John Gruber Shares Scathing Commentary About Apple's Departing Software Design Chief

[johnsawyercjs]

Apple used to base their designs on functional design first and use the Human Interface Guidelines document as their design bible. Recent Apple software designs have completely ignored that and pursued flashy design while removing functionality and making things harder do.

Apple's partial deprecation of its own Human Interface Guidelines actually began with the Mac OS X Public Beta in September 2000, and carried over at least as far as the first release version, 10.0 Cheetah. These versions contained a large number of pointless departures/differences and outright deletions from how classic Mac OS worked. I remember at the time someone at Apple said something to the effect that "We're loosening our requirements that developers adhere to our Human Interface Guidelines, so we can see what new things they come up with."

Apple had to walk back a lot of those changes when users loudly complained that while OS X had a lot going for it over Classic, Apple had outright broken and removed a lot of things from the interface that people relied on, things that had worked just fine. Gradually Apple added back a lot of the Classic interface functionality, while at the same time they added new things, which should have been their approach to OS X from the start.

 

[johnsawyercjs]

I prefer to let the past go and focus on moving forward. The change that’s happening now and in the coming months presents Apple with an opportunity to improve.

The specific people involved matter little to me as I don’t know them and have no desire to judge or speculate. Of far greater interest is how Apple responds and what they do to improve in the many areas that require attention.

In the meantime I will continue to enjoy my primary 16” M4 Max MacBook Pro, the cornerstone of my Apple ecosystem.

Should things get worse and devolve into a messy version of macOS, I am fully prepared with Linux well sorted and running flawlessly on my other MacBook Pro. Nothing beats choices.

I agree about not focusing too much on vilifying people who have left Apple, and I don't dwell on any of that, but Dye's departure does raise the question about how the chain of command works at Apple, when people who one would think are in a position to override bad decisions often don't. Bad decisions by people like Dye seem to be given a pass, in consideration of their better decisions. That odd chain of command at Apple, for all we know, still remains odd, despite Dye's departure, which may put at risk the opportunities that his departure might otherwise bring, which might result in Apple squandering a lot of those opportunities.

I can relate to your Linux plans, since I began forming similar plans after Apple released the first versions of OS X starting in September 2000 (see my comment on that above). The pointless changes and instability led me to consider it. Apple finally fixed enough things in OS X that I stuck with it.

 

[zenmacx]

I agree about not focusing too much on vilifying people who have left Apple, and I don't dwell on any of that, but Dye's departure does raise the question about how the chain of command works at Apple, when people who one would think are in a position to override bad decisions often don't. Bad decisions by people like Dye seem to be given a pass, in consideration of their better decisions. That odd chain of command at Apple, for all we know, still remains odd, despite Dye's departure, which may put at risk the opportunities that his departure might otherwise bring, which might result in Apple squandering a lot of those opportunities.

I can relate to your Linux plans, since I began forming similar plans after Apple released the first versions of OS X starting in September 2000 (see my comment on that above). The pointless changes and instability led me to consider it. Apple finally fixed enough things in OS X that I stuck with it.

I concur, you’ve brought up some excellent points.

As a decades long Apple customer and shareholder, I find it particularly discouraging as I know what Apple is capable of.

Working and living in a cross platform environment consisting of Mac, Windows, Linux, Android and iOS, causes me to know and appreciate the differences as well as their pros and cons. That said admittedly I am biased towards Apple.

With a few lines and having to carry both an Android and iPhone daily, I do hope that Apple will sort out the current iOS annoyances. My first preference is to remain a satisfied Apple customer.

 

[Rogifan]

I subscribe to Above Avalon newsletter by Neil Cybart. His take / theory on Alan Dye leaving is definitely something to think about. I probably shouldn't be posting it but I'm doing it anyway because it's a perspective worth reading.

"Here are the facts:

• Alan Dye, who has overseen user interface design at Apple since 2015, is moving to Meta to oversee an all-new creative studio that will be positioned within Reality Labs and tasked with bringing "together design, fashion, and technology to define the next generation of [Meta] products and experiences.” That structure means Dye will be reporting directly to Meta CTO Andrew Bosworth, not Mark Zuckerberg.
• Meta also hired Apple’s Billy Sorrentino who oversaw various design groups within Dye’s portfolio.

As for items that we have good reason to believe are true:

• Dye was not fired by Apple. That doesn’t mean that Dye may have felt like he was getting indirectly pushed out. More on that shortly.
• Zuckerberg is feeling pressure to show more for the approximately $70B spent on Reality Labs to date. Hiring Dye is a far bigger announcement for Meta than losing Dye is for Apple.

My Reaction

My initial reaction to the news is that the move is a good thing for both Apple and Meta, but for vastly different reasons.

For a designer, moving from Apple to Meta is crazy, to put it bluntly. The two companies are very different from each other. If an Apple designer feels that Meta is a better fit for them, then they probably shouldn’t have been working at Apple in the first place. The companies are that different from each other. There would be very little upside for Apple found with having such design talent stay on. Accordingly, my view is that it’s a good thing for Apple that Dye is leaving.

To work for Zuckerberg and Bosworth, who in my view waged a gaslighting campaign against the Apple Vision Pro and visionOS, is quite the choice by Dye (and Sorrentino). As we will talk about shortly, the move suggests to me that Dye was not completely content at Apple.

Some people will go further to say an employee wanting such a change means that they didn’t contribute to Apple in any meaningful way, but that goes down a path that is unfair to the employee in question.

For Meta, given how much they are lacking on the design front, getting their hands on any Apple design talent is an upgrade. There’s a reason why Meta outsourced their smart glasses design to Essilor Luxottica. With that said, positioning Dye as basically your chief designer with oversight over hardware design is a risky bet. It gives off the impression that Zuckerberg is desperate and a bit clueless when it comes to design.

Thoughts on Alan Dye

Alan Dye was one of the key remaining carryovers from the Jony Ive design era at Apple. After working in Apple marketing communications in the late 2000s, including overseeing Apple device packaging, Dye joined Jony’s design team in 2012 around the height of Jony’s influence within Apple. Dye was tasked with overseeing the user interface group beginning with iOS 7 and later watchOS.

Back in the early 2010s, Apple’s industrial design group saw how technology’s evolution (digital assistants, digital apps, wearables, content distribution services) required an expanded design team. That expansion led to Dye gaining power, including during the span when Jony was trying new leadership arrangements to avoid burnout. This photo comes to mind as summing up that period – Dye on Jony’s right was given the VP of user interface design title, Richard Howarth on his left given the VP of industrial design title, with Jony getting the Chief Design Officer title.


At a core level, Dye oversaw user interface for an Apple that knew it needed to constantly move forward and look beyond its current products to remain relevant. Some people – many long-time Mac users – remain bothered by that strategy and would like the company to turn inward. The problem in doing so is that such efforts would likely come at the expense of appealing to the 90% of Apple users who don’t use a Mac, in addition to users new to the Apple ecosystem.

Online Reactions

Reactions to Dye leaving Apple have been all over the place, although there has been a general theme to the madness.

In essence, reaction has been based on one’s location within the Apple ecosystem.

The near-universal reaction within the Mac community, including long-time user interface designers, has been that Dye’s departure is a great thing for Apple. Long-time Apple/Mac pundits who have (unfairly) railed against most of Apple’s newest product categories and initiatives are happy Dye is leaving. X posters who routinely bemoan Apple strategy are dancing in the streets.

Simply put, the Mac community felt like they were being attacked by Dye. The sentiment isn’t too different from how they felt about Jony Ive in the 2010s. At the heart of this reaction is the belief that making macOS more like iOS has hurt the Mac, in addition to many people having gripes about specific design choices here and there. (It intrigues me how Craig Federighi continues to sail by this criticism. Federighi is not some powerless executive who would have trouble getting Cook’s attention. If there was displeasure with Dye’s work, blame should be placed on Federighi in accepting such work, and yet we don’t see that blame materializing.)

Reactions among newer Apple users and those likely to be iPhone-only users tend to be kinder to Dye, positioning his departure as a loss for Apple. That sentiment likely reflects how the average iPhone user agrees with the general direction user interface has taken with Apple. Sure, there have been misses, but we are talking about a massive device ecosystem spanning from devices worn on the body to 30+ inch displays and TV sets.

All in all, the reaction to Dye leaving seems too harsh for what he accomplished.

In assessing the criticism thrown at Dye, there may be some legitimacy found in Dye elevating looks over functionality. There are also several design choices that feel like a step back in which additional actions are needed to accomplish what previously required less work. However, for such an expansive ecosystem, this is nitpicking.

My Theory on What Went Down

What led Alan Dye to view working for Mark Zuckerberg and Andrew Bosworth at Meta more attractive than working for Tim Cook at Apple?

It would not surprise me if some of Dye’s ambitions ultimately led to disillusionment in his current role.

Let’s follow the clues.

In his new role at Meta, Dye will be tasked with overseeing all aspects, including HW, of consumer gadgets. That is an expanded role compared to what he had at Apple. It will be interesting to see if Dye eventually takes on a broader design role across Meta.

Given how Dye is moving to Meta to oversee an entire design team, that kind of move tells me he may have had his eyes set on something more at Apple – say a “Chief Design Officer” or SVP design role, overseeing the entire Apple design team.

Dye was coming off of visonOS being a major win on the user interface front. As someone who has used Apple Vision Pro since Day 1, it is magical device for a variety of reasons including the user interface.

If the goal was to continue gaining power within Apple, the structure Apple put it place after Jony left wasn’t a good one for Dye. With Jeff Williams overseeing the entire design team, there was no clear path for Dye to continue his ascend to grab control of the entire Apple design group. Instead, we saw Apple maintain the power structure of Dye sharing power with his equal of sorts in an industrial designer. To have Jeff Williams, who had overseen the design team for years, retire presented something of a leadership vacuum. Tim Cook is reportedly now overseeing the design team.

Dye also likely saw an opening given an influx of new design talent which would have sided with him over other factions.

Apple had been deliberate in not moving down the road of having a Chief Design Officer after trying it with Jony in the 2010s, likely due to avoiding an all-out revolt among some (SW) teams. Having a Chief Design Officer would signal a far more empowered designer / design team that in essence could better overrule engineering. The setup Apple has now is much more supportive of a collaborative effort.

One possible timeline of events involving Dye would have looked like the following:

- Dye gauges the temperature in the room regarding a design promotion but either gets ignored or turned down by Apple senior leaders. Simply put, Apple’s inner circle probably wasn’t having any of it, and there was no sign of things changing following a CEO transition possibly beginning as soon as 2026.
- With his ego having taken a hit and with growing doubts as to where to go from here from an Apple leadership perspective, Dye may have begun more seriously entertaining offers by Meta and other companies. Such offers, which certainly would be accompanied by significant compensation packages, would give Dye exactly what he was looking for: a Chief Design Officer role of sorts leading an entire design studio including HW.
- Apple’s senior leaders would have known change may be in the air with Dye given his desire for greater power, so they lined up a successor who wouldn’t be loyal to Dye to prevent further poaching. The fact that Dye’s successor has more, not less, experience at Apple than Dye is certainly a choice.

There is no evidence to suggest that Dye was fired or pushed out directly. Would we be more accurate in saying Dye was indirectly pushed out by not getting something that he was looking for, feeling disenchanted, and finding that something at Meta? Maybe."

It’s all speculation. But reading Gruber’s follow up post (abs some of what Cybart says here) the real sin is that Dye took a job with Meta. In the Apple punditry world Meta isn’t good enough to shine Apple’s shoes. So it Dye is leaving for Meta that means he never belonged at Apple in the first place. Honestly I think it’s a pretty snobbish attitude. And Cybart is butthurt because Vision Pro is mostly a failure (no matter how much he thinks it’s the future of computing).

 

[Rogifan]

Alan Dye literally had NO design experience. I would say that he still doesn't, even after all these years, because every interface he touched got worse.

The question then is how was he able to remain in that job for as long as he did (6 years past Jony Ive leaving the company)? I don’t care how good he was at politics it’s was failure of leadership if he really was that bad (and disliked by the rank and file).

 

[canukstorm]

This is much bigger deal than Alan Dye leaving

https://twitter.com/x/status/1997352821453447399

 

[turbineseaplane]

This is much bigger deal than Alan Dye leaving

https://twitter.com/x/status/1997352821453447399

It's time to hit the panic button if this happens.

🚨

This would be a five alarm fire.

 

[canukstorm]

It's time to hit the panic button if this happens.

🚨

This would be a five alarm fire.

"To retain him, Apple has offered him ‘substantial’ pay packages and more responsibilities. They’ve floated the possibility of promoting him to Chief Technology Officer, making him Apple’s second most powerful executive. Reportedly, Srouji also ‘would prefer not to work under a different CEO.’"

Report: Johny Srouji contemplating leaving Apple, considering career elsewhere - 9to5Mac

According to a new report from Bloomberg, Apple’s hardware technologies SVP Johny Srouji is ‘seriously’ considering leaving the company. He’s...

9to5mac.com

 

[turbineseaplane]

Reportedly, Srouji also ‘would prefer not to work under a different CEO.’"

Other than Tim?
Ugh ...

Tim, other than Dye who already left, is the spot I most want some change.

Beyond money, I wonder if what Apple is doing (or not) product wise has become stale?

Top talent wants to "do" ... and it's possible it's become not so stimulating to just keep doing the same iterations and bumps to the same products as ever.

 

[canukstorm]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1997365852757471553

 

[canukstorm]

Other than Tim?
Ugh ...

Tim, other than Dye who already left, is the spot I most want some change.

Beyond money, I wonder if what Apple is doing (or not) product wise has become stale?

Top talent wants to "do" ... and it's possible it's become not so stimulating to just keep doing the same iterations and bumps to the same products as ever.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1997366714749862008

 

[antiprotest]

Even Justin Bieber knows design better than Apple, as most ordinary users do. Don't live in denial or delusion. Apple was good at design, but Apple has not been good at design for years now. And it has been getting worse. If your reflex immediately goes to "You should try Android," as many do, you are actually proving the point -- you cannot even attempt to defend Apple unless you appeal to something that you consider even worse.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1997125645437194682

 

[CasualFanboy]

It's actually surprising that it took so long for this turmoil to crank up. Tim Cook isn't a strong leader, or exceptional in any way.

 

[Arran]

It's actually surprising that it took so long for this turmoil to crank up. Tim Cook isn't a strong leader, or exceptional in any way.

It could be they've enjoyed being allowed to simply coast along under Cook (easy money) but with his rumored departure they'd be expected to start pedaling again?

So may as well jump ship now. The surest way to get a raise is to move.

 

[canukstorm]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1997426963577749847

 

[turbineseaplane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1997426963577749847

So refreshing to see and more and more folks finally saying this out loud.

 

[ulu]

Dye should have have been canned long ago, or better yet never been given a job that he clearly was never fit for. So now 10 years past due, good riddance, let him go over to Meta and screw them up even more.

 

[Tenkaykev]

I suspect it to be tempered a bit and go more of an almost flat version that's much more accessible

I see what you did there...

 

[nmt1900]

It is hard to remember if any of these "fashion-related-industry-related" hires on Apple have ben able to to do any real good. If you want to "fashionalize" the product that is not a fashion accessory then it usually won't work. "Fashionalizing" human interface design is one most obvious example of this.