JCPenney Now Accepts Apple Pay Nationwide, Integrates With Own Credit Card and Loyalty Program

[Robert.Walter]

Uh, yeah, that's catty alright. Smart phones are, like, everywhere now. You'd noticed that, right?

The modernization effort was misguided. Penney's has been an off-price retailer for ages. Johnson was trying to execute a turn on a dime into something entirely different. It was a doomed plan.

I was in a Penney's just yesterday. It was kind of jammed, and not with old people, but families. Lots of kids. They sell large appliances now, which I thought was interesting. I was in Macy's too. That store was kind of deserted. Considering malls are generally in trouble nationwide, Penney's seems to be hanging on quite well. Penney's has been doomed for like 15 years now. Kind of sounds familiar.

The Ron Johnson changes were rejected more by the board, not so much by the customers.

 

[CrystalQuest76]

JCPenny - if you aren't 65 or older, you aren't shopping in JCPenny....FACT!!

My teen age nephew would disagree with that statement. Just since your experience is a certain way, don't assume it applies to all others.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Uh, yeah, that's catty alright. Smart phones are, like, everywhere now. You'd noticed that, right?

Yes, they are ubiquitous. I didn't say they were not. I said I wonder if JCP customers have them. Two different things. Wander down thread to my latter clarification if you are really interested in what I meant.

But to continue on to your immediate reply to me:

My mom's card group and stock club ladies -- mostly 70 somethings -- either do not have a smartphone or have zero idea how to use it other than make a phone call. They literally don't even know how to text. I can see them using Apple Pay. Anecdotal, yes, but they are not an isolated group. There are others. Smartphone My dad was a technophobe even in his 50s. In his 60s he asked me, kindly, to stop giving him gifts with "wires and switches." He passed away a couple years ago never owning a smartphone. He loved his LG flip.

So let's get to the scientifically significant data:

Latest Pew survey in January found that 77% of American adults have smartphones. Same poll revealed 95% of all Americans have a cell phone of some kind. So 5% of Americans have no cell phone, and 18% that do have phones are regular "feature phones."

Roughly 245 million adults in the U.S. 5% of that is 12,250,000 phone-less people. 18% is a bit more than 44m. By income, of people making less than 30K the smartphone to feature phone split is 64% to 29%. 30K-49,9K it's 74%-21. Similar results by age with 23% of people 50+ using just feature phones and at 65+ 38% only have a feature phone.

So you may think your snarkiness is cute and brilliant, but that facts are not on your side here.

Pew Survey

 

[CarlJ]

By "accepting Apple Pay", they mean installing contactless readers at the point of sale. Most stores here in the US don't have those, so when they install them they are able to accept Apple Pay and other forms of contactless payment, and so announce it like this.

It's not only installing NFC-capable readers, it's also switching that functionality on in their terminals (and presumably some back-end system). I see one of the popular models (made by Verifone, IIRC), everywhere, and some places it works, while others it doesn't.

If I recall correctly, a few stores (Home Depot and CVS?) were caught unawares when Apple Pay came out, and people started using it on their terminals, and they turned the NFC feature off that people had been successfully using. Some companies were doing it in anticipation of rolling out their own (more lucrative to them) alternative to Apple Pay (see CurrentC), while others likely got worried and wanted to "further investigate the issue" (likely to see if there was witchcraft involved).

Meanwhile, the nearby RiteAid turned it on long ago and has "ApplePay / SamsungPay" stickers in the window. I use it where I can (RiteAid, PetCo, BestBuy, etc.). About 5% of the time I get a store employee asking "if it's as safe as a credit card" and get to watch their eyes widen as I explain the ways in which it's significantly safer.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Yes, they are ubiquitous. I didn't say they were not. I said I wonder if JCP customers have them. Two different things. Wander down thread to my latter clarification if you are really interested in what I meant.

But to continue on to your immediate reply to me:

My mom's card group and stock club ladies -- mostly 70 somethings -- either do not have a smartphone or have zero idea how to use it other than make a phone call. They literally don't even know how to text. I can see them using Apple Pay. Anecdotal, yes, but they are not an isolated group. There are others. Smartphone My dad was a technophobe even in his 50s. In his 60s he asked me, kindly, to stop giving him gifts with "wires and switches." He passed away a couple years ago never owning a smartphone. He loved his LG flip.

So let's get to the scientifically significant data:

Latest Pew survey in January found that 77% of American adults have smartphones. Same poll revealed 95% of all Americans have a cell phone of some kind. So 5% of Americans have no cell phone, and 18% that do have phones are regular "feature phones."

Roughly 245 million adults in the U.S. 5% of that is 12,250,000 phone-less people. 18% is a bit more than 44m. By income, of people making less than 30K the smartphone to feature phone split is 64% to 29%. 30K-49,9K it's 74%-21. Similar results by age with 23% of people 50+ using just feature phones and at 65+ 38% only have a feature phone.

So you may think your snarkiness is cute and brilliant, but that facts are not on your side here.

Pew Survey

Uh, right. Maybe you should read what I said about who is shopping at Penney's. Full of families with kids, last time I was in one of the stores, which was just yesterday, as it happened. So maybe your argument that their customers are mainly 70+ isn't on the mark.

So yes, your remark was catty. I was simply agreeing with you on that point.
[doublepost=1500934583][/doublepost]

The Ron Johnson changes were rejected more by the board, not so much by the customers.

The board seemed to recognize that what he was trying to do, could not be done.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Uh, right. Maybe you should read what I said about who is shopping at Penney's. Full of families with kids, last time I was in one of the stores, which was just yesterday, as it happened. So maybe your argument that their customers are mainly 70+ isn't on the mark.

Except that wasn't my point, but JCP has it's share of older "set in their way" shoppers + lower income folks who's interests are not trendy, modern, or change. That is why Ron Johnson's makeover did not take. Peruse the survey I linked. If you cross tab the various demographics I think you'll find JCP customers more than Target or Macy's are more likely to have flip phones.

Also cute that you use your anecdotal story about being in ONE store at one point in time is cute, but it doesn't prove anything. If that is your point show me the survey that shows JCPs key demo nationwide, not just your one store, is young families, high income, highly educated, the kind of demo most likely to have smartphones. Then we can talk.

 

[truthertech]

As it has been typical for Apple services they aren't really useful outside of their home market.

Not true, Apple Pay is now in over a dozen countries. Germany is a difficult case as the banks keep resisting, but don't worry, soon the dam will break there as well.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Except that wasn't my point, but JCP has it's share of older "set in their way" shoppers + lower income folks who's interests are not trendy, modern, or change. That is why Ron Johnson's makeover did not take. Peruse the survey I linked. If you cross tab the various demographics I think you'll find JCP customers more than Target or Macy's are more likely to have flip phones.

Also cute that you use your anecdotal story about being in ONE store at one point in time is cute, but it doesn't prove anything. If that is your point show me the survey that shows JCPs key demo nationwide, not just your one store, is young families, high income, highly educated, the kind of demo most likely to have smartphones. Then we can talk.

Cute, aw. That's cute.

Man, if that's what I get for agreeing with you, I should avoid disagreeing. It could be fatal.

 

[Macyourdayy]

Basically "accept Apple Pay" means "installed NFC terminals". Apple Pay brings more eyes than simply saying we've enabled non-contact payment.
Bolded: Can I assume you're in Australia? If so, what do you mean they want access to the secure enclave? AFAIK, that's never been the ask. They've asked for access to NFC. Entirely different from asking for access to the SE.

You're probably right, but I thought I remembered a discussion about how three of our largest banks were colluding and trying legal and/or "anti competitive" bs to try to get the government to force Apple to give them access to more than just the workings of the NFC section. This access would of course be used for data mining, and essentially back dooring the security walls, never mind inserting their own interface into the payment system and we all know how well that's worked in the States.
You also correctly guessed the Great Southern Land for the location of this tragi-comedy. How well the SE is insulated from the NFC payment mechanism is well beyond my grasp. Were there suggestions that there might be an NFC API, because I thought computer said no effing way?

 

[69Mustang]

You're probably right, but I thought I remembered a discussion about how three of our largest banks were colluding and trying legal and/or "anti competitive" bs to try to get the government to force Apple to give them access to more than just the workings of the NFC section. This access would of course be used for data mining, and essentially back dooring the security walls, never mind inserting their own interface into the payment system and we all know how well that's worked in the States.
You also correctly guessed the Great Southern Land for the location of this tragi-comedy. How well the SE is insulated from the NFC payment mechanism is well beyond my grasp. Were there suggestions that there might be an NFC API, because I thought computer said no effing way?

To be fair, you probably did see a discussion centering around the banks wanting access to all sorts of things. We commenters sometimes build entire narratives based entirely on what if scenarios that, unfortunately, take a life of their own. Facts be damned. Suffice it to say, the banks were only requesting access to NFC functionality. There is an NFC API, but AFAIK it's only one way communcation, not two. My opinion is full NFC two way access will be open when Apple feels Apple Pay has enough iOS penetration and usage to withstand competition within the ecosystem.

 

[kdarling]

If I recall correctly, a few stores (Home Depot and CVS?) were caught unawares when Apple Pay came out, and people started using it on their terminals, and they turned the NFC feature off that people had been successfully using.

Some of us were using Google Wallet at places like Home Depot and CVS, long before Apple Pay came along. Never had a problem.

http://searchengineland.com/google-wallet-surprisingly-easy-to-use-95362

Probably why I didn't have a problem with the data breaches either, since even old Google Wallet used a token Mastercard account number instead of my real one(s).

Some companies were doing it in anticipation of rolling out their own (more lucrative to them) alternative to Apple Pay (see CurrentC), while others likely got worried and wanted to "further investigate the issue" (likely to see if there was witchcraft involved).

They knew we were using NFC and didn't seem to mind.

So I think you're right that Apple was higher profile and was seen as much more of a threat to their own schemes.

 

[CarlJ]

Some of us were using Google Wallet at places like Home Depot and CVS, long before Apple Pay came along. Never had a problem.

FWIW, I think this is the story I was remembering:

https://www.macrumors.com/2015/05/05/home-depot-quietly-drops-apple-pay/