Japan Law Will Require Apple to Allow Non-WebKit Browsers on iPhone

[thiscatisfat]

I don't even know what to say to that.

There's a company that dumps unfiltered toxins from its factory into the river, poisoning everyone in Los Angeles, and then you come along and say, “That's business. A company don't need to care for everything."

And don't tell me it's different.

Just because you don't want to take the dangers of a software monopoly seriously – because the monopoly here is run by Apple rather than Microsoft – doesn't make it any less dangerous.

How can you compare toxins poisoning people to freaking government forcing Apple into things like USB-C on iPhones or third party AppStores? You think that’s an okay comparison to make? Right, it’s the same thing, so I won’t tell you it’s different. Gotcha bud.

 

[thiscatisfat]

iOS and Android have so much market power, that choosing not to publish on these platforms can cost a company its business. While Apple does not 'force' them Apple is well aware many developers have no other option.

Their restrictive platform requirements, then, prohibit businesses like Mozilla and Alphabet to compete with browser engines. This is obviously a conflict of interest.

Why don’t you make your own platform then? What’s stopping you? Make your own phone or line of products, develop OS and other software for it, make sure it’s better than Apple’s iOS or Google’s Android, and we will develop apps for your platform? Oh, you can’t? Well then maybe be happy that someone else did the hard work for you and you just need to you know, follow the rules of the platform and be happy with the dime you make?

 

[ProbablyDylan]

To ask your question back at you with a new spin, should a user be allowed to install a buggy, vulnerable browser that could compromise their device, data, or other apps on the system?

Yes, with proper disclosure and safeguards like every other software category.

Or do you think platform owners have a responsibility to safeguard the broader ecosystem, especially on devices like phones where sandboxing, privacy controls, and energy efficiency are tightly integrated with the OS?

Users accept security risks daily through choices Apple already permits: installing apps from unknown developers, using third-party keyboards with "full access," and browsing websites with all manner of tracking scripts and fingerprinting. If Apple trusts users to make informed decisions about something as fundamental and sensitive as the keyboard, why not the browser?

I'll fall back to my usual "government intervention should require a very high bar." Not simply the fact that users might want something different, but that the current restrictions demonstrably harm competition or consumers in a way that outweighs the security and integration benefits. I don't think the government has come close to meeting that bar here.

I find it interesting that you oppose elected officials regulating businesses but fully defend corporate executives unilaterally dictating what consumers can install and use on devices they purchased with their hard-earned money. Democratic lawmaking in regard to business practices is overreach, but corporate control of consumer choice is A-OK?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

It was the EU that made the USB-C change happen for the iPhone starting with the 15, so perhaps this happening in Japan will eventually make it happen here

The EU’s deadline was for the end of 2024. Apple’s change occurred in 2023, 10 years to the month after they said, in 2013, that lightning would be the connector for the next decade. The mandate passed in 2022 and, while some may think that Apple could pull off such a change in a year, the fact is that any iPhone has several years of both hardware and software development prior to it’s eventual release. Apple was aiming for 2023 well before the EU “mandated” what was going to happen anyway, a year prior to the mandate.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

webkit is an intentionally built time bomb integrated into iOS.
The first app to start misbehaving on an older iPhone is always (the worlds worst browser) Safari.
And Apple won't update it anymore on older devices - so you've got to buckle up and buy a new iPhone because the other iOS browsers experience the same exact problems - cuz they're using webkit too.

I would expect that anyone that has had this experience would, wisely, avoid Apple products in the future to the point where Apple’s marketshare shrinks and they’re no longer viable as a company.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Why don’t you make your own platform then? What’s stopping you? Make your own phone or line of products, develop OS and other software for it, make sure it’s better than Apple’s iOS or Google’s Android, and we will develop apps for your platform? Oh, you can’t? Well then maybe be happy that someone else did the hard work for you and you just need to you know, follow the rules of the platform and be happy with the dime you make?

Right?

iOS and Android have too much market power.

So, EU, Japan, what’s the solution to them having too much market power, producing competitors that would take away their market power?

No, just giving up and assuming they’ll have market power forever. The competition has to be on the thing we can do half-assed and be successful with (software stores) not the thing we’d actually have to be good at (platform creation).

You DO realize that, now that you’ve made this move, that means that no one else will try to become a market leader because they see what happens to the market leader? You’ve essentially locked yourselves in to Google and Apple by default.

Well, while we don’t like the duopoly, but, in fact, we really like the duopoly and aim to strengthen it.

 

[thiscatisfat]

Right?

iOS and Android have too much market power.

So, EU, Japan, what’s the solution to them having too much market power, producing competitors that would take away their market power?

No, just giving up and assuming they’ll have market power forever. The competition has to be on the thing we can do half-assed and be successful with (software stores) not the thing we’d actually have to be good at (platform creation).

You DO realize that, now that you’ve made this move, that means that no one else will try to become a market leader because they see what happens to the market leader? You’ve essentially locked yourselves in to Google and Apple by default.

Well, while we don’t like the duopoly, but, in fact, we really like the duopoly and aim to strengthen it.

Like how can a government force a product maker into using USB-C?! How can they force them to make their tech open source? Okay, they will force Apple into letting others use their stuff that tooks years and money and hard work to develop, for free, just so they can….compete? Compete how? How is that competition if the “competitor” didn’t make it themselves? What if Apple doesn’t want to compete with competition ON THEIR OWN PLATFORM, how are they not entitled to just say no? Governments should keep their noses out of this.

In the last 15 years, nobody came even close to iOS. It’s not because Apple is doing some sort of anti competive voodoo, they are just better and are making a better product. Just like with the iPod, iPod was so good nobody came even close to it and it’s still popular today. Losers will always whine when they see winners win, instead of improving themselves they try to throw sticks under winners feet. It’s so lame. I would love to stop using iPhones because frankly new iPhones are too big for me, but there’s literally nothing else I can use instead. No better alternative. If someone makes a better alternative, people will buy it and if it’s better than iPhone, it will outsell Apple. I honestly can’t wait for the next big thing, but it’s not coming because people rather whine and lobby governments than actually produce something better.

 

[thiscatisfat]

I would expect that anyone that has had this experience would, wisely, avoid Apple products in the future to the point where Apple’s marketshare shrinks and they’re no longer viable as a company.

There we go. That’s how it should be done, natural selection. True competition, new companies in the field working hard to outsell Apple. I’m all up for it. If someone comes up with a better alternative to the iPhone and iOS, I’ll be one of the first ones to buy it. I’m frankly bored of Apple and iOS and can’t wait for something new and revolutionary.

 

[thiscatisfat]

I find it interesting that you oppose elected officials regulating businesses but fully defend corporate executives unilaterally dictating what consumers can install and use on devices they purchased with their hard-earned money. Democratic lawmaking in regard to business practices is overreach, but corporate control of consumer choice is A-OK?

I find it odd that you decided to spend your money on an iPhone while you were fully aware of what it can and can’t do and that the OS you got licensed on the hardware is restrictive in that sense AND YET you still went ahead and bought it. What are you even on about pal.

 

[surferfb]

I find it interesting that you oppose elected officials regulating businesses but fully defend corporate executives unilaterally dictating what consumers can install and use on devices they purchased with their hard-earned money. Democratic lawmaking in regard to business practices is overreach, but corporate control of consumer choice is A-OK?

Because alternatives exist that do what you want. Every single product is a compromise. I don't think you're entitled to have your cake and eat it too; if Apple doesn't want to offer you the product you want, the correct response is to buy an Android device, not get the power of government to force a private actor to act in a way they don't want to.

The DMA took away the option for a closed ecosystem for everyone in Europe who wanted one even though an open ecosystem already existed. Same deal here. Many consumers prefer the safety and security of what Apple offers. Opening that up increases risk, and I think Apple is better positioned to make that determination for its customers than the government is. I can always choose to buy a different product, I can't easily choose to move countries, or campaign to get a misguided law overturned.

It's also a slippery slope. First the government demands you use a certain port, or allow certain software, next thing you know they're demanding encryption backdoors. Best to leave hardware and software engineering to the experts and let the free market work.

 

[thiscatisfat]

It's also a slippery slope. First the government demands you use a certain port, or allow certain software, next thing you know they're demanding encryption backdoors. Best to leave hardware and software engineering to the experts and let the free market work.

You’re restoring my faith in humanity. It’s exactly that. UK did it the other way around, first they wanted backdoors 😄 They just went straight to the point 😄

 

[Unregistered 4U]

You’re restoring my faith in humanity. It’s exactly that. UK did it the other way around, first they wanted backdoors 😄 They just went straight to the point 😄

And, again, IF THEY CREATED THEIR OWN DEVICE, it could have all the back doors they’d ever want PLUS be bringing in millions from the UKapp Store. If they want to be like China, then BE like China, don’t put your country in a position to have to BEG to put back doors in the system.

 

[ToothBlueth]

Why don’t you make your own platform then? What’s stopping you? Make your own phone or line of products, develop OS and other software for it, make sure it’s better than Apple’s iOS or Google’s Android, and we will develop apps for your platform? Oh, you can’t? Well then maybe be happy that someone else did the hard work for you and you just need to you know, follow the rules of the platform and be happy with the dime you make?

Oh yes, thank the lord Apple (and Alphabet) is there to abuse their power for the common good their own good. Let's protect them by saying others should just make their own products, while ignoring the whole point that there is next to none opportunity for competitors to operate.

It is sad to see people pretending Apple is a religion, losing all objectivity to the greedy hands of the filthy rich.

 

[thiscatisfat]

Oh yes, thank the lord Apple (and Alphabet) is there to abuse their power for the common good their own good. Let's protect them by saying others should just make their own products, while ignoring the whole point that there is next to none opportunity for competitors to operate.

It is sad to see people pretending Apple is a religion, losing all objectivity to the greedy hands of the filthy rich.

LOL of course there is opportunity to competitors to operate ONCE THEY MAKE A BETTER PRODUCT. I’m not protecting THEM, I’m encouraging YOU to make a better product pal!

Nobody here or at least not me did pretend Apple is a religion or lose objectivity, we’re keeping it very much real. Apple is what it is, do you have an alternative? No? So go back to the drawing board and stop wasting time moaning like a loser about the winner.

Winners use their abilities to their advantage, why shouldn’t they? That’s why they win in the first place, they must be good at something? Seriously stop.

 

[JosephAW]

This will come in handy in six or seven years when there’s no more software updates and Safari can’t access websites but a third-party web browser will extending the life of $1000 device.

 

[thiscatisfat]

Oh yes, thank the lord Apple (and Alphabet) is there to abuse their power for the common good their own good. Let's protect them by saying others should just make their own products, while ignoring the whole point that there is next to none opportunity for competitors to operate.

It is sad to see people pretending Apple is a religion, losing all objectivity to the greedy hands of the filthy rich.

Remind me how did Apple get where they are? How did it all start? Who was the big fish at the time?

 

[jecowa]

Iirc, Chromium has a high 70s% market share and Safari on iOS is the only thing keeping it from being in the high 90s.

 

[MysteriousStain]

I’m dreaming of proper Firefox with extensions on my phone…

 

[Unregistered 4U]

This will come in handy in six or seven years when there’s no more software updates and Safari can’t access websites but a third-party web browser will extending the life of $1000 device.

Why not simply buy a $1000 device that already supports third-party browsers?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Iirc, Chromium has a high 70s% market share and Safari on iOS is the only thing keeping it from being in the high 90s.

People are upset that Alphabet doesn’t control the browsing engines of the entire internet.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Oh yes, thank the lord Apple (and Alphabet) is there to abuse their power for the common good their own good. Let's protect them by saying others should just make their own products, while ignoring the whole point that there is next to none opportunity for competitors to operate.

Listening to people talking about it, there seems to be a HUGE number of people that want something in between Android and iOS. ONE of these countries could foster the company that produces that in-between and yield worldwide success for that company AND that country/region as a result. In the EU, Apple’s got barely any marketshare, releasing the EuroPhone could have developers scrambling to produce apps for the phone that’s designed from an EU perspective and grab half of Apple’s marketshare overnight. Throw in government subsidies to make a less expensive version and anyone wanting a cheap phone would also be buying an EuroPhone.

Market opportunities are only obvious AFTER someone figures out the opportunity. It’s sad that no one wants to.

 

[dynamojoe]

I'd love to have a native Firefox implementation along with uBlock Origin on my iPad.

 

[BaldiMac]

I have no problem with requiring Apple to allow browsers to use their own engines.

However, I don't want non-browsers to be able to embed their own engines. Especially if they use web tech to replace native iOS UI with crappy cross-platform web interfaces.

 

[mentaluproar]

Yeah but putting laws in place to directly target a company to force them put stuff on their platform they never wanted to do? Do you get me or not?

That’s not what this does at all. It says they must permit other engines. It doesn’t say they have to create, maintain, support, or promote said engines.

 

[thiscatisfat]

That’s not what this does at all. It says they must permit other engines. It doesn’t say they have to create, maintain, support, or promote said engines.

Of course that’s what this is about. Isn’t it at all weird that there’s a law that forces Apple to permit other engines? Like…not weird at all? From all the laws they can make?

No. Apple shouldn’t be forced to permit other engines if they don’t want to. And they don’t want to for a good reason.