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Good, what's the bloody point in even running difference browsers currently on iOS when they are all forced to use the same engine. At least if I have a compatibility issue with a site, I would have the ability to use a different browser with a different engine.
I still find use for Firefox's skin of webkit on my iPad, because it gives me access to my Firefox keychain and bookmarks, shared with my better-featured Windows and Linux and Android devices. Definitely would prefer access to its native engine so I could run full uBlock Origin, which even Android's Firefox can already do.
 
A government body is telling Apple how to run their business. Absolutely ridiculous.

Apple shouldn't be forced into anything on their platform by anyone except for Apple. It's their software, their business what they do with it. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it.

Edit: some random anon said the issue at hand is the same as with a company releasing toxins into the river and poisoning everyone and how a government should do nothing about it, so I have to edit the comment to make it more obvious
then we get sued for "illegal boycotts" 😉
 
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This is when folks reply with: "But the companies will give customers instructions on how to install things third party and do risky scary stuff!"

A piece of FUD that has not been true on Android, so I'm not sure why it gets rolled out like some big "gotcha".

It’s not FUD. Here is an example from earlier this week!


Just because you wouldn’t be tricked doesn’t mean most users are as sophisticated as you. Apple absolutely has a justification to protect its users.
 
In 2025, the only people who care about browsers are only incels and the mentally ill. Browsers are not a market, it’s a basic system function today for anything internet connected, and it’s none of the government’s business which (if any) browser is used. If you don’t like it, go buy (for $0, because all browsers are worthless) one of the billion other choices littered with garbage “free” browsers
 
If they were truly legitimate rather than eco-system-poly schemes, Apple would be blocking alternative browser engines on the Mac. Why is the user experience of someone who bought a $1499 MacBookPro less deserving of security protection than that of someone who bought a $999 iPhone?
The Mac is inherently less secure than iOS primarily due to the large number of attack vectors that exist there that don’t exist on iOS. And, folks using macOS don’t care that it’s less secure as it does what they need it to do in a way they’re used to it doing those things. As a result, adding even one of those attack vectors to iOS would make iOS less secure as a result.

So, yes, Apple would rather NOT lower the security of iOS to the macOS level, though there are a few that would like nothing more than for iOS to be less secure.
 
People should internalize a feeling of being stuck instead of… taking steps to become unstuck?

“As this specific line of complaining gets my name copied and pasted all over the internet (thanks for the free advertising for me, folks), you can rest assured that I’m not going to stop buying Apple products!”
 
Let's say that a company, let's take a private racetrack for example, has a questionable safety record. Should the government step in and say that the CEO implement a minimum set of standards to protect people or is that the state telling them how to run their business?
Let’s say, instead that a private racetrack has made a decision to not sell popcorn. But, there’s a lot of people that WISH they sold popcorn. Should the government step in and say the CEO should buy a required amount of popcorn making ingredients and the equipment needed to make and package popcorn AND train their staff on how to operate the popcorn machines even though the company would rather not sell popcorn? Because, that IS the state telling them how to run their business.
 
No no, that's not my point. I swear. My problem is with the government forcing Apple into doing this. It could be any other company for that matter, I would still be against it. If you want third party junk on your phone, go with Android.
There’s a rational simplicity inherent in that that many refuse to see. The fact that you’d be able to write a sentence about your thoughts on situation and freely substitute in ANY company name connects with that simplicity.
 
Yes they are, but what's preventing someone from just making a better product that will outcompete them? They got to their positions thanks to their own hard work I'd say, no? IBM was the big fish, Apple started in a garage and look at them now. Did Apple create a better product than IBM? Yes, did that make Apple more successful than IBM? Yes. Just because a business has a dominant position doesn't mean a nobody with a product that's just better can't outcompete them.

Nobody says they should shut something down. Provide an alternative, a BETTER alternative with all sorts of junk support, and if people want it, people will buy it and won't buy Apple. It's that simple.
Hardware is and has always been a risk. With three billion iOS devices in the world, those that could take on Apple and win… instead of seeing a market to conquer, they’re seeing “easy money” dollar signs in their eyes by using hardware, tools and API’s (created by Apple) to dramatically reduce their risk exposure. It’s not that no one can take on Apple or Alphabet, it’s that they just don’t want to take on the level of risk required to make the next iPhone or Android.

Plus, with the way things are going, if they were successful, that would put a target on THEIR backs increasing the risk further. Who would want to intentionally work hard to put their company in those crosshairs? Do people want Android and iOS to be the only mobile options? Because this is precisely how you end up with Android and iOS as the only mobile options.
 
This is when folks reply with: "But the companies will give customers instructions on how to install things third party and do risky scary stuff!"

A piece of FUD that has not been true on Android, so I'm not sure why it gets rolled out like some big "gotcha".
Gotcha.
 
In 2025, the only people who care about browsers are only incels and the mentally ill. Browsers are not a market, it’s a basic system function today for anything internet connected, and it’s none of the government’s business which (if any) browser is used. If you don’t like it, go buy (for $0, because all browsers are worthless) one of the billion other choices littered with garbage “free” browsers
That is absolute nonsense. The browser is the most important software on any system. Half of the apps used are browsers disguised. Obviously you have no experience with cloud based enterprise applications.
 
The were clearly already moving to USB-C. All the EU did was ensure we never get a better port.
Exactly. We would have been stuck with microUSB if Apple and the other tech companies hadn’t decided well before the EU realized USB-C was a thing, to CREATE USB-C.

So, USB-C, no.
RCS, no.
Alternate app stores, yes, that one the EU can take credit for… how many millions of apps are available via the alternate app stores, though? One could say that the one with the least effect is the one pushed by the EU.
 
Exactly. We would have been stuck with microUSB if Apple and the other tech companies hadn’t decided well before the EU realized USB-C was a thing, to CREATE USB-C.
Exactly. In fact, in their infinite wisdom, the EU tried to mandate Micro-USB. Which shows exactly why regulators shouldn’t be making these sorts of decisions. They’re way out of their depth. Leave it to the companies to design their products and software, not bureaucrats.

But the EU is going to EU; if the free market isn’t making the same decision the EU bureaucrats would, the bureaucrats are going to jump in and interfere because they think they know better than companies and their customers. So now we’re stuck with USB-C for all eternity because no one has any incentive to spend the tens of millions of dollars to build and popularize a better port if it can’t be used in the EU. I guess we can be thankful it’s USB-C not Micro USB, but it doesn’t make mandating the port any better of an idea.
 
Don't we have to wait a little longer to know we "never got a better port"? 🙂

Fair point. But I think we can agree that the EU has made it significantly harder for one to be developed and popularized. I suspect Apple is the only one who’d do it (but maybe one of the Chinese companies would).

Wonder how EU would react to an iPhone model that wasn’t released in the EU? Although I suppose Apple would be more likely to release a phone without a port at all.
 
Fair point. But I think we can agree that the EU has made it significantly harder for one to be developed and popularized. I suspect Apple is the only one who’d do it (but maybe one of the Chinese companies would).

Wonder how EU would react to an iPhone model that wasn’t released in the EU? Although I suppose Apple would be more likely to release a phone without a port at all.
The shape of the USB-C port is sufficiently small and they can still innovate on that form factor. In fact there has been lots of innovation in that form factor as it supports multiple standards. Yes, the Lightning form factor was also nice, but there was no innovation for that form factor after it was released. I personally do not believe wireless charging standards will replace wired anytime soon, namely because it is wasteful.
 
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The were clearly already moving to USB-C. All the EU did was ensure we never get a better port.
No they weren't "clearly" already moving to USB-C. Every other device manufacturer in the world had been on USB-C for a half-decade and Apple were still shipping new devices with Lightning at the time this legislation came into effect. There is nothing clear about this - Apple had to be dragged kicking and screaming.

Fair point. But I think we can agree that the EU has made it significantly harder for one to be developed and popularized.
Not sure why you think we can agree on that. The EU was quite clear that if and when a better standard comes along that the legislation would be updated to reflect that and the fact that they pivoted the legislation from Micro-USB to USB-C only proves that they are able to do so quite easily. There is no additional barrier to the development of any new open standard connector that didn't exist before.

The only thing that the EU made significantly harder is market abuse by entrenched market leaders who have previously been known to use thier market position to develop proprietary non-standard connections in order to further lock their customers into their device ecosystem. That is the intended purpose of the legislation.

I suspect Apple is the only one who’d do it (but maybe one of the Chinese companies would).
Not sure why you would suspect that. Apple has invented exactly one non-proprietary connection standard in their entire lifetime, and that was over 30 years ago. And even then, a significant amount of the work was done by another company (Sony). If another standard comes along, it'll be developed by a consortium of companies just like most of the current modern standards were.
 
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The only thing that the EU made significantly harder is market abuse by entrenched market leaders who have previously been known to use thier market position to develop proprietary non-standard connections in order to further lock their customers into their device ecosystem. That is the intended purpose of the legislation.

[…]
The EU made iOS worse for everybody from a company that has a minority market position. Said companies are allowed to build their own connectors. This legislation will come back to bite the EU. As far as device lock that’s a meme at this point. The intended purpose of the dma is to punish apple for its success.
 
No they weren't "clearly" already moving to USB-C. Every other device manufacturer in the world had been on USB-C for a half-decade and Apple were still shipping new devices with Lightning at the time this legislation came into effect. There is nothing clear about this - Apple had to be dragged kicking and screaming.


Not sure why you think we can agree on that. The EU was quite clear that if and when a better standard comes along that the legislation would be updated to reflect that and the fact that they pivoted the legislation from Micro-USB to USB-C only proves that they are able to do so quite easily. There is no additional barrier to the development of any new open standard connector that didn't exist before.

The only thing that the EU made significantly harder is market abuse by entrenched market leaders who have previously been known to use thier market position to develop proprietary non-standard connections in order to further lock their customers into their device ecosystem. That is the intended purpose of the legislation.


Not sure why you would suspect that. Apple has invented exactly one non-proprietary connection standard in their entire lifetime, and that was over 30 years ago. And even then, a significant amount of the work was done by another company (Sony). If another standard comes along, it'll be developed by a consortium of companies just like most of the current modern standards were.

Apple’s 2016 MacBook Pro was one of the first big consumer products to push Thunderbolt over USB-C in a mainstream way, Apple was ready to push it with the iPhone shortly after that. Lightning was planned to be used for a decade from 2013 onwards. Apple had an iPhone with USB-C ready before you even heard of EU planning to enforce USB-C.
 
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No they weren't "clearly" already moving to USB-C. Every other device manufacturer in the world had been on USB-C for a half-decade and Apple were still shipping new devices with Lightning at the time this legislation came into effect. There is nothing clear about this - Apple had to be dragged kicking and screaming.
Apple promised that Lightening would be the port for the next 10 years, and got raked over the coals by customers who thought moving from 30-PIN to Lightening was a money grab. That was a transition to a significantly better port, Lightening to USb-C was a sideways move for most customers.

They practically invented USB-C. They had already transferred Mac and iPad, the were just taking a bit longer with their most important product line than tech nerds wanted. Makes sense after what happened last time.
Not sure why you think we can agree on that. The EU was quite clear that if and when a better standard comes along that the legislation would be updated to reflect that and the fact that they pivoted the legislation from Micro-USB to USB-C only proves that they are able to do so quite easily. There is no additional barrier to the development of any new open standard connector that didn't exist before.
But another one won’t come along because there’s no ROI in developing one. Companies don’t just drop significant resources into a new port if they can’t use it in the EU.

If an amazing new port was introduced tomorrow? It would take 4-8 YEARS before the EU could update the standard.

To break it down for you:
  1. EU assumes better port isn’t likely soon, so standardizing on USB-C is safe.
  2. The law makes it harder (slower, costlier) for a better port to be introduced in the EU.
  3. Because the EU is a huge market, most manufacturers won’t design a new port at all unless it’s globally adopted, which won’t happen precisely because of the EU rule.
  4. Result; the assumption (“no better port soon”) becomes true because of the policy, not because of technical limits.
We already said this with the ill-fated attempt to Micro-USB which had the effect of slowing the transition to USB-C on the Android side.

At the time, regulators said micro-USB was good enough and innovation in charging plugs was unlikely to matter much soon (sound familiar? Also note it was dead wrong). But the voluntary standard effectively slowed the rollout of USB-C in smartphones in Europe because manufacturers didn’t want to produce different hardware for the EU vs. other regions.

The only thing that the EU made significantly harder is market abuse by entrenched market leaders who have previously been known to use thier market position to develop proprietary non-standard connections in order to further lock their customers into their device ecosystem. That is the intended purpose of the legislation.
That’s what the tell people, but it won’t do that at all. It’s making everyone’s products worse because that’s what design by bureaucracy does.

Not sure why you would suspect that. Apple has invented exactly one non-proprietary connection standard in their entire lifetime, and that was over 30 years ago. And even then, a significant amount of the work was done by another company (Sony). If another standard comes along, it'll be developed by a consortium of companies just like most of the current modern standards were.
It’s clear you really dislike Apple’s business model. Perhaps you should choose products that better align with your values than cheer on government in an attempt to regulate innovation away because their companies can’t compete by making my preferred products worse.
 
The shape of the USB-C port is sufficiently small and they can still innovate on that form factor. In fact there has been lots of innovation in that form factor as it supports multiple standards. Yes, the Lightning form factor was also nice, but there was no innovation for that form factor after it was released. I personally do not believe wireless charging standards will replace wired anytime soon, namely because it is wasteful.

We’ve already had a phone released whose manufacturer said the USB-C port was a limiter on how thin they could make it.


Yibao said that the Find N5 will be the world’s thinnest folding flagship phone. Codenamed Haiyan, he went on to say that they could make the phone even thinner but were limited by the thickness of the USB-C port.

So not even a year into effect and the EU has already unintentionally started dictating design choices! Fantastic job! This is why bureaucrats shouldn’t be making these sorts of decisions for tech companies! They don’t know better - if they did, they’d work for a tech company, not a regulatory agency.

Look, I prefer USB-C. But mandating it in law is incredibly stupid. Especially when it was perfectly clear that Apple was moving there.
 
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