John Hancock Offers Apple Watch Series 3 to Vitality Life Insurance Customers for Just $25

[definitive]

I think the title of the article is misleading. It doesn't sound the watch is "just $25".

 

[neuropsychguy]

Wasn't Aetna supposed to do the same? I read that a small segment of customers received Apple Watch for free, but I have not heard details on when it will be expanded.

Aetna is supposed to roll that out early next year if the rumors are to be believed: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/14/app...gs-to-bring-apple-watch-to-millions-more.html

 

[wigby]

This reminds me of the trend these days where car insurance wants to give you a “discount” on premiums if you agree to install a tracking device in your car. You’re sacrificing your privacy and lining their data-driven pocket books for such a small trade.

Wouldn't that also be the Android business model?

 

[mattopotamus]

You just stated reasons why I would not want this device. I do travel after midnight many times for legitimate reasons (and I don't drink ever) and so they would penalize me for that. And you say that they cannot increase your rates only lower them. My answer to that is....For Now! Soon they will put in wording that will allow them to raise your rates based on braking, speed, and time of day you drive.

They are not doing this to save you money! They are preparing to collect more money from you but let you get used to it under the guise of saving you money at first.

Great, so it would not work for you. Like this article, it is really nice for those that can take advantage of it.

 

[SigEp265]

Geico did something similar to me, I got rear ended, police report even declared it was the other driver's fault and they shot my rates up and blamed the cause of accident on me. I found out Geico likes to do this to make their money back even if the driver wasn't at fault.

Does Geico have a little OBDII plug that monitors your miles / speed?

 

[MadeMyDay]

I did that with progressive and saved 30% off my annual premium. It was easily the best decision I have made in terms for car insurance. 30% is anything but a small trade, $750 for two cars every 6 months with full coverage.

Sounds good now. Wait until you file a claim and the insurance company uses data about your driving over 25 mph in residential zones and rolling stops to hike your rates based on reckless driving.

 

[Delorean2006]

Does Geico have a little OBDII plug that monitors your miles / speed?

I have no idea, I wasn't sure, the car was inspected at the body shop, I couldn't stay because I had to go to work, but, I wasn't moving when I was hit.

 

[blacktape242]

is this the LTE watch? if so i just might!

 

[cerote]

You have to look at it in the long run.

Problem is that "indirect discount for people who share data" becomes "direct discount" quite quickly which is the same as "penalty for people who don't".

Calling it incentive for one thing or penalty for another is mostly a philosophical difference.

This is exactly what the health insurance is like in my work. First several years you got a discount. Then magically now it turned into if you don’t meet them you have to pay more.

 

[mattopotamus]

Sounds good now. Wait until you file a claim and the insurance company uses data about your driving over 25 mph in residential zones and rolling stops to hike your rates based on reckless driving.

Good thing it has not been in my car for 2 years and I still get the discount. Also good I don't drive 50 in 25mph zones.

 

[Volusia]

Wasn't Aetna supposed to do the same? I read that a small segment of customers received Apple Watch for free, but I have not heard details on when it will be expanded.

1. I am on a survey group for Aetna. Several months ago they did an online "group think" for those of us who own and use the  Watch. They asked what apps we used and how we used them then asked if we would be interested in a program like this.

 

[tech3475]

is this the LTE watch? if so i just might!

I believe you have to pay more for it, judging by the article.

 

[caerulea]

Floor stickers and posters are all over the place at my work today (I work at Manulife)

 

[Kabeyun]

I don't really see a downside here. This looks to be shockingly forward thinking for an American insurance company.

Downside: with built-in cellular and GPS, the AW3 is perfectly capable of letting them know whenever you’re at the McDonald’s drive through instead of working out.

 

[blacktape242]

I believe you have to pay more for it, judging by the article.

still probably worth looking at!

 

[tooloud10]

again 30% is a lot more than a few bucks. I drive safe, why the hell do I care if they monitor that. Take the tinfoil off.

This isn't a conspiracy theory, it's all pretty easy to follow logic.

You leave it in your car for 6 months. After 1 month you get an initial savings and after 6 months it's locked in. I have had the discount for a few years. They monitor your speed, your breaking patterns, and the time of day you drive (midnight to 4am are the only times that "hurt" you). It cannot increase your rates only lower them.

Think about your last sentence there. That's exactly the point--they raise 'regular' premiums to an astronomical amount, and then get you to hand over your data in order to bring it to a fair amount. The whole time they're watching and judging you based on data that may or may not have any basis in reality. Hell, you even acknowledge that driving during certain times are a red flag to them, even if you've done nothing wrong.
[doublepost=1508803490][/doublepost]

Sounds good now. Wait until you file a claim and the insurance company uses data about your driving over 25 mph in residential zones and rolling stops to hike your rates based on reckless driving.

Yep, wait until the day that the guy gets into an accident where another party is injured/killed, lawsuits start getting tossed around, and your friendly insurance company trots out the data that shows that you exceeded the speed limit at some point on 94% of days that you operated a vehicle and that you have a higher than average rate of hard braking events.

But no, they'd *never* do that...would they? I can't believe how so many people think that big corporations and/or the government are looking out for them. Stop being so gullible.

 

[Verita]

I don't really see a downside here. This looks to be shockingly forward thinking for an American insurance company.

Shocking is right. How dare they innovate!!

 

[coffeemadmanUK]

Vitality have been doing this in the UK for a while now, both on health insurance and life insurance:

https://www.vitality.co.uk/rewards/partners/active-rewards/apple-watch/

Currently £0 upfront payment on the Series 3.

 

[Val-kyrie]

This reminds me of the trend these days where car insurance wants to give you a “discount” on premiums if you agree to install a tracking device in your car. You’re sacrificing your privacy and lining their data-driven pocket books for such a small trade.

Most companies only promise the possibility of a discount.

A "tracking" device that just gives them diagnostic information from the vehicle including speed, time of day, and hard breaking. Oh the horror.

You would realize the horror of your rates went up due to "hard breaking" because you were avoiding accidents in a highly congested urban environment.

Why?

If the supermarket sold milk for $3/jug, but offered me a free jug of milk if I just tell them the cereal I pour it on, sure!

Why shouldn't the customer be allowed to choose if their private information can be sold for a price? I feel the $3 is more than enough to compensate for them knowing I eat Cap'n Crunch. Someone else might not think so, but why can't there be that option?

Wait until the grocery store sells that information to the health insurers and your $3 box of cereal costs you $30/month in increased health insurance premiums.

Right, it 'just' gives them 100% more data than they had just a few years ago. The camel's nose is under the tent, as they say, and soon they'll take just a few more pieces of data (say, location) and change the billing so that it's unaffordable to not accept their terms when demanding this data.

Certainly others can see the direction this is going, no? The problem with the "but I have nothing to hide" argument is that once they're seeing all of your data and storing it indefinitely, it's trivially easy for them to find all kinds of correlations should something happen down the road. How many times will it take you going 1-2 mph over the speed limit before your insurance company sees you as a 'habitual speeder'? How many days of not closing all your Apple Watch rings will it take before you're labeled as a 'lethargic customer'?

Folks, you're not getting a 'free' Apple Watch so you can dictate iMessages to your friends, they're doing it because they know it will eventually improve their profits.

Yes. Too many people and companies incorrectly draw conclusions from correlations. Correlation is not the same thing as causation!

E.g., if I were to do research for a paper to argue against the Neo-Nazi movement and someone were to analyze the data, they might incorrectly conclude that because a greater number of my sources reflect the perspective of Neo-Nazis that I myself am a proponent of it when in reality I need more sources to better reflect and argue against that ideology because I am not part of it.

They do. I've had life insurance through John Hancock for a while and used their app with a Fitbit and then my original Apple Watch. They really just use it to track intensity/duration of activity. I don't think their app needs to run on the watch itself at any point (it didn't used to, at least), the app on the phone just pulls activity from the Health vault.

I'm considering signing up for this, as it does add significant benefit to their Vitality program. I'm relatively young, so the first year I tracked everything and got a fairly good activity rating. I ended up saving about $7 on my premiums (for the year) since they were pretty low already and didn't bother doing it from then on. I seem to remember that 500 points is a lot for them if they have to be all fitness related unless they've changed the scale. Going from member you can earn 10/20/30 points per day depending on your activity level, with 30 points being pretty uncommon for me. It doesn't exactly leave a lot of slack, so if you're going to do it it sounds like you need to wear the watch every day and really keep it up. I need to do some napkin math, but if you have a tendency to take day-long flights or long car trips it may take some effort to hit the target.

Wait until you suffer a life-long injury and are limited in your ability to engage in certain exercises.

Sure, that's how it starts. Consider how close we are to this basically being compulsory if it would already cost you about 43% more than you're paying now to avoid it. Soon those not wanting to report their data will be priced out of the market--they just need a few more sheep that care more about saving a few bucks than they do about their privacy and the rest of us won't have a choice.

Don't forget that the discount comes after the rates have been hiked for those who refuse to comply. You are not really receiving a discount but rather what used to be considered the regular rate in exchange for your data--data which may be misconstrued and misinterpreted.

The insurance "discount" is akin to seeing an item on sale or clearance for $30. The sign says the item is discounted $100 from its original price, but a Google search shows the item retails between $25 and $45 elsewhere. The sale or clearance price may or may not be cheaper but the savings has been exaggerated so you feel better about your purchase.
[doublepost=1508854032][/doublepost]

But they’re right. If you were doing the speed limit, you wouldn’t have been in that location at that time and the accident likely would not have occurred.

At 1-2 mph over the speed limit, any car is within its tolerance for calibration. Analog or digital, speedometers may be off by 1-2mph, just like speed detectors may be off by 1-2 mph. For this reason, at least in some states, speed detectors are required to be calibrated at least annually. This is also the reason most law enforcement officers do not write tickets for anything under 5mph.

again 30% is a lot more than a few bucks. I drive safe, why the hell do I care if they monitor that. Take the tinfoil off.

You leave it in your car for 6 months. After 1 month you get an initial savings and after 6 months it's locked in. I have had the discount for a few years. They monitor your speed, your breaking patterns, and the time of day you drive (midnight to 4am are the only times that "hurt" you). It cannot increase your rates only lower them.

Many insurance companies increase rates year-after-year, even if the driver has no accidents or tickets. Can you guarantee the increase is unrelated to a driver's refusal to provide the insurance company with driving habits?

Although certain activities (at-fault accidents and traffic tickets) will certainly increase your insurance rates, the insurance companies are not required to divulge how the come up with your insurance rate. Much like one's credit score, the sauce is a secret.

Many of those devices were revealed to also send GPS data which is why folks were in a snit.

As for this, I say if the program is completely upfront about what information it’s receiving and folks can opt in and out as they wish (even if it means losing a premium discount or whatever) then there’s no issue. Now if it turns out they are gathering some information they didn’t state upfront rake them over that appropriately, even to the point of lawsuit if needed.

Please see:
[="Wowereit, post: 25262682, member: 1015491"]You have to look at it in the long run.

Problem is that "indirect discount for people who share data" becomes "direct discount" quite quickly which is the same as "penalty for people who don't".

Calling it incentive for one thing or penalty for another is mostly a philosophical difference.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

It’s called precedent. Firstly, you are saying it’s ok to exchange privacy for money. Soon that will be required just to get the $3/jug rate, and if you opt out, you pay a penalty price of $4/jug. And no one will complain because $3 is such a better deal than $4, and it still looks a lot like the old price on the sticker (even though the true old price was $2.25, but marketing made sure you never viewed it that way).

Secondly, by agreeing with the idea of selling your privacy, you start down the path of selling more and more of it. Originally they just wanted to know what cereal you poured the milk on, but soon that price “discount” will require you to share the ratio of milk to cereal, where you bought the cereal from, where you did the pouring at, how many people in your family are eating cereal and milk, their ages, when they eat it, if they watch tv or read news while eating it, etc. And then they sell this information to other companies which you might not trust nearly as much as your friendly supermarket or milk provider.

This is exactly what is now happening in China. A person's online habits are continuously monitored and that person is assigned a social score. If a person's score is too low, they are barred from certain if not all institutions of higher education and denied jobs as well. China is controlling their people's beliefs and habits through socio-economic retribution.

 

[Ryanclbryant]

Appears to be available in Canada too - after seeing this I reached out to see if my existing policy is eligible. I have a series 0 that could use updating.

FWIW I would never be so naïve as to claim that insurance companies don’t benefit from the data, they do. But frankly their main benefit is encouraging their policy holders to live better life styles. I’m working through a sleep apnea diagnosis right now - something that by the end of the diagnosis and necessary prescriptions will cost my insurer over $3000. If I had lived a better life style and not become over weight this might not be a problem that I would have to deal with.

 

[Phonephreak]

A "tracking" device that just gives them diagnostic information from the vehicle including speed, time of day, and hard breaking. Oh the horror.

Do you work for the maker of these devices? My girl friend uses one and she can track her days travels easily online
[doublepost=1508923904][/doublepost]

Appears to be available in Canada too - after seeing this I reached out to see if my existing policy is eligible. I have a series 0 that could use updating.

FWIW I would never be so naïve as to claim that insurance companies don’t benefit from the data, they do. But frankly their main benefit is encouraging their policy holders to live better life styles. I’m working through a sleep apnea diagnosis right now - something that by the end of the diagnosis and necessary prescriptions will cost my insurer over $3000. If I had lived a better life style and not become over weight this might not be a problem that I would have to deal with.

So are u saying that if you had an Apple Watch years ago you would have changed your life style?

 

[Ryanclbryant]

So are u saying that if you had an Apple Watch years ago you would have changed your life style?

Not exactly, no - I have a Series 0; it did change my lifestyle a little but I did not have much of an incentive to keep filling my rings (except for digital achievements). If I had more incentive; like say, $39 for a new Series 3 and $0 per month just to bust my butt - hell yes that'll change my lifestyle.
[doublepost=1508940770][/doublepost]Link for those in Canada:
https://www.manulife.ca/for-you/insurance/vitality/apple-watch.html

 

[radicool]

Manulife is a Canadian company.

The Vitality program originated with Discovery Health in South Africa. They've offered the Apple Watch here for a few years (along with numerous other "healthy lifestyle" benefits). They "lease" the program to multiple insurers around the world.

https://www.discovery.co.za/vitality/join-today

 

[Macalicious2011]

Vitality have been doing this in the UK for a while now, both on health insurance and life insurance:

https://www.vitality.co.uk/rewards/partners/active-rewards/apple-watch/

Currently £0 upfront payment on the Series 3.

Yupp. I ordered one for £0 and gave it to my girlfriend. Now she needs an iPhone but we will wait until the iPhone X is cheaper next year. The 7 and 8 Plus don’t appeal to us as the are bulkier ad have inferior screens to our Samsung phones.

 

[Yoitsjustme]

Life insurance provider John Hancock has announced that new and existing members of its Vitality program can receive an Apple Watch Series 3 with GPS only for an initial payment of just $25 plus tax. Additional fees apply for customers who choose a cellular model or other more expensive models.

The cost of the Apple Watch is actually split up into 24 monthly payments, which can be paid off by walking, running, biking, swimming, or completing various other exercises. Vitality members must earn at least 500 fitness-related Vitality Points per month over two years to avoid owing any of the instalments.

By connecting the Vitality Today app to Apple's Health app and confirming data sharing, customers can earn Vitality Points for Light, Standard, and Advanced Workouts towards the monthly goal. Customers can share steps measured by their iPhone or Apple Watch, as well as active calories from the Apple Watch.

The Vitality program is available with select John Hancock life insurance policies in the United States. The free Apple Watch Series 3 offer will be available starting November 6 everywhere except New York.

John Hancock, owned by Manulife Financial, first started offering Apple Watches to a limited number of members last year. About half of the people who received the device achieved their monthly goals and did not pay for the device, John Hancock senior vice president Brooks Tingle told CNBC.

John Hancock is the first life insurance provider to offer the Apple Watch at a discounted rate to its members. Health insurance provider Aetna offers a similar program to its employees, and may expand it to 23 million customers soon.

Article Link: John Hancock Offers Apple Watch Series 3 to Vitality Life Insurance Customers for Just $25

[doublepost=1512857178][/doublepost]Has anyone replied that it is the most stupid thing a person can do to buy a whole life insurance policy?. Do your homework. Buy a super cheap term policy and then start investing the delta difference in premiums into an IRA or other investment. It’s pretty easy to see why insurance companies are providing iwatches. Because YOU are paying for them. PS. I was once a licensed insurance agent. And registered investment representative.