Microsoft used to have a monopoly. Like 95% of the PC market. Apple is at around 50% of smartphones, and only in America. In the rest of the world, they have a much smaller market share. They are not a monopoly.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Judge Grills Tim Cook on App Store Policies as End of of Epic Games v. Apple Trial Approaches
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
It’s not all about power. Access to certain APIs would not be safe/secure without an app approval process. Hijacking common questions to Siri, stealing personal data, etc, etc. Apple wouldn’t want apps to have access to your private data on the phone.
That being said, there are probably a lot of apps that wouldn’t need access to those APIs.
However, it's not over until it's over. Companies should be watched, but that doesn't mean Apple will be found for any of the points in the trial, and Epic could lose every single point. Obviously we won't know for a while.
I agree with you on the law part, but you have to remember this is a civil suit. It has to be judged based on existing laws, not based on public opinions.
AFAIK, Apple has broken no laws. I’m happy to be corrected tho.
Also EPIC is not, AFAIK, competing with Apple, wouldn’t you agree? EPIC is competing with all other games developers in the iOS App Store, with the same rules, wouldn’t you agree? They are just sore that they need to part with some of their revenue because of Apple’s rules, wouldn’t you agree? If you agree, how is Apple suppressing EPIC’s ability to compete?
Last edited:
This trial is being held in the United States. What's the reason for bringing the rest of the world into the discussion?
There are only 2 platforms, Android and iOS. Furthermore many companies to be competitive HAVE to be on both markets. Apple would be in a position to really hurt badly a large number of companies if they choose to, not that it has been proven that they have but this is monopolistic power. It's not really up for debate that much, it's what Apple does with it.
Which doesn't matter. Apple is the only company being looked at here and it is not a monopoly. Case closed unless it can be proven that Apple and Google are actively colluding at monopolistic practices. Epic is trying to create little "markets" within iOS even (literally saying iOS In App Payment Processing is a market) so that they can claim a monopoly on Apple's part.
This really does boil down to Epic wanting to be able to use Apple's devices, operating systems and even its App Store but substitute its own in app purchase payment system.
You're literally just making up arguments that sound good to you. There is no case closed here. This would have been tossed out a long time ago if that was true.
I agree with everything you say and I have no idea what will be the ruling. Apple raises lots of valid points about the benefits of controlling their platform yet it's obvious that at the same time they are trying to grab as much money as possible with in app purchases. I think that's the part of their case that is much more shaky.
Sorry, I have not made up a single thing. Whether you like it or not and whether it happens here or on appeal at some point the market definition will come into play and the one Epic is asking for in its suit is unprecedented.
Should the locality be restricted then to the state or district the court is in?
Apologies, can’t help myself with the sarcasm there.
The iOS App Store is available world wide. If I’m not wrong, the Fortnite game is available world wide before it was pulled am I right? Opportunities are provided to developers to make their software available to the world audience, so I think it’s app to consider markets outside of the USA if you want to define what’s a monopoly? Besides, Apple is not artificially hampering EPIC ability to compete with other developers in the iOS App Store, even if Apple is a “monopoly”. So I don’t any problem there.
Whatever the outcome is, if Apple is not satisfied, they will appeal? That could mean years pass before this ends?
It's funny to me that instead of just taking their business elsewhere this company is suing Apple. That tells me that this company knows it would not be successful without Apple. It's fighting to stay with a so-called abuser. Instead of moving on, they are attempting to use the courts to force Apple to continue to help them make millions but on their own terms. Meanwhile, lots of other app store tenants and Apple's competitors such as Google are sitting back licking their chops, hoping this ends badly for Apple. When you can't win in the marketplace, take it to the courts?
It's funny to me that instead of just taking their business elsewhere this company is suing Apple. That tells me that this company knows it would not be successful without Apple. It's fighting to stay with a so-called abuser. Instead of moving on, they are attempting to use the courts to force Apple to continue to help them make millions but on their own terms. Meanwhile, lots of other app store tenants and Apple's competitors such as Google are sitting back licking their chops, hoping this ends badly for Apple. When you can't win in the marketplace, take it to the courts?
iOS in itself is a market and Apple as a monopoly on it. That's what is being argued by Government bodies and companies across the world. Apple argue the opposite because they have a much lower than 50% share of the phone market. It's not a black or white question. There is no strict definition of what is a market.
Nothing wrong with making a good profit, as long as it’s legal.
I felt I benefited from Apple‘s work, so I reward them with product and services purchases. I would hate for this to be changed due to others perceived need to profit off Apple’s work, which may make it worst for many. There’s a saying in the software world, “if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it”, which I fully subscribe to.
Last edited:
Actually it is Epic trying to claim this, not a Government body. And they are going even farther than just iOS (which is ludicrous) to say that iOS App Store In App Payment systems is a market. If this judge dodges the issue it will be up on Appeal big time as Epics definition is unprecedented.
This literally got edited by a moderator because I called people fanboys. They edited it so the ending line doesn't even make sense the way it reads. That's so helpful.
This post has nine reactions and none of them are even dislikes so far. xD
Great. You got a few reactions that agree with your sentiments. What is important if the Judge agrees, or not. There is much polarization when it comes to Apple about almost everything. (of course with hundreds of millions of customers, each will have their own point of view)
We should take EPIC GAMES to court since we are not allowed to make weapons and sell them inside their game for real money profit. So they have a monopoly in their game store.
If you went back to Walmart and asked them to set up a subscription for you, then yes they should get a cut since you're asking them to do the work. However, you don't have to do that. You can buy that subscription anywhere you want.
Stupid analogies aside, the facts are simple: you don't have to buy vbucks on the app store. You also don't have to buy netflix subs, or spotify subs, or kindle books. Every single app developer can offer their product outside the app store and avoid all the fees. That choice has always been there.
well, this might be a simple fix, develop a new tier of payment, and charge a flat right to access apple API's in addition to the 15%-30% cut Apple takes. The ones that take the 30% option gets incitives for doing it like better promotions on the app store and such the those that take the flat rate are responsible for their own marketing.
Surely you understand that a United States court does not have the authority to make judgments for the rest of the world.
Yes, I understand that, but it doesn’t mean that the ”monopoly” terms should be restricted to only the USA. I don’t think EPIC is restricting it to just the USA. Apple definitely will argue worldwide.
Edit: Also as I understand the lawsuit, EPIC is accusing Apple of monopolising the iOS “market place”, while true, is stupid IMHO. EPIC is not competing with Apple. They are competing with other games developers for customers attention, which btw are playing by the exact same rule as EPIC. I don’t see how the anti-competitive claim can stand in this lawsuit.
Last edited:
The 30% is to cover what Apple spent to bring a billion customers to the table. Buying a marketing list of customers will cost many thousands of dollars but you can't sit there and argue about how cheap the paper is or how it cost them nothing to email it to you. This is a classic case of not seeing where the value is.
This isn’t a stupid analogy. Apple chose to absorb the costs of software updates and versioning in order to create a closed market! You’re not making any sense. A developer cannot distribute binaries to the general public outside of the App Store, so they are always bound to Apple’s profiteering. You’d have an argument if developers could release comparable software and manage their own updates, but Apple blocks that in the name of security.
The only thing I do not like about getting rid of the App Store in-app purchase restrictions is suddenly everyone follows Adobe’s model: the app is “free” but then there’s an immediate external subscription paywall. It basically takes Apple from 30% to 0% overnight and guts the App Store, which I happen to like because it serves as a centralized place to download vetted apps. They just shouldn’t take it upon themselves to pretend like every app is THEIR technology just because a developer wrote it for that OS. Imagine if HTML and JS were owned by private companies and every web page had to pass through a licensing paywall. That’s just how absurd Apple’s control over iOS/iPadOS binaries are when 50% of smartphone users are on iOS!