users don't need any of the new features. Companies were not amused when they have to shell out for upgrades to office just because MicroSoft changes the file format and now they can' read some of the stuff they are being sent by other companies. That is no joke. It really did happen. People go so fed up having to constantly e-mail others and ask them to resend documents, only saved using the "save-as" option so that the correct file format would be used...

Excel is a slightly different proposition, but most people at home or in the office don't need Word. Only access to it's file format.

 

[Clive At Five]

But here is one case where I hope Apple doesn't release a separate word-processing product to compete with Word. They should instead upgrade Pages capability to better compete with the more salient features of Word. Hopefully they can do so without losing the simplicity that their product shows now.

Hmm interesting... It would be less confusing to have fewer apps, but on the other hand, if iWork integration becomes as tight as iLife integration, the number of apps becomes more and more irrelevant. Think about it: As awkward as it would be, you *could* satisfy your desire to listen to music without even launching iTunes, because iPhoto, iMovie, and iDVD all have access to the iTunes Library. Sure you'd have to click and play one song at a time, and you wouldn't be able to continue working in that given program until you stopped listening to music, but the point is that it could be done.

Project that sort of integration onto an office suite. Pulling spreadsheets, presentations, page layouts, and word processing documents in and out through each individual application... sure you'd need a iWork Library, but think of how powerful a tool that would be. *licks chops*

Also, if I'm word processing with no intention of doing layout construction, I don't want to be bothered by those functions cluttering up my window. I would prefer a word app, a spreadsheet app, a presentation app, and then use Pages to pull everything together into a super document, full of all types of iWork "media."

That would be beautiful.

-Clive

 

[adrianblaine]

Sorry, but I disagree. Having grown up using office for school work etc, iWork doesn't cut the mustard. Don't get me wrong, pages is nice and keynote is definitely better than the current powerpoint, but as a package office is plain better.

What are you doing that Pages is unable to do? I've used for the last 2 years in school and I have never run into any problems. As far as I'm concerned, it is a perfect solution for a Student/Home user.

 

[Clive At Five]

...most people at home or in the office don't need Word. Only access to it's file format.

How very true indeed.

-Clive

 

[BWhaler]

That's because they know MS will stop making Office for Mac after this next version.

Nope...MS just signed a new multi-year deal with Apple to continue developing Office.

Sure, given how long it takes Microsoft to develop anything, the agreement may expire. But I think MS is more afraid of Apple porting a solid Office killer over the the PC then they let on. Sure, the big corporations won't care, but it will kill them in the SMB market. (And Apple did it to Adobe.)

 

[adrianblaine]

Sure, given how long it takes Microsoft to develop anything, the agreement may expire.

This is what I was counting on...

 

[J Radical]

What are you doing that Pages is unable to do? I've used for the last 2 years in school and I have never run into any problems. As far as I'm concerned, it is a perfect solution for a Student/Home user.

The most succinct answer is probably "file format standard" as has already been discussed. But more broadly the entire suite is a standard in itself- schools and businesses everywhere rely on office. Most non technical people would prefer Office to iWork because it's what they know and is more powerful to boot. The success of the Office UI cannot be denied.

(And I used a lot of Excel, not only for science but also for tables in other projects)


I'm basically saying that overall Office is more powerful and easier to use. I hope Apple makes iWork as good, but I don't think they can without revamping the interface entirely.

 

[Mac'Mo]

doesn't look very impressive =(

 

[~Shard~]

doesn't look very impressive =(

It's just one screenshot. I'll reserve judgment until I find out some actual details about the app and see a demo of it.

 

[BBC B 32k]

my mac came with a wordprocessor installed - Textedit - I always use it for quick plain text letters or notes. you get just what you see on the screen - just like the old days

by the way I do use Pages as I have a small buisness and it produces fine looking paperwork. For a spreadsheet I use Google spreadsheet online or Pages for small stuff. Heck I even file my returns online and do not even need an app as it is all done online.

For running a company MS office is just great, but for a small fish like me I have all I need.

Bring back View/Viewsheet/Viewdata

 

[xyian]

I agree with you wholeheartedly MacVault. I just used Access as a comparison because it comes with the Windows Office Suite. SQL or a relational database management system for the Mac would give me a lot more leeway to work at home more often.

Apple could use a more enterprise-level database app - maybe something based on SQL, but I HOPE APPLE NEVER MAKES ANYTHING LIKE MS ACCESS. Access is the most hell-ish app I have ever seen or had to work with.

 

[Roy]

It's complicated. There's some history here:

http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bob/clarisworks.php

There is some stuff I'm not allowed to talk about, and no doubt a lot I don't know as well. But one additional point is that there were rumors of a backroom deal between Steve and Bill to keep ClarisWorks/AppleWorks from becoming more competition for Office.

Bob Hearn
ClarisWorks coauthor

Bob,

Thanks for the information. A lot of behind-the-scenes information. Excellent program. I've used it more than any other software. Only wish IWorks could be as good.

Roy

 

[milo]

You're exactly right! I agree 100%! Apple seems to sacrifice features for simplicity and this makes many of their products seem like fisher price toys, such as Pages, iCal, Mail, etc, and probably the worst case of fisher-price-ness unfortunately is the OS X GUI.

Does office express have more features than iCal and Mail? Don't forget that the iLife apps are *free* when you buy a mac, so those should be compared to free apps bundled with windows, not Office.

And lets not forget that the Apple apps are brand new ones, created from scratch. More features are added with new versions. While Apple may be leaving some things out for the sake of simplicity, other features are missing because they haven't been added yet.


I think Word is overkill for many (if not most) home users, and a decent number of office users. There are a huge number of people using Word for file compatibility that never use a single feature beyond what Pages (or often even Text Edit) has.

 

[belovedmonster]

People are talking about the need for a replacement for Office in 5 years time, but I believe that in 5 years time everyone will be using none propriety files most of the time when it comes to sharing documents, and thus it wont matter if you have MS Office or OpenOffice or iWork or use online apps such as those offered by Google. 5 years from now .doc and the other MS files wont be able to hold the business world hostage anymore.

Sure, you might find that you want to use MS Office and it is no longer available for a Mac, but you wont be totally buggered if this is the case since you can still share files with perfect conversations, instead it just means you will have to use a different app which maybe isn't so good but gets the same results.