freeny said:
There's nothing to be mad about... that's the point.
This isn't determinative of the best team in the world... to argue otherwise is just silly... it's an exhibition, and a fun one, but determining the best team? Gimme a break.
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Japan Wins WBC!
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There's nothing to be mad about... that's the point.
This isn't determinative of the best team in the world... to argue otherwise is just silly... it's an exhibition, and a fun one, but determining the best team? Gimme a break.
2006 WBC: Japan over Cuba
2005 Baseball World Cup: Cuba over Korea
2004 Athens Olympics: Cuba over Australia
whatever the excuse is, its obvious that at this point the US is not the dominant world power in baseball at the national level, and it's not necessarily so at club level either, whatever we call the finals.
It would be great to have a real World Series with a final four with club teams from the world's major leagues: 1 from north america (us/mexico/canada), 1 from central/carribeans/south america, 1 from asia, 1 from the rest of the world (probably a pushover. but what can you do)
edit: about the knockout stages, that's how it works in most sports.
part of being a champion is to be able to perform when it counts.
2005 Baseball World Cup: Cuba over Korea
2004 Athens Olympics: Cuba over Australia
whatever the excuse is, its obvious that at this point the US is not the dominant world power in baseball at the national level, and it's not necessarily so at club level either, whatever we call the finals.
It would be great to have a real World Series with a final four with club teams from the world's major leagues: 1 from north america (us/mexico/canada), 1 from central/carribeans/south america, 1 from asia, 1 from the rest of the world (probably a pushover. but what can you do)
edit: about the knockout stages, that's how it works in most sports.
part of being a champion is to be able to perform when it counts.
Don't panic said:
When you have more games, you have more time for the cream to rise to the top. There's a reason every sport that's able (baseball, hockey, basketball - it would be impossible in football) uses an extended playoff format instead of single elimination. Because it's a much better way to guarantee that the best team really does win.
No one is going to play well all the time, especially in baseball. If you seriously follow the sport you know this. Sometimes even the best teams go through very cold stretches. Single games are all but meaningless. You can see one team pound another 12-5 one day, and lose 2-1 the next day. It's flukey, it's inexplicable, and that's part of what makes it so fun.
Let me ask you this. Which is more likely to accurately determine the best team in baseball - the current 162 game season with 3 rounds of playoffs (best of 5-7 games per series), or playing 10 games and then having a few rounds of single elimination? More time + games = the best team wins. Few games + single elimination = meaningless flukes.
Let's look at the WBC itself. Japan lost 3 games, including one against Korea that they believed was do or die (lucky for them the US choked). They believed their backs were against the wall (and they should have been) and played their hearts out. And lost. So I guess they really weren't able to "perform when it counted," right?
With the exception of the WBC, the US team for those tournaments is usually made up of college and minor league players. Not exactly the best we can offer, but what do you expect when the Olympics are during the height of pennant races?Don't panic said:
I wouldn't quite say it is an exhibition though. I'm sure to the players, there was a lot more on the line than just a few 'practice' games. Even for the countries themselves it was more than just exhibition. The Korean players are excused from mandatory military service for doing so well.QCassidy352 said:There's nothing to be mad about... that's the point.
This isn't determinative of the best team in the world... to argue otherwise is just silly... it's an exhibition, and a fun one, but determining the best team? Gimme a break.
While there's a lot to be said for using leagues to determine who the best sides are because it showcases consistency, good teams tend to finish near the top regardless of the method of qualification. The teams that make excuses are the ones that can't hack it.
I was in New York a couple of years ago and we got tickets to see the Yankees vs the Red Sox (apparently a bid deal). The game was remarkably dull with all the points being scored off one hit and the final score over the multiple innings was 2-0 - and you people have the nerve to call football dull. I'll concede that the fielding was impressive but on teh whole it just tended to drag a bit. On top of that the crowds were dull. The best chants were: Let's go Yankees, Go back to Boston and Red Sox suck. Almost felt compelled to get some football chants going just to teach you people a lesson in how to cheer a side on then the police ejected someone for being a bit too vocal (perhaps he was bored!)
At any rate, congratulations to Japan.
I was in New York a couple of years ago and we got tickets to see the Yankees vs the Red Sox (apparently a bid deal). The game was remarkably dull with all the points being scored off one hit and the final score over the multiple innings was 2-0 - and you people have the nerve to call football dull. I'll concede that the fielding was impressive but on teh whole it just tended to drag a bit. On top of that the crowds were dull. The best chants were: Let's go Yankees, Go back to Boston and Red Sox suck. Almost felt compelled to get some football chants going just to teach you people a lesson in how to cheer a side on then the police ejected someone for being a bit too vocal (perhaps he was bored!)
At any rate, congratulations to Japan.
Japan may have been lucky having been able to go to the finals with two losses to Korea but they definately were the best team in Pool A and B during the past couple of weeks.
Some people might say Korea should have advanced but if you look closely at the games Japan definately deserved it. Korea was 2-0 against Chinese Taipei and 10-1 against China but Japan was 14-3 and 18-2 against the same teams. With Mexico the same thing, for Korea 2-1 and Japan 6-1. Had Bob Davidson not made that wrong call Japan would probably have beat team USA as well.
This was the first WBC ever so there are a lot of things that could be improved but overall it was very exciting to watch. It was great seeing heathly national pride on all of the teams. The calls by umpires were not really on target but after seeing the outcome the teams did not suffer from them and they are actually funny memories that makes the first WBC stand out.
Congrats to all the players that participated in the game.
Some people might say Korea should have advanced but if you look closely at the games Japan definately deserved it. Korea was 2-0 against Chinese Taipei and 10-1 against China but Japan was 14-3 and 18-2 against the same teams. With Mexico the same thing, for Korea 2-1 and Japan 6-1. Had Bob Davidson not made that wrong call Japan would probably have beat team USA as well.
This was the first WBC ever so there are a lot of things that could be improved but overall it was very exciting to watch. It was great seeing heathly national pride on all of the teams. The calls by umpires were not really on target but after seeing the outcome the teams did not suffer from them and they are actually funny memories that makes the first WBC stand out.
Congrats to all the players that participated in the game.
You do realize that the Yankee vs. the Red Soxs is the biggest rivalry in any professional sport? Why do you go to a baseball game if you think they are dull? And what does a football player yell? I have never been to a professional football game.jimN said:
MacNut said:Baseball is a game of strategy and skill, unlike Futball, where you kick a ball around for 2 hours and nothing happens.
That's very funny. I hope you are being sarcastic.
Probably before the Sox had the players to really challenge the Skankees (say, pre-2003).MacNut said:You picked the wrong game to see then.
irmongoose said:
Why am I sick for being nationalistic? besides it was just a joke. Americans have their flags all around their homes and thats not sick. Chill dude.
QCassidy352 said:
So if the best baseball team ever assembled in history were to play, have a record of 112-0, and then have a stretch of 15 or so games where they only won 30% of their games, and then they were knocked out of the WBC, are you saying they should just call the entire thing off because the best team in baseball were obviously not playing their best and were just having a unlucky streak? Wiiiiiimps. Same can be said about many playoff series then. How many games do you have to play to ensure that the most talented team definitely wins.......where the standard error for the best team becomes insignificant and so they'll surely win more games than the other inferior team?
Or what about the opposite? "They shouldn't have won. They were having a lucky streak, so this series means nothing!"
What this sort of tournament tells us that the team that played best that day or week won the game, which is what ALL tournaments and playoffs tell us.
QCassidy352 said:
right, whereas ticket sales, air time and advertisement have nothing to do with it...
and the same goes for the unbearably long baseball season: the more the games, the more money they make. Simple as that.
Not that it doesn't make sense from an owner perspective, but it's really naive to think that it's otherwise.
Besides, by your criteria of deciding who the best is, you should get rid of the playoffs altogether and just have a full round-robin regular season (where everyone plays everyone else the same number of times).
cut it down to 50 games and best of 3 series in the playoffs and THEN will have some exciting games, where, indeed, the result counts.
counterfit,
as I was saying, whatever the excuse is, the fact is that on the international stage the US is not THE dominant force by any stretch.
It doesn't matter if we like to believe it is by choice. Until we do send the best players and show dominance (a la Dream Team v 1.0), it's just cheap talk.
First off, am aware that red sox vs yankees was a big deal and hoped that would produce a good game. Have to admit to not being aware that it was quite so dull before going, hoped that it would be better 'in the flesh' as it were. As it was this was one of teh games in teh season the red sox won (they won the game in question 2-0).
Football (soccer for the uninitiated) lasts 90mins (although can be up to 10 mins longer if man u are losing at home) and whilst it isn't my favourite sport it's a darn sight more interesting than baseball.
I think that that answers your points.
Football (soccer for the uninitiated) lasts 90mins (although can be up to 10 mins longer if man u are losing at home) and whilst it isn't my favourite sport it's a darn sight more interesting than baseball.
I think that that answers your points.