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Jobs offers Mac OS X for $100 Laptop
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Wow - what happened to this thread? Before lunch it was a speculative discussion, after lunch it became a mis-informed rant about the politics of developing countries.
Anyhow, a couple points stick in my mind regarding these laptops and OS X:
* Since I seem to understand that the weight of OS X is in everything built on top of Darwin, maybe Apple has a way of scaling it to fit various hardware configurations. This of course leads to natural speculation as to whether or not it could be scaled for a PDA (which, in themselves, are now becoming mini computers) or onto different hardware configurations (since the laptops are AMD-based). Steve may be at least ruminating on the future of OS X here, and who knows if he is really so against having it being able to be installed on other manufacturer's computers.
The cynic in me says that he's just slutting for publicity. Since the MIT laptops are smartly designed for Linux, I think he's just trying to insert Apple's name into an arena of perceived innovation. It's not that the laptops ever will run OS X, it's just that Steve Jobs says they could and that's Apple being innovative again. Easy publicity without having a hard news item.
* There are plenty of schools right here in the U.S. who could take advantage of these laptops. Somehow, it seems like we're looking at this project through adult and tech-saavy eyes - if the end users have no basis for comparison, any computer is a good computer. Plus, they're really designed for children - it's not like anyone using these laptops is going to ask them for advanced PhotoShop rendering or sound editing in Logic - they want to look at the Internet, write documents in some kind of word processor, and do other basic tasks. If all I ever needed (or wanted, which is a big factor for all of us on MR) was to do these things, then in most ways my Magnavox 386sx laptop running Windows 3.1 and WordPerfect 5.1 is still adequate - it won't render the Internet anymore, but modern hardware and Linux will.
Anyhow, a couple points stick in my mind regarding these laptops and OS X:
* Since I seem to understand that the weight of OS X is in everything built on top of Darwin, maybe Apple has a way of scaling it to fit various hardware configurations. This of course leads to natural speculation as to whether or not it could be scaled for a PDA (which, in themselves, are now becoming mini computers) or onto different hardware configurations (since the laptops are AMD-based). Steve may be at least ruminating on the future of OS X here, and who knows if he is really so against having it being able to be installed on other manufacturer's computers.
The cynic in me says that he's just slutting for publicity. Since the MIT laptops are smartly designed for Linux, I think he's just trying to insert Apple's name into an arena of perceived innovation. It's not that the laptops ever will run OS X, it's just that Steve Jobs says they could and that's Apple being innovative again. Easy publicity without having a hard news item.
* There are plenty of schools right here in the U.S. who could take advantage of these laptops. Somehow, it seems like we're looking at this project through adult and tech-saavy eyes - if the end users have no basis for comparison, any computer is a good computer. Plus, they're really designed for children - it's not like anyone using these laptops is going to ask them for advanced PhotoShop rendering or sound editing in Logic - they want to look at the Internet, write documents in some kind of word processor, and do other basic tasks. If all I ever needed (or wanted, which is a big factor for all of us on MR) was to do these things, then in most ways my Magnavox 386sx laptop running Windows 3.1 and WordPerfect 5.1 is still adequate - it won't render the Internet anymore, but modern hardware and Linux will.
The situation isn't much better in Oakland. No child left behind and all...corywoolf said:
You do have to wonder, though, where the money will come from. And a project like this raises the additional question of the ends justifying the means: is it better that some more students get tools for education and fewer students still remain without proper resources, or, isn't the goal of education to elevate all students, equally? I'd even go as far as to say that although there are schools here in the U.S. who might buy a bundle of these laptops, when the average dollar per student ratio is much less than $100 in many schools, would the ultimate effect be to make the divide even wider? Good observation corywoolf.
don't know if anyone has shown this but....
"Researchers from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology will unveil a $100 laptop computer that can be powered by a hand crank in areas without a reliable supply of electricity."
that came from cnn.com
it was mentioned that the computers were designed by MIT, but they will also be powered my a hand crank (which would make viewing porn interesting).
usually a computer results in a hand crank, not the other way around!
"Researchers from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology will unveil a $100 laptop computer that can be powered by a hand crank in areas without a reliable supply of electricity."
that came from cnn.com
it was mentioned that the computers were designed by MIT, but they will also be powered my a hand crank (which would make viewing porn interesting).
usually a computer results in a hand crank, not the other way around!
Maybe time for Apple to develop QuickTime for Linux?
Since QuickTime offers a complete multimedia platform not only limiting itself to being a multimedia player and the learning resources needed should allow for usage of multimedia - then the development of a version of QuickTime is a good idea.
This exposes the QuickTime platform to a very much larger audience in the future...
http://insight.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,39020463,39236745,00.htm
One install covering close to all the significant standards for a multitude of media - a very good idea...
Maybe even a "Yellow Box" for Linux?
Since QuickTime offers a complete multimedia platform not only limiting itself to being a multimedia player and the learning resources needed should allow for usage of multimedia - then the development of a version of QuickTime is a good idea.
This exposes the QuickTime platform to a very much larger audience in the future...
http://insight.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,39020463,39236745,00.htm
One install covering close to all the significant standards for a multitude of media - a very good idea...
Maybe even a "Yellow Box" for Linux?
Mr_Ed said:I can't tell if you were trying to be funny, but I kind of like this idea
I've seen them around... they were designed for bar code scanning, but they were color Palm III devices and could probably work off of a hand crank with little effort.
Object-X said:
Most likely, it is because OS X would require then to change their hardware to suit their software. With Linux or BSD they can change the software to suit the hardware. Also, it had been a requirement for the project that the software be open-source... Jobs wouldn't have had a chance because they were following their own guidelines.
Well... Linux can take up a 1.44 MB floppy all the way up to two DVDs. Knoppix (Linkety) can store 2 GB worth of data onto a 700MB CD.Peace said:
No child with a wiped behind?FoxyKaye said:The situation isn't much better in Oakland. No child left behind and all...
The Linux-bashing is quite funny (I've seen worse on other Mac-sites on that topic, but still), it shows that even UNIX users have no idea what Linux is. I would have expected uninformed crap from a Windows forum, but it seems Mac fanboys are worse...
1.) Linux' scalability is way better than Darwins. A regular, of the shelf kernel runs on everything from a PDA to a 256 CPU Itanium2/ Myrinet supercomputer. It's also more powerful and faster, and tweaked for low-end and embedded systems. Running the GNU OS on top of Darwin instead of Linux would be very stupid, as Linux is leaps and bounds beyond. The only reason Apple choose Darwin/ FreeBSD was the license, not technical merits.
2.) The MIT notebook won't use a regular RedHat Linux, RedHat engineers are designing a custom distro for that specific notebook.
3.) Linux is not hard to use or set up. It could be as easy as OSX, or even easier. It depends on the platform and the designated use. Since the distro will designed for that notebook, installing it will be as easy as it gets, as there's no need to configure _anything_.
4.) The MIT choose Linux for several reasons (flexibility, availabilty, cost), but there's more. The open source idea is a major factor. The community will testdrive the software, will make additions, suggestions, will fix bugs - for free. Even if Apple were willing to offer equal support, they could never afford it. There's lots of software available for free, in many languages. Is OSX available Khmer or Vietnamese?
5.) Of course, the spirit of open source is also an issue. If the people that work with those notebooks understand that software and information should be free, and since the MIT intends to even ship basic programming languages and IDEs with their notebook, there's hope that people in Cambodia or wherever will join the community.
So, Linux is the only viable option. Bill knows that, Steve knows that, everybody knows that. The offer was a marketing stunt. A bad one, I might add, because Apple knew the MIT would turn it down. The MIT asked for screwdrivers, Apple offered free pencils. That seems nice, but it's not what the MIT needs. So, the offer either was a stunt or stupid...
1.) Linux' scalability is way better than Darwins. A regular, of the shelf kernel runs on everything from a PDA to a 256 CPU Itanium2/ Myrinet supercomputer. It's also more powerful and faster, and tweaked for low-end and embedded systems. Running the GNU OS on top of Darwin instead of Linux would be very stupid, as Linux is leaps and bounds beyond. The only reason Apple choose Darwin/ FreeBSD was the license, not technical merits.
2.) The MIT notebook won't use a regular RedHat Linux, RedHat engineers are designing a custom distro for that specific notebook.
3.) Linux is not hard to use or set up. It could be as easy as OSX, or even easier. It depends on the platform and the designated use. Since the distro will designed for that notebook, installing it will be as easy as it gets, as there's no need to configure _anything_.
4.) The MIT choose Linux for several reasons (flexibility, availabilty, cost), but there's more. The open source idea is a major factor. The community will testdrive the software, will make additions, suggestions, will fix bugs - for free. Even if Apple were willing to offer equal support, they could never afford it. There's lots of software available for free, in many languages. Is OSX available Khmer or Vietnamese?
5.) Of course, the spirit of open source is also an issue. If the people that work with those notebooks understand that software and information should be free, and since the MIT intends to even ship basic programming languages and IDEs with their notebook, there's hope that people in Cambodia or wherever will join the community.
So, Linux is the only viable option. Bill knows that, Steve knows that, everybody knows that. The offer was a marketing stunt. A bad one, I might add, because Apple knew the MIT would turn it down. The MIT asked for screwdrivers, Apple offered free pencils. That seems nice, but it's not what the MIT needs. So, the offer either was a stunt or stupid...
So he expects children to run Red hat. . . Nope. Not gonna happen. Even ubuntu, with probably the simplest interface and most straightforward controls is a pain to run compared to X. Furthermore, open source support is a crock; you generally get what you pay for, and since you're paying nothing, you're getting nothing. open source support might belikened to posting a question on a blog and maybe someone stumbling across it six months later.
What kind of real-world computing skills is someone gonna learn running linux. I don't recall seeing a job posting for a script kiddie or a 1337 h4X0|2. . .
Get real. I don't care how you spin it. With a few exceptions, Open source just doesn't measure up to commercial.
What kind of real-world computing skills is someone gonna learn running linux. I don't recall seeing a job posting for a script kiddie or a 1337 h4X0|2. . .
Get real. I don't care how you spin it. With a few exceptions, Open source just doesn't measure up to commercial.
If I was Steve, and I am not, I would go back to my office sit down and come up with an apple variation but not just for developing countries, it would be for the whole world. There are kids here in the US who still don't have access to technology, putting them at a disadvantage to those that do. I think it would be great if Apple could come up with a special laptop just for kids in school... I bet apple could also make it visually appealing to kids.
Object-X said:
I disagree with your opinion
OSX will run like crap on a cheap machine
Linux will allow the creators to "tinker" with it, the will be able to optimise the software for the hardware and make everything work properly.
Linux is hardly an inferior OS, the biggest gripes i have with it is not being able to run commercial software (like ableton live) and the ocassional setup problem, which, if you know what your doing is almost always relativley trivial to fix.
In these circumstances i dont see anyone trying to run commercial apps, one they cant afford to buy it, and two it'll run like crap on a $100 computer. There will be no setup problems because the creators will be doing all the setting up to make the software perfectly fit the hardware.
If they didnt choose linux MS would be the next logical choice *shudders*, after all 95% of people use it.
zim said:
This would be cool
So basically, drop everything from the current laptops BUT USB, Modem, and E-net, put it all in a 12" ibook running ~ 800mhz with 16megs of VRAM and 256megs of RAM and a 20 gig hard drive, and sell it for $350, BTO option of wireless. No mid-ranged consumer would buy it, it's too slow and outdated. everyone else...you bet they would.
Apple could even ship it with the full Wikipedia site downloaded and saved onto hard disk (great for research!), iWorks, iLife, and have a $5/year 800 number for limited dial-up internet (ie email and text IM's, and updates only).
On second thought...for $350, I would buy that in a heartbeat.
Hell, if someone could come up with a way to download wikipedia onto my hard drive...that in itself is almost worth the $350!
SPUY767 said:
lol youre kidding right?
I dont see how ubuntu is a pain i run it everyday, my girlfriend can easily use my computer but sit her down at a mac and she just cant comprehend how it works and how to use it.
As for support the online community is great, and if you want "real" support then companies are more than happy to give it to you for a suitable fee. Redhat is probably going to provide some kind of basic support or something for the systems.
What kind of real world skills are they gonna learn?? huh?? i dont see where you are coming from with this one. If they did chose to go with OSX they would be installing exactly the same open source (and thus free) applications that they are on linux, for example open office. So all the skills they would learn if they were using OSX instead.
Additionally people should be taught to use computers, not to use applications. Many people are taught to use applications and just remember how to do stuff rather than thinking logically about it. If you are taught to use a computer rather than just use a handfull of applications it should be relatively trivial to use different applications and different operating systems.
The $100 notebook is an old concept (one that Walmart had as well).
Having OS X (whatever version) running on it, is partially a new idea. I say this because back then no one knew for fact that OS X existed for x86 and now since it does well the rest pretty much falls into place.
Having OS X (whatever version) running on it, is partially a new idea. I say this because back then no one knew for fact that OS X existed for x86 and now since it does well the rest pretty much falls into place.
SPUY767 said:
That would be of much more importance. Without food, clothes, shelter, and first-aid, what good does an education/entertainment PRODUCT be of value other than to sell it for money, food, clothes, shelter and first-aid.
It's all about market-share, no one cares as to what is more important. Exploitation of the developing 3rd world countries.
Stella said:
Sounds like a job for my 'tar.
SPUY767 said:
Red Hat engineers doesn't mean Red Hat will be installed. And I've found Ubuntu... different. Not a pain or anything, but different. It takes some getting used to from an OS X and Windows power user, but it is not BAD. Although I have to agree on the open-source support... not quite as helpful as I'd like, but the people that this laptop is designed for won't be needing that kind of support. The distro that will be made will be designed so that the people never have to open a Terminal window. It is going to be designed so that they can help themselves by playing with it, by reading the books that come on it. They aren't going to be a Gentoo "compile this and manually link your dependencies" thing. It will be a Ubuntu-style "No worries, simple and easy!" thing. Yes, you may not like open-source... but when it works right, look at the good. Linksys routers, TiVo set-tops, Playstation 2 and 3... Firefox, anyone?
Agreed. I guess people think that because Microsoft will licence their operating system to anyone who wants to write stuff for it that it is "open" compared to OS X. How ever that fact that they have gone for Linux which is trully open source makes that argument null and void.Photorun said: