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iBug2

macrumors 601
Jun 12, 2005
4,531
851
And Touch ID isn't forward thinking. It saves maaaaybe less then 1 second then sliding to unlock.

What you are saying is "current thinking." Touch ID isn't put there to save you couple seconds only. It'll act as Apple's way of creating an e-Wallet system in the future. That's the forward thinking part.
 

Illusion986

macrumors 6502
Mar 12, 2009
354
3
Agreed. How about this? Let's spell some if it out. In a year when all of he selling iPhones and iPads are 64bit, and the majority of continually developed apps take advantage of that fact, android might be releasing a 64bit solution.

Do those who don't get it also not understand the importance of letting your foundation set before building on it?

Sadly they don't. People want it now and they want it all. Once product is rushed out and has issues same people moan of how its horrible. There is just no wining with them and they should be ignored.

As far as 64bit goes, agreed. Finger print scanner makes perfect sense, once payment system is integrated the scanner will be already tested on less essential areas such as unlocking your phone. It would be a big big mess if they released it with payment system and someone found an easy way to hack it. Now they will have at least a year of experience and some issues that might have raised be fixed before rolling out payment system.
 

kerrikins

macrumors 65816
Sep 22, 2012
1,242
530
"Innovation is great, but it ain't everything. It's not the whole equation. Execution is what really matters."

Exactly! And that is why patents should be eliminated. Ideas are a dime a dozen. It is bringing the product to market, creating the product ecosystem, etc that is important. Let's kill off the patent system. It is absurd. It needs to die.

We need patent reform, not for it to be done away with altogether. Companies need to be able to protect what they work on.
 

bmunge

macrumors 6502
Mar 7, 2012
320
391
I can drink to this. The tech world in general isn't turning out very much innovation at the moment, that's coming from what you could say is a tech splinter, video games. But yeah, Cook is a bean counter, everything Apple has done has been evolutionary, even iOS 7 was really just a new set of graphics. I thought it was hilarious when the iPhone 5S's slogan was "Forward thinking" when all it was was a spec bump and finger print scanner.

You clearly don't work in IT. The A7 processor is an amazing piece of hardware and TouchId is the first mobile fingerprint solution that actually works and adds to the experience. No one else was able to compete in that space and we still haven't seen a competitor release a comparable fingerprint security mechanism. Add in the improvements Apple has made to their camera sensor tech and the 5s is an impressive upgrade. I'm not sure what else you'd be expecting...
 

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,546
1,196
Google and Apple both have been great innovators, and both remain so.

The greatest innovation being tossed out for public attention (possibly before quiet abandonment) might currently be coming from Google. The greatest innovation behind the scenes? Hard to tell until/unless it emerges! Or until what has already emerged comes into its own, realizing things Apple has planned farther in advance than we know.

(And those who think new public releases poured out any faster under Steve Jobs have distorted memories indeed.)
 

Count Blah

macrumors 68040
Jan 6, 2004
3,192
2,748
US of A
Better until more recently. rMBP's have bad screen problems, iOS 7 crashes on new and old hardware like crazy - especially safari. The new iPads have horrible tab reload issues in safari, most likely due to low RAM.

I am not too terribly impressed with apple's product/iOS releases as of late.
 

Lapidus

macrumors regular
May 14, 2012
202
174
I can drink to this. The tech world in general isn't turning out very much innovation at the moment, that's coming from what you could say is a tech splinter, video games. But yeah, Cook is a bean counter, everything Apple has done has been evolutionary, even iOS 7 was really just a new set of graphics. I thought it was hilarious when the iPhone 5S's slogan was "Forward thinking" when all it was was a spec bump and finger print scanner.

What did you expect? A phone with an never-ending battery-life?
When would you say "Wow this is an innovative phone."?
By the way: "Forward thinking" -> TouchID, Mobile Payments.
 

osx11

macrumors 6502a
Jan 16, 2011
825
0
I have a hard time believing that Jobs told Isaacson Apple's future roadmap.

I doubt he knows anything specific. Apple would never risk this!
 

clibinarius

macrumors 6502a
Aug 26, 2010
671
70
NY
iPhone 5c sales support the fact that people are willing to pay extra for the best value (features, benefits, performance, etc.). I think they've learned that a race to the bottom is the wrong path for them.

I disagree-Apple's experience with the iPhone 5C indicates that people won't buy an inferior product when it is seen as a bad value. If the iPhone 5C replaced, say, the iPhone 4S, then I think it would've sold better, as people familiar with Apple's prices would've wondered why Apple cheapened the product further than normal.

Value buyers are still going to the 4S, which is obsolete in the Apple arsenal, and interested buyers are going for the 5S. The 5C has no place.

I know of only one person who has it, but several with 5, 5S, 4S and 4. Many of those phones (minus 5 and 4) have been purchased since the introduction of the 5C.

No matter how you slice it, Apple should've just knocked down the price of the 5, or the 5C more. It isn't like the 5C costs outrageously much more than the 4S, is it? (I'd imagine that the 4S might even be pricier to make because the materials-I don't see significant savings on A5 v. A6, but I do v. one factory for shell v. two panes of glass, but I'm not sure-I think Apple could probably save money by simply ditching A5 production by this point completely in favor of A6, which would probably lessen A6 prices due to scaling)
 

Volkstaia

macrumors regular
Jul 5, 2012
133
2
East Coast of the US
You clearly don't work in IT. The A7 processor is an amazing piece of hardware and TouchId is the first mobile fingerprint solution that actually works and adds to the experience. No one else was able to compete in that space and we still haven't seen a competitor release a comparable fingerprint security mechanism. Add in the improvements Apple has made to their camera sensor tech and the 5s is an impressive upgrade. I'm not sure what else you'd be expecting...

I'd expect something that benefits me. Also way to be a jerk...

"You OBVIOUSLY don't work in IT as shown by your VASTLY INFERIOR KNOWLEDGE"

Sorry for having an opinion, cupcake.
 

lincolntran

macrumors 6502a
Jan 18, 2010
843
471
I'd expect something that benefits me. Also way to be a jerk...

"You OBVIOUSLY don't work in IT as shown by your VASTLY INFERIOR KNOWLEDGE"

Sorry for having an opinion, cupcake.

So a phone that doesn't benefit you is not an innovative phone? What if it's been a great benefit to others? Does that mean it's an innovative phone then? Or
 

osaga

macrumors 6502
Jun 11, 2012
454
170
Google better at exploring new ideas (publicly)?
Apple better at what matters/execution?
Apple will never race to the bottom?

Thanks Captain Obvious.
 

subsonix

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2008
3,551
79
Voice recognition, wearable computing, self-driving cars, tons of back-end technologies/tools that allow them to scale and return results as fast they do.

None of that is invented by or is unique to Google.

Note that I'm wearing the relativity hat that's so popular here when discussing innovation.
 

mdriftmeyer

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2004
3,810
1,985
Pacific Northwest
It's a two variable equation: Innovation + Execution

Walter does not know Engineering.

The level of Manufacturing Engineering innovation from Apple is unparalleled.

Google can't remotely touch them.

That level of innovation makes for the entire Apple Ecosystem of Hardware to be best of breed in quality builds.

Nothing in software that Google has done is innovating above Apple.
 

Chupa Chupa

macrumors G5
Jul 16, 2002
14,835
7,396
Wow.

To read these threads, Apple products are behind (smaller screens, no expandable storage, no configurability), Apple doesn't innovate anymore, and Tim Cook is a dullard in execution, particularly as it rlates to supply chain.

And yet, Apple reported record revenue and profits, record sales for iPhone and iPad.

I wish my employer and its CEO could fail and be as disappointing as Apple and Tim Cook are. It would make me a rich man.

I'm confused by your response to my post.

Fact: iPhone sales were below Apple's guidance because Apple produced too many 5c models & not enough 5S. Tim Cooks's own admission here, not my conjecture.

Fact: Tim Cook admitted last January he made a mistake announcing the 27" too far ahead of realistic availability.

Fact: The Mac Pro went on sale literally at the last possible moment but still isn't readily available.

Fact: By Tim Cook's own admission iPad mini w/ retina would be constrained during the peak of the holiday buying season. To his credit he handled sales in a sane manner but the constraint still cost sales.

These are all supply chain management & execution flaws.

Fact: By Tim Cook's own admission during the conference call earlier this week this quarters revenue guidance will be below expectations meaning no new big products.

So what exactly is your issue with what I wrote? I'm far from an Apple h8tr & I don't have unrealistic expectations either. But reality is what it is & Cook has been mediocre as CEO at best because of the above.
 

inscrewtable

macrumors 68000
Oct 9, 2010
1,656
402
Apple were shafted by microsoft and they thought they had the iphone patented to it's back teeth but samsung found a way. Therefore I predict that Apple's next line of breakout products when they finally do arrive in however many years it takes, will have taken note of this. I predict that it may take some time for the next 'game changer' to materialise from Apple, (and it won't be the iwatch) but when it comes it will be bullet proof.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
Apple were shafted by microsoft and they thought they had the iphone patented to it's back teeth but samsung found a way. Therefore I predict that Apple's next line of breakout products when they finally do arrive in however many years it takes, will have taken note of this. I predict that it may take some time for the next 'game changer' to materialise from Apple, (and it won't be the iwatch) but when it comes it will be bullet proof.

Doubt it. Nothing is bullet proof.
 

Speedy2

macrumors 65816
Nov 19, 2008
1,163
254
Since when does anyone care about a random book author's opinion so much?

It's a slow rumors season.
 

japanime

macrumors 68030
Feb 27, 2006
2,916
4,844
Japan
Whether it's television or a wearable watch, I don't think Apple's going to do well trying to be in the commodity low end race with Samsung and others.

I sure hope the iWatch is wearable. Pocket watches are so 19th century...
 

core787

macrumors newbie
Jan 31, 2014
4
1
I don't understand why they keep claiming that the iPhone 5c is anything new and cheap for Apple. Other than the fact that it has a plastic color backing, they just did exactly what they do EVERY TIME they release a new phone. They have the previous model for 99 dollars with a new contract, in this case the Iphone 5 turned into the iPhone 5c. They did the same when they released the iPhone 5 and sold the 4s for $99.

Why do people keep pretending its some new ground?!
 

cdmoore74

macrumors 68020
Jun 24, 2010
2,413
711
iPhone 5c sales support the fact that people are willing to pay extra for the best value (features, benefits, performance, etc.). I think they've learned that a race to the bottom is the wrong path for them.

How is it a race to the bottom if the 5c price still represented high-end. The 5c was nothing but a money grab. There are a number of phones that cost much less then the 5c and are just as good or better. The 5c would have been a success if it was priced accordingly. This is Apple being greedy and that's what they get.
 

ixxx69

macrumors 65816
Jul 31, 2009
1,294
878
United States
Two points:

1. Some of you are confusing what's being meant by innovation at a product segment level versus innovation at a product feature level. What the analysts (and Walter Isaacson) are referring to is the former - the introduction of iPod, iPhone, iPad. To a lesser extent, something like the new Mac Pro that "innovates" the desktop/workstation. Product "feature" innovation like 64-bit and fingerprint swipe are *important* and *useful* features (or will lead to them), but that's not the kind of innovation that changes an industry like the aforementioned products... it's just inevitable evolutionary product improvement.

2. Some of you are confusing a slight miss-reading of product demand with Apple not understanding the market. The 5S may have outsold the 5C "2 to 1", but that still means a third of customers are choosing the 5C. Even if it was 4 to 1, that's still 20% of sales! No matter how illogical the decision may appear to you, there are a lot of people who shop for phones mostly on price. If Apple can still offer a great phone that appeals to at least a portion of those customers, that's a win for them.
 

cdmoore74

macrumors 68020
Jun 24, 2010
2,413
711
I don't understand why they keep claiming that the iPhone 5c is anything new and cheap for Apple. Other than the fact that it has a plastic color backing, they just did exactly what they do EVERY TIME they release a new phone. They have the previous model for 99 dollars with a new contract, in this case the Iphone 5 turned into the iPhone 5c. They did the same when they released the iPhone 5 and sold the 4s for $99.

Why do people keep pretending its some new ground?!

It's not the same. Apple never gave the 4s a plastic body. Apple would have been fine if they just stuck to the same format which in it self is getting old.
 

kobalap

macrumors 6502
Nov 30, 2009
369
2,519
I'm confused by your response to my post.

What do you know of Apple's internal business? Have you ever even been to an Apple office, let alone their HQ in Cupertino? Do you know what is going on behind the scenes?

Because if you don't, then how do you know that Apple's recent success is not directly attributable to Tim Cook's stewardship?

Even Steve Jobs can't measure up to "Steve Jobs". Steve Jobs was floundering with NeXT before being reunited with Apple. Then sprinkled with the revolutionary products released under SJ's second stint as CEO, there were:

- iphone 4 and antenna gate.
- mobileme
- ipod hifi
- hockey puck mouse

That's just off the top off my head. And let's not forget that during the initial releases of iphone and ipad, there were availability issues as well - even though SJ was in charge.

So yeah, if you consider a CEO leading his company to record revenues and profits (two years after its founder and visionary died) as failing and a disappointment, then you are indeed confused.
 
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