'Joint Venture' Small Business Program Officially Launched

[BrianBaughn]

I'm an ACN member. I don't know of many small business folks that like to take their own time toting a 27" iMac down to the Apple Store.

There's a lot of holes in the service to be plugged...and I am that plug.

By the way, it looks like $499 per year for up to five "systems", but if your five systems consists of, for instance, three iMacs, two MacBook Pros, and five iPhones then your total bill for two years would be $1643.00 as you would have to buy AppleCare on all of the devices to be under warranty for the second year, a pre-requisite of the JointVenture program.

But you do get three two-hour training sessions per year at the Store.

 

[jnc]

By the way, it looks like $499 per year for up to five "systems", but if your five systems consists of, for instance, three iMacs, two MacBook Pros, and five iPhones then your total bill for two years would be $1643.00 as you would have to buy AppleCare on all of the devices to be under warranty for the second year, a pre-requisite of the JointVenture program.

AppleCare a prerequisite? Then how would you, say, add existing systems over a year old and thus AppleCare-ineligible to your Joint Venture membership?

Sure, extended AppleCare would cover repair costs in event of manufacturer error but Joint Venture has the loaner service / part allocation over the phone / training angles completely separate from that.

AppleCare as a Jointventure Pre-requisite is a crappy strong-arm and deterrent imo, if that's the case.

What about incidents AppleCare won't cover? You spill coffee on a 16 month old MacBook Pro and you'll appreciate the priority service of JointVenture, but that pre-requisite AppleCare is useless - you're still paying accidental repair costs. Yikes.

 

[BrianBaughn]

Here are the terms:

http://www.apple.com/retail/jointventure/terms.html

 

[Mildewy]

I'm an ACN member. I don't know of many small business folks that like to take their own time toting a 27" iMac down to the Apple Store.

There's a lot of holes in the service to be plugged...and I am that plug.

By the way, it looks like $499 per year for up to five "systems", but if your five systems consists of, for instance, three iMacs, two MacBook Pros, and five iPhones then your total bill for two years would be $1643.00 as you would have to buy AppleCare on all of the devices to be under warranty for the second year, a pre-requisite of the JointVenture program.

But you do get three two-hour training sessions per year at the Store.

"Product Eligibility. Apple reserves the right to test, evaluate and pre-approve any Apple products for which you intend to register as Registered Apple Products and Apple has the right to deny services for products in its sole discretion for reasons including, but not limited to, the following: (a) products that are damaged or improperly functioning at the start of the Annual Term; (b) products that have been modified to alter functionality or capability without the written permission of Apple; (c) products in which any Apple serial number has been removed or defaced; (d) products containing counterfeit or non-Apple approved parts; and (e) products containing malicious or harmful code (“malware”) or unlicensed software. In addition, Apple reserves the right to refuse Joint Venture Services for Apple products that are more than five years old at the time of your service request."



Where does it say you must have Apple Care?

 

[mmcxiiad]

I'm an ACN member. I don't know of many small business folks that like to take their own time toting a 27" iMac down to the Apple Store.

There's a lot of holes in the service to be plugged...and I am that plug.

By the way, it looks like $499 per year for up to five "systems", but if your five systems consists of, for instance, three iMacs, two MacBook Pros, and five iPhones then your total bill for two years would be $1643.00 as you would have to buy AppleCare on all of the devices to be under warranty for the second year, a pre-requisite of the JointVenture program.

But you do get three two-hour training sessions per year at the Store.

I don't know if you actually read the terms, but very clearly it states what is considered a system:

Registered Apple Products. Your initial Joint Venture membership provides Joint Venture Services for up to five (5) “Systems”. For the purposes of these Terms & Conditions, a single System may consist of any of the following types and quantities of Apple products:

One (1) Mac Computer,
Two (2) Apple Cinema Displays,
One (1) iPhone,
One (1) iPod,
One (1) iPad, and
The following Apple-branded hardware peripherals associated with the System: mouse, keyboard, trackpad and storage device.

Based on this information, it would cost $500 per year for the computers and iphones you listed. Out of curiosity, how much would you charge to set up 5 new computers moving everything from the old ones?

I realize, and appreciate that this service that apple offers may infringe on some of the work you do. On the other hand, do you really want to do this? Do you really want to minimize what you do to migration of data? I guess one takes the jobs that pay the money. But my point is, Apple is not trying to take over the heavy lifting (so to speak). They are helping people get their old stuff on the new computer.

For what it is, I don't think it is a bad deal or overpriced. In fact I think it is quite reasonable for a business.... especially if the computers being used are laptops or mac mini's (then they aren't schlepping the imacs or mac pros to the store as I agree with you that this is unrealistic).

 

[jnc]

Here are the terms:

http://www.apple.com/retail/jointventure/terms.html

That link didn't support anything you said about AppleCare being a pre requisite, lol.

"Please note, however, that the Stay Running and the other Joint Venture Services outlined above are not product warranties or an extended service contract, but rather a program that provides additional access to technical support resources and services only (e.g., callbacks, appointments, training, Loaners and Any Time Tune-up). Your rights under these Joint Venture Terms & Conditions are separate and distinct from any other rights you may have under Apple’s limited product warranty and/or APP and/or by law. For instance, although you may be entitled to the Equipment Loaner Service under these Joint Venture Terms & Conditions, if one of your Registered Apple Products is no longer covered under warranty or an extended service contract, such as APP, you will be responsible for parts and service fees as shown on the documentation and Repair Terms & Conditions presented to you when authorizing Apple to repair your Registered Apple Product."

In fact, that passage specifically says that Joint Venture is a separate and distinct service to AppleCare. As I thought. *cough* Does your business require a legal proofreader? I'm an available LLB. *cough*

 

[mind-for-hire]

Huh

That link didn't support anything you said about AppleCare being a pre requisite, lol.



In fact, that passage specifically says that Joint Venture is a separate and distinct service to AppleCare. As I thought. *cough* Does your business require a legal proofreader? I'm an available LLB. *cough*

@JNC: Doesn't this spell it out pretty well? I mean, in clear English, the first line reads that businesses can only register for it at the time of purchase. IE: no existing systems that you have are eligible, right?

"Joint Venture membership is available to business customers only at the time of purchase of an Apple Macintosh computer (“Mac Computer”) from an Apple Retail Store or from 1-800-MY-APPLE."

Am I missing something? You're the proof-reader.

EDIT: Here's something else I found... "Apparently the $499 is in addition to a three-year AppleCare plan, but JointVenture will get “Prioritized Genius Bar” (which lets small businesses cut to the head of the line instead of waiting with the masses as they now do), phone calls to Genius Bar techs, loaner computers for repairs that take more than 24 hours and “customized workshops” where staff can learn Mac-oriented ways to grow their business and get the most out of their hardware."

 

[jnc]

"Joint Venture membership is available to business customers only at the time of purchase of an Apple Macintosh computer (“Mac Computer”) from an Apple Retail Store or from 1-800-MY-APPLE."

Am I missing something? You're the proof-reader.

Purchasing the membership isn't the issue here though - I appreciate that you have to be buying at least one new Mac in order to be able to do so. What I wonder is if additional existing systems can be roped into Joint Venture. Say, you've had a Mac Pro for 2 years; and you're about to get two new ones plus a Joint Venture membership. Is the Mac Pro left out in the cold because it doesn't have AppleCare, then?

It would be silly imo for Apple to only support businesses buying Macs from this point onwards. Surely they should be able to connect their existing equipment and systems into this membership if they're buying into this thing.

EDIT: Here's something else I found... "Apparently the $499 is in addition to a three-year AppleCare plan

Where'd you see that "in addition" part? Seems to go against the whole "Joint Venture Terms & Conditions are separate and distinct from any other rights you may have under Apple’s limited product warranty and/or APP and/or by law" bit in their T&C.

What a mess. I'm not getting paid enough to sift through this, at any rate...

 

[BrianBaughn]

I am wrong about the warranty pre-requisite in the 2nd year. The first year would be warranted, of course, by default.

So, in the 2nd year a participant would get all of the JointVenture services, but would have to pay full price for any repair services. I'm not even sure what the Apple Store charges for non-warranted repair services or if they do them at all. I get a few calls from customers who are still at the store with what the Genius has determined is a dead hard drive on a machine out of warranty. I don't think he'd point them to the ACN website if they could replace it through the store.

So, on an un-warranted computer in your second year of JointVenture, you could jump ahead in line at the Genius Bar to be told that you need to call an ACN or Apple Service Center. And you get no loaner. But you could still get your data transferred to a new computer if they talk you into replacing your "old" one and you pay the "uplift" fee for the new computer. If they are willing to try to get the data off of the old one.

 

[BrianBaughn]

Based on this information, it would cost $500 per year for the computers and iphones you listed. Out of curiosity, how much would you charge to set up 5 new computers moving everything from the old ones?

I realize, and appreciate that this service that apple offers may infringe on some of the work you do. On the other hand, do you really want to do this? Do you really want to minimize what you do to migration of data? I guess one takes the jobs that pay the money. But my point is, Apple is not trying to take over the heavy lifting (so to speak). They are helping people get their old stuff on the new computer.

For what it is, I don't think it is a bad deal or overpriced. In fact I think it is quite reasonable for a business.... especially if the computers being used are laptops or mac mini's (then they aren't schlepping the imacs or mac pros to the store as I agree with you that this is unrealistic).

Yes, I would charge a little bit more than what each computer would cost for the entire JointVenture program just to do the setup. It's comparing apples to me, really...I'd be at the owner's business. It is these introductory-type jobs that lead to a business relationship between Mac owners and ACN members.

 

[mmcxiiad]

Yes, I would charge a little bit more than what each computer would cost for the entire JointVenture program just to do the setup. It's comparing apples to me, really...I'd be at the owner's business. It is these introductory-type jobs that lead to a business relationship between Mac owners and ACN members.

I understand that, and fully agree that for some businesses they need a ACN - their needs are more complex or they just may prefer someone to come to the computers (instead of dragging them to the store).

On the other hand, there are other businesses that may not need an ACN. Their needs may be very simple and especially if they have a laptop or a mac mini, bringing it into the store isn't a big deal. If really all they need is the services described here, then for what it is it is a good value. Especially if they are switching from a pc to a mac and they get a few intro classes.

This is who I think it the primary target for this service. A small business limited needs, doing a platform change. Or a small business with limited needs who just needs data moved over to the new machine. Getting priority genius bar would be a perk too for this type of customer.

 

[mind-for-hire]

Found this at 9to5mac.com

Here's a good behind-the-scenes glimpse into the world of a former Genius Bar worker. TLDR: It was a stressful enough job before Joint Venture came into the picture. Not a good signal for the future...

Note: the following is his quote taken directly from 9to5mac.com. In other words, I did not write this myself.

"integ · 6 days ago
As a former Genius, I can tell you that the Genius crew is already stretched to the limit with demands from managers and higher-ups at Apple. The bars are frequently behind, with people waiting for both their scheduled appointments and walk-ins that show up and expect service. So now there's this new service, which if it takes off, removes yet another Genius from either the repair crew or the Genius Bar crew...AND now there will be someone answering phones and getting involved in lengthy tech support situations. (To be fair: I'm not clear if the phone calls are via your local Apple store or whether those are farmed out to a more Applecare-like facility specifically designed for these business calls.) So now you've got business people who are expected to be treated like kings, above and beyond the standard customer base? Combining both business and retail customers together at the same bar, at the same time, without dedicated personnel, seems like a recipe for disaster.

The computers being handed out as loaners won't contain the specific apps that various users are using, much less the specific documents, and even less the private stuff people are working on in their small companies. Is Apple going to take the time to image their defunct computer over to the loaner? What if it's a toasted hard drive? Are they going to have a bunch of pre-installed apps on the loaners in hopes that the business customers find something they can work with for a day? Are they going to have a way set up for any work the business customer gets done on the loaner to be transferred back over to the fixed computer when it's ready? The loaners don't seem like they're going to do anybody any good except under the most generic of circumstances.

The concept is sound, but I'm guessing that the actual implementation is going to be pretty rough for awhile. As I said, the Geniuses are already pushed to the limit with zero downtime and too much to do. So unless Apple is going to hire people specifically for this position, I can only see it dinging negatively on all of Apple's metrics. (Metrics are a set of standards Apple uses to rate the effectiveness and overall customer satisfaction for every transaction, every repair, every appointment, etc. Departments at the stores live and die by these metrics results.)

There is also going to be a very real issue with the Apple Consultant's Network as described above. People in these networks have literally worked for years to establish entire businesses around doing tech support for small companies. With one move, this decades-old infrastructure is now put at odds with Apple directly. For a small yet very important sub-segment of the Apple population at large, this could mean some very real issues with income and job security.

I hope Apple is willing to grow and iron out the bumps in the road here, because as it stands, this new venture seems like it's going to create more issues than it solves.

My two cents.."

 

[Digital Skunk]

A few years back (2007 i think) i signed up with pro care to get help with FCP and DVD studio. It was listed on the list of apps that were included in procare training. When i got there, I was all but told that no one at my local store was really good with either one.

I doubt much has changed since then, but to help cover them selves, apple has removed all proapps from the list of apps covered on one-to-one. I HIGHLY doubt the JV program will cover anything that one-to one doesn't cover.

Sadly I agree. I think JV is more just an upgraded version of Pro-Care with a little bit more Genius Bar treats injected into it.

It will be invaluable for some businesses, but I doubt it will catch on beyond the basic tech needs of a SOHO/small business needs for the day to day. I don't see them helping me set up an intranet in a multimedia oriented company, or helping teach the higher end software titles.

Please tell us where you can find someone who'll work for $499 per annum, or anywhere offering a year's tailored software training (not just "networks") plus tech support for a 5 person team for that amount?

Yeah, thought so.

I think Natti was referring to sending someone to a tech school to learn some skills over spending that money on Apple's JV service. Coving 5 machines is a moot point IMHO. They never enforced the 3 machine policy of Pro Care, and I doubt that any one person would be fine with handling 3 machines, then have a problem when 2 more come into the mix.

My department has me covering 44 Mac Pros, 7 iMacs, a server for the intranet and a few garbage PCs. I have no problems managing them even when a handful of them are broken.

 

[DjEboy]

Big waste of time from personal experience.

All they want you to do is go to the basic in store workshops that are consumer based. A business does not need to sit through a class on how to show grandma photos. Or show your photos online with mobile me.

Then try to set up a specialized training, none of the store employees want to do it. Then you show up for training and they tell you to look at the videos online, or no try this in store workshop.

Sorry to say the retail store staff do not know anything about a small business and none of them seem to want to work.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Big waste of time from personal experience.

All they want you to do is go to the basic in store workshops that are consumer based. A business does not need to sit through a class on how to show grandma photos. Or show your photos online with mobile me.

Then try to set up a specialized training, none of the store employees want to do it. Then you show up for training and they tell you to look at the videos online, or no try this in store workshop.

Sorry to say the retail store staff do not know anything about a small business and none of them seem to want to work.

That's typical of most of the Apple Retail Stores I've been in. I hear the training spaces on the West Coast are far larger and better equipped than in the Mid or East Coasts.

None of the stores I've been to on the east save for New York and the one in Boston (which I haven't been to, only seen in pics) have large enough spaces dedicated and equipped for workshops, staffed with people that know it all from Finder to Xsan . . . . which is what a good portion of SOHOs/SMBs want.

 

[DjEboy]

Your exactly correct Digital Skunk.

Unfortunately the business team could not even walk me through the best options for a SMB back up of data (5 systems all new macs) and the best options for file sharing which is the most basic foundation.

Sure I could spend hours of research (which I did) but the point of purchasing Joint Venture to get my business started on mac was to show value in my saved time.

Great concept, poor execution. Now hopefully I can get a refund on the Joint Venture Membership.