Joanna Stern and John Gruber Discuss Apple M1 Transition and 'Craptastic' 720p FaceTime Cameras

[PickUrPoison]

Yes, it is objectively outdated. Apple creates devices with 5k screens and 4k HDR cameras.

To the extent objectively means the subjectively, you’re right!

But 5k screens and 4k HDR cameras aren’t relevant. You don’t get a 4k HDR camera when the thickness is 2mm.

Webcams around the thickness of 2mm is the tech that’s relevant.

 

[v3rlon]

He was brightly lit. I have the same camera (without the software wizardry, as it's the early-2020 Air) and it works great on a bright day or a well lit office/room. In the evening with subdued lighting it's unusable. But that's fine - I use my phone then.

This: you want to look better on camera? Learn lighting. Its that simple.

There are only a million tutorials on the subject.

Good lighting will do more for you than 1080p (or 2.7k or 4k or 8k).

 

[Enlightened Doggo]

To the extent objectively means the subjectively, you’re right!

But 5k screens and 4k HDR cameras aren’t relevant. You don’t get a 4k HDR camera when the thickness is 2mm.

Webcams around the thickness of 2mm is the tech that’s relevant.

2mm is an arbitrary limitation that you have decided on. As we have seen from iPhones, Apple consumers are observably quite comfortable with camera bumps in at least certain circumstances. Also the thickness of an intentionally enlarged sensor with unnecessary features for a webcam like stabilization is not evidence that a significantly better sensor than the current 720p one cannot fit into that space anyways.

 

[Enlightened Doggo]

You’ve misunderstood my posts. I didn’t say I know what other Apple customers want. I said Apple does. Apple knows what their customer base wants. That’s the whole purpose of market research, and Apple does a TON of it.

It’s amusing to see you accuse me of thinking I know what customers want, when you’re the one who’s actually projecting your personal wish onto Apple’s customer base as a whole 🤣

There is no misunderstanding. You made an assertion, then attributed your own conclusion to the brilliance of Apple knowing best. It was very humorous to untangle. Either way, I'm glad we're on the same page now in that you do not actually know what the market wants, and have no authority to make such assertions.

 

[chucker23n1]

2mm is an arbitrary limitation that you have decided on. As we have seen from iPhones, Apple consumers are observably quite comfortable with camera bumps in at least certain circumstances.

Yes, adding a bump is an option.

Camera bumps on laptops are quite a bit rarer than on phones, though. The camera also plays a far less pivotal role on a laptop than it does on a modern smartphone.

Also the thickness of an intentionally enlarged sensor with unnecessary features for a webcam like stabilization is not evidence that a significantly better sensor than the current 720p one cannot fit into that space anyways.

Right. I'm sure you have no trouble at all pointing to the plethora of competing products that are similarly slim but offer a much nicer camera.

Any second now…

 

[PickUrPoison]

There is no misunderstanding. You made an assertion, then attributed your own conclusion to the brilliance of Apple knowing best. It was very humorous to untangle. Either way, I'm glad we're on the same page now in that you do not actually know what the market wants, and have no authority to make such assertions.

Apple does know best, that’s what you fail to understand. That’s exactly what I’m trying to help you realize 🙂

Apple: Spends hundreds of millions in market research, and knows it would be foolish to put a thick lid/bump on their laptops just to make the webcam better. That’s not what their customers overall want, and they know it.

You: Want a better webcam even if the lid (and hence the entire laptop) gets significantly thicker—or has an ugly camera bump no one wants)—and you think most think like you. Apple doesn’t realize you’re right and that they’re wrong.

Me: Apple’s customers overall don’t want a thicker lid to get a better webcam. You want that, sure. But you don’t represent Apple’s customer base as a whole.

You: “It is your opinion that you know what other Apple customers want.”

Me: No, it is my opinion that Apple knows what Apple customers want. And much better than you. Apple has to make compromises that best satisfy the entire customer base.

Personally, it wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn you represent less than 10% of all MacBook users.

Bottom line, you want something most don’t want. You can continue to think 51+% of MacBook customers want what you want, and I’ll continue to think you’re wrong.

And Apple will continue making the thin laptops they know their customers want 🤷‍♂️