Judge Dismisses Apple Trademark Claims Against Amazon's Appstore

HiRez

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,805
1,697
Western US
I'm an Apple fan, Apple user, and Apple shareholder, but I support this. Copyrighting vague software processes is bad enough, when you start copyrighting generic words and word combinations, you've gone too far. (This is a lot more generic than a company name, but I agree Amazon's 1 Click and others should also be invalidated.)
 

pgiguere1

macrumors 68020
May 28, 2009
2,157
1,081
Montreal, Canada
Stop digging.

I've been coming here for maybe ten years at this stage and your last comment was easily one of the stupidest things I've read on here. And that's a hell of an achievement.
I genuinely don't believe you, you just want to be rude.
What exactly is wrong with my logic that makes it stupid when saying that "killer app" is used in a different context than "app" alone?

You could say your opinion differs, but for mine to be stupid, it would have to be irrational or have a logical fallacy.

Do you honestly think "killer app" is used in the same context? Would you call Halo for Xbox an app?

If my argument is weak, prove why instead of just pulling an ad hominem on me.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,609
34,778
USA
Who ever called a store where you can download software "App Store" before Apple did? The word "App" was common, but the combination "App Store" was not. Nobody ever used that combination. The generic name that was actually used was "Software store". And there is a company selling or renting containers who has a trademark on "Container Store", so there is precedent.


Where is Apple claiming they have the trademark for the word "Apps" or "App"?


Again, where does Apple claim the trademark for the word "App"?
If the term App is generic and Store is generic then it's relevant to the discussion.

"App" being used in jargon is different from commercial use.
There is a difference between a reviewer calling software an "app" and Palm themselves selling them as "Apps".

I've seen some people here claim that Palm did in fact call them apps. Does somebody have a link?
My point is - they were called Apps. Handango I believe had an APP store. (Handmark) although I'm not currently finding it via a simple search. And I don't have time to delve into it too much.

Are you arguing that no one used the term? That it wasn't popular? That Apple was the first to use the term app store?

Your initial statement was "but there's no doubt that the term "App" wasn't used at all before Apple's App Store."

That's what people responded to.
 

Earendil

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2003
1,546
0
Washington
Looking for it...used to have a link showing it but can't seem to find it. However, I've found "Handango Mobile App Store" so the "Mobile" part is an addition I don't recall seeing.

Interestingly enough, here's a mention of "Global Source" starting an "App Store".

http://www.1src.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-12876.html
Thanks! Refreshing to have someone make a claim and then not disappear when a citation is asked for :)
 

macsmurf

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2007
1,199
529
If my argument is weak, prove why instead of just pulling an ad hominem on me.
I already proved it in post #53. I honestly expected at least an attempt of moving the goalposts but ignoring the post altogether works too, I guess.
 

Arcus

macrumors 6502a
Dec 28, 2004
687
252
of my hand will get me slapped.
Whether "App Store" should be trademarkable or not is another question, but there's no doubt that the term "App" wasn't used at all before Apple's App Store.

Microsoft didn't even call Windows software "applications", they had always called them "programs".

I find it weird that a diminutive of a generic term is necessarily considered a generic term as well, even if nobody used the term. By the same logic, you couldn't have a trademark on something like "Mus Store" or "Boo Store". Meanwhile, it's OK for Microsoft to trademark terms like "Windows", "Office", "Word".

EDIT:

Okay, I did some research like macsmurf suggested.

Wikipedia:
In recent years, the term "app" has been used to exclusively refer to applications for mobile devices such as smartphones and tablets, referring to their smaller scope in relation to applications used by PCs.

There may be some anecdotal use of the term "app" before the iPhone (none of which I can easily find using Google, point me in the right direction if you can), but never was it a standard term used by any major tech company.

People started to refer to computer/mobile software as "apps" after Apple's App store, not before.

The only exception I can find is the term "Killer app", but like I said earlier, it has a different meaning. It's also the diminutive of "application", but you wouldn't use the term in the same context. For example, you could say that "X video game" is a console's "killer app". However, would you refer to console games as "apps"? I don't think anybody would, because it doesn't fit with the modern definition of "app" which Apple is responsible for.

Halo was the Xbox's killer app.
You wouldn't say "let's go to Gamestop preorder this app called Halo".
The term "killer app" has been around and in use since at least the early 80s. I remember VisiCalc was called a "killer app" back then. Not sure where you get this information you put forth as truth but I know it is just plain wrong.
 

Dr McKay

macrumors 68040
Aug 11, 2010
3,414
41
Kirkland
Whether "App Store" should be trademarkable or not is another question, but there's no doubt that the term "App" wasn't used at all before Apple's App Store.

Microsoft didn't even call Windows software "applications", they had always called them "programs".
Wrong, go in Windows and look at a .exe files properties. Windows will list it as an "Application".
 

barkmonster

macrumors 68020
Dec 3, 2001
2,121
10
Lancashire
Till iOS. Only Macs refered to Apps or Applications. Other platforms ran programs but as soon as Apple popularised the shorter term "App" as it refers to mobile applications, everyone suddenly decided to call all software, regardless of platform "Apps". I know a program IS an application and the terms are interchangable but Apple really should have had something here.

It really cracks me up to see Windows 8 suddenly throw out 18 years of half-baked, "different enough not to be patent plagiarism" conventions and start call software Apps like Apple always have after having a "Programs" menu where Apple have an "Applications" one and Amazon are no different.
 

fabianjj

macrumors 6502
Aug 28, 2007
319
0
"App" being used in jargon is different from commercial use.
There is a difference between a reviewer calling software an "app" and Palm themselves selling them as "Apps".

I've seen some people here claim that Palm did in fact call them apps. Does somebody have a link?
Here's a picture of a TI-84 from 2004, it has a button that says APPS in purple, which opens a list of installed apps. I'd say this is at least an indication that the word app was used by others referring to software applications generically before apple, which in turn should make the term 'App Store' considered generic.
 

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pgiguere1

macrumors 68020
May 28, 2009
2,157
1,081
Montreal, Canada
My point is - they were called Apps. Handango I believe had an APP store. (Handmark) although I'm not currently finding it via a simple search. And I don't have time to delve into it too much.

Are you arguing that no one used the term? That it wasn't popular? That Apple was the first to use the term app store?

Your initial statement was "but there's no doubt that the term "App" wasn't used at all before Apple's App Store."

That's what people responded to.
I'm arguing that Microsoft and Amazon are calling their store "App store/Appstore" strictly because of Apple's popularization of the term app. Even if there were some minor usage of the term "app" before, it was not a widespread term.

If you want an analogy, take the Samsung Galaxy Tab. This device was in direct reaction to the iPad and obviously wouldn't have happened otherwise. Yes, some tablets were made way before the iPad (namely Windows XP tablet PCs), but they are not the reason why there has been a huge surge in tablets a decade later, the iPad is. The fact that XP tablet PCs existed a decade ago don't change the fact that the Galaxy Tab only exists because of the iPad.

Likewise, there may have been some use of "app" you could find on Google before 2007, but the term didn't catch on in common language. Maybe it's just me, but I personally have never heard someone call a Windows program an "app" before Apple's App store came. It's very obvious for me that Amazon wouldn't have called their store "Appstore" and Microsoft wouldn't have called theirs "App Store" if it wasn't of Apple's App Store.

Like I said in my original comment, I'm not saying it's OK for Apple to trademark the term "App Store", I'm basically giving them credit for the fact that "App" is now commonly used by all other tech companies.

I exaggerated when saying there was no usage at all, but the little usage of the term "app" that actually happened before the App Store is not the reason why the term is super popular now, like the fact that some tablet PCs existed a decade ago is not the reason why tablets are super popular now.
 
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Geckotek

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2008
8,543
78
NYC
Too many clueless fanboys in this thread that don't even bother to do any research.

Apple did not popularize anything, but the spread of smartphones in general made the term more widely used.
 

Dr McKay

macrumors 68040
Aug 11, 2010
3,414
41
Kirkland
Till iOS. Only Macs refered to Apps or Applications. Other platforms ran programs but as soon as Apple popularised the shorter term "App" as it refers to mobile applications, everyone suddenly decided to call all software, regardless of platform "Apps". I know a program IS an application and the terms are interchangable but Apple really should have had something here.

It really cracks me up to see Windows 8 suddenly throw out 18 years of half-baked, "different enough not to be patent plagiarism" conventions and start call software Apps like Apple always have after having a "Programs" menu where Apple have an "Applications" one and Amazon are no different.
Windows has referred to .exes as Applications for longer than iOS, other older mobile platforms like PDAs have ran apps too. You base your evidence because Windows has a "Programme Files" folder? Why does Windows also have an App Data folder?
 

uknowimright

macrumors 6502a
Dec 30, 2011
810
390
can we start banning people (at least temporarily) spreading FUD and delete their FUD posts so people don't take it as fact?
 

3282868

macrumors 603
Jan 8, 2009
5,245
0
Too many clueless fanboys in this thread that don't even bother to do any research.
It makes me a bit sad to be an Apple Mac user when so many people are quick to let Apple off when they judge other companies for the same behavior so harshly. This is how a company, empire, etc loses its reign, loss of objective and critical analysis. By not objectively acknowledging any faults, how will they progress, innovate, improve? The recent "Do Not Disturb" matter in which Apple states it will resolve itself on the first Monday of the year (the 7th, as it did last year, the 2nd) without fixing it, this is unacceptable. By allowing this we simply give Apple a pass, just as last year. If another manufacturer responded in the same vein, such as Android based devices, you bet comments on here would be far different.

C'mon everyone, we're all here because we use and like Apple devices, let's not allow that fact to cloud our judgment(s) by giving Apple a pass over everything. We need competition, criticism, objectivity to keep Apple on its toes. Steve Jobs lived by this method, so should we.
 

miknos

Suspended
Mar 14, 2008
939
778
Seems like Apple made the term popular. Let free markets decide which "App Store" is better. The only people benefiting from this fight are lawyers.
 

Geckotek

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2008
8,543
78
NYC
Seems like Apple made the term popular. Let free markets decide which "App Store" is better. The only people benefiting from this fight are lawyers.
It would most likely seem that way to those who are younger or newer to the tech world. But for those of us that have been around for a while, it doesn't seem that way at all. At least that's where the line appears to be based no the conversations I'm reading here. Most of those saying they didn't popularize the term seem to have been gadget and/or IT geeks far before the iPhone was launched.