No, MobileMe was the first 5 steps there. This is the next logical addition, followed shortly by more.
You're computer already is nothing but a connectivity hub to the web, and game/tv/ device. How is that going to change because of this?
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iWork to Become a Web Application at Macworld?
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No, MobileMe was the first 5 steps there. This is the next logical addition, followed shortly by more.
You're computer already is nothing but a connectivity hub to the web, and game/tv/ device. How is that going to change because of this?
If that's all you think computers can do, you're really missing out on a lot.
Jobs is in favor a combination of desktop and cloud apps.
part of the app sits on the desktop for speed and part sits on the Cloud for accessibility anywhere and backup/storage purposes.
He's talks about this before. Basically you use the only Cloud where it makes sense in combination with a traditional desktop app.
part of the app sits on the desktop for speed and part sits on the Cloud for accessibility anywhere and backup/storage purposes.
He's talks about this before. Basically you use the only Cloud where it makes sense in combination with a traditional desktop app.
Do you hear that?
It's the sound of all your documents becoming unreadable when the web based application you were using to make them ceases to exist when the company hosting the app goes bankrupt.
I can boot up one of my beige Macs and still use my purchased copy of Microfrontier's ColorIt! to edit images.
It's the sound of all your documents becoming unreadable when the web based application you were using to make them ceases to exist when the company hosting the app goes bankrupt.
I can boot up one of my beige Macs and still use my purchased copy of Microfrontier's ColorIt! to edit images.
I'm sure that's not all he thinks they can do, but it's all many people use them for.
Part I of the real question is what "non-web-based" development efforts aren't being resourced while this stuff is?
Part II: or a fast internet connection.
Bandwidth speeds across 3G are one problem...
...and while bandwidth outside of urban centers is often another, this brings us to Part III: CHEAP bandwidth.
YMMV, but until symmetrical (up-down) 10bT comes down to $99/year, the percentage of people that can really afford "cloud" services is below critical mass for adoption...even for Apple's current 10% of the marketplace.
On the other hand, some of us see where this is classic Apple.
Currently, iWeb only "plays nice" if you buy your hosting service from Apple. Use any other ISP and you're stuck with "Publish to a Folder", which then means that any website change requires 100% of it to be re-uploaded.
Considering that I've personally had two credit cards replaced this year due to "cloud" based security lapses, I'd just assume remain in a cloud-free sky.
When the $99/year includes the AT&T service for the iPhone, perhaps I'll go for it. Until then, it doesn't offer this consumer adequate value.
and
If iwork becomes part of mobileme then i might just renew my subscription.
Why so much negative comments ?
Because some of us don't want yet another MONTHLY SERVICE FEE in our lives. The appeal of local software is the "Pay Once, use it forever" model, which generally is a better value for the consumer.
Thanks for the reminder, Reilly, but my point is that the addition of cloud-based is invariably going to have to include a way to extract more money out of the consumer, probably in terms of monthly or annual fees. Thanks, but no thanks.
It 'makes sense' if your personal income is $1M+, such that paying $250/month for an iPhone and fast broadband connection is an insignificant expense. The only hitch is that that's hardly "the home budget for the rest of us". I have better things to spend my money on..
-hh
And the concern I have is that Apple is heading downhill on the old "Value" paradigm.
Value is precisely why I've had Macs for ~20 years, but by the same token, its also why I don't have .me or an iPhone.
The irony is that Steve Jobs talked about the "own" vs "rent" value paradigm for consumers when it came to music & movies, but the more recent Apple stuff is going against that.
-hh
The same response. I don't own an iPhone either, although not because of Apple, but because of the cost of AT&T's calling plans. I do have .Mac/MobileMe -- which probably wasn't a great value proposition at first, but it's becoming one. If Apple adds more web-based services I think this is going to be a real plus for MobileMe, without subtracting from anything else.
I don't see the irony. The only subscription service Apple runs is MobileMe. What's the problem with them attempting to make it more attractive to customers? Even if it is still a product you, personally, don't like, nobody is compelling you to buy it.
...of which Apple gets a cut, IIRC.
Expect that MobileMe probably isn't going to remain at $99 for much longer.
Nothing, if their approach actually accomplishes that. However, the tea leaves underlying this rumor are that they're moving towards higher content and cost, rather than simply making it a better value by just lowering cost.
Plus, the software industry has been talking for years to try to go to a subscription-based model, which is a gravy train for them, but invariably a poor value for the consumer...its the old "Lease Your Automobile!...its Cheaper!" sales pitch, but the consumer ends up with nothing at the end of the rental term.
The irony is that Steve Jobs spoke out against this sort of business model when the topic was music and movies ...
We'll have to wait and see how this pans out with 'web-enabled' iWork Apps ... and I personally expect that the subscription fee in iWork's future will be implimented in the same fashion as it already is in iWeb: CRIPPLEWARE'D features that happen to only work with MobileMe even though there's absolutely no technical reason for them to be that way..
That's true, but the Catch-22 is that if I don't speak up to articulate why I'm not buying, then Apple doesn't know why I'm not buying.
And thus, Apple can easily go the wrong direction for this customer's desires. For example, adding more stuff-that-I'm-not-going-to-use onto MobileMe does technically improve its "VALUE", but unfortunately, that's not the type of "VALUE" that this consumer wants.
For example, if I were to use Apple to 'synch' (remote site backup, plus web access) my iPhoto library, at their storage rates, I'd be looking at bumping up from $300/year to $350/year. At that rate, I can buy a domain & ISP service elsewhere AND buy a 1.5TB 3.5" Seagate SATA hard drive AND buy an MS-OFFICE uprade ... every year.
For what MobileMe offers today, its only worth ~$25/year as far as I'm concerned. As such, if they're going to hold their price at $99/year, they're going to have to add a heck of a lot more than just cloudy iWork.
-hh
This are all wild guesses, and mainly cynical wild guesses at that. Sorry, but I don't see the value in any of this speculation. Further I will leave it to Apple to determine why people do or do not buy their products. They seem to be pretty good at it. Once again, the fundamental rule applies: if you don't like it, don't buy it. This is not a "Catch 22" by any means.
google docs is awesome and me.com is awesome. combine the two and maybe it'll be really awesome
I can read my email, look at and edit my calender, review and edit my contacts without being online. I can even write new email sat on a train far from 3G and WiFi. I need a 10 second WiFi hookup to perhaps get and send new email. But constant connectivity is not a requirement. Making it one would be a huge, massive mistake.
Doug
The facts are that we do know Apple's accounting method for the iPhone is based on ongoing revenue from each unit.
The facts are that MobileMe does currently cost $99/year.
The facts are that my iPhoto library is approaching 100GB, which at MobileMe's rates of $99 for the first 20GB, then ~$50 per 20GB thereafter, which means that buying 99GB from Apple costs $300/year and at 101GB, the price jumps to $350/year.
Specifically, the Library was at 96.28 GB this morning, before starting to import another 5.91 GB in, which just leaves the 4.96 GB I'm just starting to work on.
The facts are that ISPs such as 1&1, FatCow, etc charge roughly $80/year for 300GB (or more) worth of storage. Optionally add a domain for $20; we're at $100/year.
The facts are that a 1TB SATA drive is around $109 retail (NewEgg).
The facts are that MS-Office 2008 for Mac Home & Student Edition is $110, and Windows Home/Office 2007 is $80.
The sum of the three above is in the $300-$350/year range.
The facts are that iWeb has its functionality limited (the Wiki definition of "crippleware") through its differentiation to not offer its 'synch' function to any hosting service other than MobileMe.
I'm not going to speculate why you weren't interested in checking verifiable facts and attempted to do a dismissive hand-wave instead.
My only "wild guess" was that the current subscription prices are going to increase.
And there are those Apple customers who will say that they went up once before, after Apple supposedly promised to not raise them.
-hh
Agreed.
What people apparently don't realize is that I don't need my updated calendar or updated contact list back on my home PC until I return to my home PC.
At that point, since I'm going to want to plug in my local "Newton" to recharge its battery anyway, the relative level of inconvenience of having the software then synchronize the two platforms is virtually zero and utterly transparent.
If the $99/year included an Apple Servant to drop by my desk and plug the device in ... maybe give me a backrub while they're at it ... then it clearly would be worth the cost.
But to "save" me from a data transfer when I have to plug in anyway for power is a false economy.
-hh
You cite this again and again and again and again and again. You fail to realise that this is not a black and white concept. Just because someone isn't totally 100% enamoured with something Apple produced, you think they should shut up and go away. This would be a cold, dark, empty forum if we all followed those rules.
I want a small laptop ( Macbook like ) - but I want a screen that isn't of poor quality, I want a firewire socket, and I don't want to spend £90 on bloody adaptors to plug it into an external monitor or two. I so nearly want a Macbook, but there are just a few problems with it.
Your answer "Don't buy it". That doesn't get me anywhere.
My answer - comment on its shortcomings in a hope that Apple will hear the collective voices of those unhappy with some its design and product decisions and will reverse or alter some of them in the future.
Agreed. Keep complaining, in a constructive manner. Apple listens. Apple reads these forums and others to get feedback from users. Apple has a great feedback web site. They take feedback seriously and keep improving. That's part of what makes Apple so great.
I was at Circuit City the other week looking at Windoze machines (ByteMe) and was very impressed by several tiny notebook computers that had full very useable keyboards. The screens were kind of small - I much prefer my 15" PowerBook. However, I can readily see someone using those machines as their road computer. They are not quite pocketable but close, dang close. Of course, all of them were fundamentally flawed - they ran Windows Vista, not MacOSX.
When I'm out making deliveries I don't want to haul out my PowerBook. Currently I use my iPod Touch* with the Spreadsheet app to do order, look up files (PDF and Text), address book, etc. The iPod Touch/iPhone screen is a bit on the small side and I can only type 35 wpm on the screen keyboard but it works. If Apple brings out a 5"x7" iPhone then that is going to be a killer machine. I would want a bluetooth ear bud for the phone and a bluetooth keyboard to be able to optionally use with it. The other critical thing is to have the machine integrate it's storage/home directory with my desktop machine (PowerBook in my case).
Back to web applications, no thank you.
Cheers
-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org
*We don't have iPhones here in Vermont, not officially.
I was at Circuit City the other week looking at Windoze machines (ByteMe) and was very impressed by several tiny notebook computers that had full very useable keyboards. The screens were kind of small - I much prefer my 15" PowerBook. However, I can readily see someone using those machines as their road computer. They are not quite pocketable but close, dang close. Of course, all of them were fundamentally flawed - they ran Windows Vista, not MacOSX.
When I'm out making deliveries I don't want to haul out my PowerBook. Currently I use my iPod Touch* with the Spreadsheet app to do order, look up files (PDF and Text), address book, etc. The iPod Touch/iPhone screen is a bit on the small side and I can only type 35 wpm on the screen keyboard but it works. If Apple brings out a 5"x7" iPhone then that is going to be a killer machine. I would want a bluetooth ear bud for the phone and a bluetooth keyboard to be able to optionally use with it. The other critical thing is to have the machine integrate it's storage/home directory with my desktop machine (PowerBook in my case).
Back to web applications, no thank you.
Cheers
-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org
*We don't have iPhones here in Vermont, not officially.
You are missing the point. The current discussion is about iWork, and the possibilities of Apple adding web-based access to these applications. At least a few of us see the potential in this to extend the value of both iWork and Apple's portable devices, and how it might also imply new hardware products, which also have been long-rumored. Others such are yourself are speculating, with no basis in fact, that this portends something awful. Your speculations are based on fears. They aren't even supported by the current rumors, nor are they supported by any logic that I can detect.
It gets you everywhere you actually need to go. I don't own every product Apple makes if only because not every Apple product meets my definition of a value proposition. Others perhaps, but not me. I think it's ridiculous for anyone to argue, in effect, that Apple must address their personal needs with every product they release, or they're doing something either stupid or nefarious or both. This logic seems to be the basis for virtually every gripe post on MR these days, and we see literally thousand of them in any given week. Buy the products you like and don't buy the products you don't like. This is the only "signal" you need to send to any company about whether you appreciate what they are doing. But keep in mind they are not in the business of serving your preferences exclusively.
I think it's ridiculous for you to assume that whatever Apple makes is whatever everybody wants.
It's also ridiculous for you to assume that Apple never does anything stupid or nefarious - because from any perspective other than that of a blinkered Apple fanatic - they have, many times. But because if you want an OSX machine - you have to put up with the hardware, there's nothing you can do about it but complain in a hope they will see sense.
There are perhaps 7 things I like about the MB. There are 3 I don't. Not buying one, shutting up and going away has two problems.
1) I don't get a new OSX laptop
2) Apple don't find out why I don't have one.
Your attitude is hideously over simplified and unconstructive.
Doug
Well, they got me backed into a corner. Now, I must do everything iWorks and iMovie on a website...
I don't agree with you either
The unique thing about Apple as a computer vendor is that for OSX stuff, they're the only game in town.
My investment in OSX is bigger than my investment in any one piece of Apple hardware. I've bought a lot of software over the years - which only runs on the Mac, and I want to have all my computing needs addressed by Apple, as that's the only way I can use my software investment.
If Dell don't create a certain type of computer, that's fine - PC buyers can go to HP or Sony or whatever.
As a Mac owner / investor in OSX software, I'm currently SOL if I want a netbook, or a small powerful desktop without a nasty glossy screen etc. etc.
It's NOT just a case of 'don't buy it if you don't like it' - there's more of a monopoly situation in play here because of the OSX platform.
Actually, what I missed was your apology, since I've now shown that all but one of my "wild guesses" were clear, verifiable facts.
"...the potential ...to extend the value..."?
Gosh, how is that statement not speculation?
First, perhaps you could be so kind as to explain how you're able to speculate an improvement in iWork's value? No, not an increase in its features, but its value.
Second, we're both old enough to know how things operate in the real world, namely around what business case says. Does adding features to iWork without raising any consumer costs associated anywhere ... to recoup that investment cost ... make sense from a business case perspective?
Sure, there are some "maybes", such as if they wanted it to be a strategic 'loss leader'. But their approach there has been to bundle it with each CPU hardware sale (iLife), or .mac subscription (Retrospect), or even go make it completely free (iTunes).
Your suggestion is akin to rejecting continuous data ("Why did X buy/not buy Product Y") in preference to discrete (sale=Yes/No), because its much easier to analyze a binary "Yes/No" numbers even though the latter has a far inferior resolution at any sample size. Since typically 95%-98% of all consumers will never bother to tell the suppliers their underlying motivations & priorities, the few that do are surprisingly valuable.
That's why Apple reads these forums, as well as a lot of other customer research instead of just looking at last week's sales figures without a broader holistic context.
-hh
Better connected and more influential people than us have been over this ground already:
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2008/pulpit_20080613_005065.html
Robert X. Cringely: JUNE 13, 2008
MeMobile, You Kaput: Apple's plan to take over the world
"Given the code Apple already has for its iWork applications, how much more effort would it take to webify those apps, too? Not much, I'd say. A year from now I guarantee you that MobileMe will offer a complete suite of web-based Office applications.
Now let's get back to that Microsoft-killing part."
"That market is willing to pay something for elegance or convenience, but better still for elegance AND convenience. That's how Apple could charge $99 per year for .Mac and for the successor to .Mac, MobileMe. There is at least $60 in profit for Apple hiding inside that $99 price."
"This will become a juggernaut driven not by the iPhone, not by the Mac, not by Apple's media distribution business, but equally by ALL THREE businesses."
"Steve Jobs is brilliant and patient. He has a plan and is executing on it to perfection. Bill Gates couldn't pick a better time to retire and let someone else take the fall."
That is precisely the opposite of what I have argued. If you have any interest in discussing this with me, please do me the favor of actually reading what I write. Thank you.