Judge Joe Brown knows his canon gear...

[sushi]

P.S. IIRC these cases are real, what happens is that both sides are "paid" some amount of money to appear on the show, so even though you may be on the losing end of the case you will come out better than had you lost in "real" court because you got paid some money to appear. I have even heard there is a common pool of say $5k to put towards the whole case, which is likely why you saw the judge raise the amount of the award which otherwise would be completely nonsensical. The rulings, however, are legally binding and cannot be appealed (if that's even possible in small-claims).

This makes sense.

Definitely need to have interesting topics or issues to draw an audience.

 

[Abyssgh0st]

Reminds me of the Montel show.. people getting paid to disgrace themselves and banter about nonsense.

Anywho, I loved Brown's referencing of the various Canon gear.. even the Judge hates Canon Rebels!

 

[H2Ockey]

*snip*
A photographer does not need to own a 1-series body to rightfully label themselves as professional. Galen Rowell often took "cheap" light consumer lenses into the field because they were easier to carry on his outings, and we all know how many times we've repeated it here that good gear does not make good photos.
*snip*

While I think you are completely correct, I also think this is where the judge was trying to get to but the photogs/defendants were being to combative. He was trying to get them to explain how they dealt with low light with the lenses they had and when they didn't seem to get that he then went over the top grilling them on their gear.

 

[FrankieTDouglas]

Well, entertaining, but he was absolutely wrong in his description of the exterior light shots. In one where the bride was lit by a high noon sun and no clouds to help those hard shadows, he calls it soft, diffused natural light.

Whatever.

It was like he had a scorecard in front of him and just rattled off specs at random.

But, what photographer owns a lens and can't tell someone instantly what speed it is?

 

[racketeer71]

However, the verdict doesn't actually have any say, it's just the judges opinion and it doesn't have any power. The "real" court's verdict has the final say.

So in a way, judge shows are real, but the final verdict is not.

According to WP, the participants in these kind of shows enter "binding arbitration", and the verdict is therefore quite final. Although there's probably always a loophole.

 

[John.B]

So where is the Judge Joe Brown published work?

None of my work is freely published, it all sits behind password protected galleries.

Same with my band's original music; if you want to hear us, you can pay the cover charge and buy a few drinks and have some fun with everyone else.

I'll never understand this urge to give away for free what you can charge for. Then again, neither of these is my day job...

 

[notjustjay]

This link was interesting reading (including all the comments) and provides an alternate perspective on the whole thing.

http://www.lighting-essentials.com/...-bus-may-be-great-fun-but-is-it-a-good-thing/

 

[Reality4711]

Gotta say

This link was interesting reading (including all the comments) and provides an alternate perspective on the whole thing.

http://www.lighting-essentials.com/...-bus-may-be-great-fun-but-is-it-a-good-thing/

Surprisedmyself. Being a bigotted old fart! Quite agree with the 'Ranter'!

Kneejerk liking of the vid. now sits kinda sqew!

Can see the onesidedness of the vid. and the likely pain caused to a striving fellow tog!

Hmmm? not like me. Must be an epiphany.

 

[firestarter]

Is is me, or is this just low-brow unintelligent trash TV?

The 'judge' doesn't seem particularly bright... more interested in fluffing his own ego and shouting than actually listening to the case.

I half expected the crowd to start chanting 'Jerry, Jerry!' or something like that.

 

[ukuleleman]

Don't mess with the judge

Judge Joe Brown is such an awesome show... He just seems like a beast.

He's a ***** cat compared to Judge Judy, but I bet Judy knows diddley about cameras.

Sorry about the ***** word, it does not have the same connotations in britain, well at least it is legal!

 

[Rickay726]

hahahaha what a clown, who doesn't know what speed their own lens is, and I'm impressed with the judge's knowledge of f/stops and the the equipment.

 

[scaredpoet]

However, the verdict doesn't actually have any say, it's just the judges opinion and it doesn't have any power. The "real" court's verdict has the final say.

So in a way, judge shows are real, but the final verdict is not.

Not quite correct. You're right that these judge shows aren't actual courts of law. However, the litigants in each case basically "settle" their actual court case by agreeing to a binding arbitration session, which happens to take the form of the show.

So, the verdicts are binding because both sides entered into a legal contract in advance to submit to arbitration. That's the what these shows are, just dressed up with courtroom-ish sets. The verdicts are real in the sense that the "photographers" in this case indeed had to pay the bride $2,500, because they agreed in advance that the Joe Brown's decision would carry legal force.

Anyway, yeah.... pretty silly for a someone to claim to be a "professional" and basically using a Rebel XTi kit, complete with kit lens. And not even using the "good" IS version of the 18-55mm kit lens. And then to meet your client with the photos at a Walmart parking lot? They likely bought the camera at that same Walmart, too.

I've shot weddings with better equipment, did a better job than that, and still never claimed to be "professional."

Yes, you can get some very good shots with a Canon Rebel Series camera. I carry a T2i, and the T1i I had before that was apparently good enough for a thief to steal. However, I think the Judge was still right on this one. He did mention that the Rebel XTi used isn't bad, and that "they've improved recently." But he's also right that you don't go into a wedding with just a slow kit lens, especially one known for not being very good, and come out of it with photos worth $1,300. And while the talk was tech-heavy, it served to established that the "photographers" didn't know what they were talking about and likely lacked the knowledge or competence to pass themselves off as professionals and charge pro rates. If they did - and I would expect any wedding photographer to know what they're talking about - they would've been able to answer his questions, and the case could've moved on to the facts at hand.

But they didn't do that... they fumbled, they pretty much made it clear they were a bunch of noobs who likely were shooting in greenbox mode, and then ultimately got flustered and told the judge to "just get on with the verdict." And so, he did: they lost and their attitude compelled the judge to award the plaintiif more than they even asked for.

BTW, Walmart typically uses the same printing machines as most online photography print shops.

Granted, but that still doesn't mean they should've met their client at the parking lot of that same Walmart where they printed the photos. The client hired a professional and expects professionalism. I wouldn't do the "meet at the Walmart" routine even I was volunteering to shoot the wedding for free!

 

[carlgo]

Brown kind of prides himself about knowing about guy stuff, technology and cars.

Judge Judy knows nothing about this stuff and readily admits it. She makes some erroneous judgements because of this.

He likes to nail macho-boys, low-level nuisance criminals with pit bulls. JJB hates pit bulls.

Both JJB and JJ try to humiliate stupid people so that others see how stupid people aren't admired (the audience laughs at them) and don't adapt the stupid-people lifestyle.

I think they do a public service and are entertaining.

 

[Raytrace]

It really has little to do with the equipment and nearly everything to do with the brain behind it. I went to a local studio recently for a family portrait. This is a place that does full-price professional portraits for all occasions. The photographer was using, get ready for this, a Canon Rebel!! Now of course they had the proper lighting setup which make the shots possible.

OTOH, there has to be a reasonable expectation of professional tools to do professional work. I've done weddings where the minister requested no flash photography whatsoever and my only option was to slap on the fast glass. If I didn't have that pro gear, I'd have been done for.

JJB was correct in holding these photographers accountable, but not entirely for the equipment they were using. Primarily they were just incompetent boobs (pardon the irony) and weren't prepared for the demands of a professional shoot, both with the tools and the knowledge.

 

[macuserx86]

I want to hang out with this guy and shoot some weddings!

 

[wingsabr]

I want to hang out with this guy and shoot some weddings!

win

 

[kkat69]

This video came up a little while ago in one of the wedding threads.

It was fun to watch, and I admit I was surprised when Judge Brown started rattling off camera specs.

However, I think the photographers totally got the shaft here. I'm not saying they deserved to win the case, or that the judgement was not fair (Given their behavior in the case I agree with the final ruling), but the whole case was argued on gear specs and only about 1-2 mins -if that- was spent on the actual photos themselves. The photos taken at the wedding were never compared to those displayed on their website/ad as examples of their work. The whole print size argument was pretty wishy-washy too. Did the photographer and client have an agreement beforehand that there would be 16x20 or larger prints? And yes, JJB, you can make prints bigger than 4x6 from the body they used.
<... snipped for brevity>

I agree and disagree here. Yes you can take some REAL awsome shots that can blow up to extreme sizes with the camera they had, I know because I have that camera (Rebel Xti 18-55mm lens) but the problem is in how the picture was taken.

The pictures he had in his hand look horrible and IMHO could NOT be blown up any higher. A lot of those shots (indoors) from what I could see would NOT have come from a professional that knows how to manipulate the settings. They look like pictures I took when I started using my Rebel but now have gotten a lot smarter on how to take good shots in low lighting. They mentioned 2 lens and the shots they took should have looked a LOT better. Even the outside shots had to much shadow in one picture.

A professional not only knows about lighting/settings but also placement, times to take shots, shot opportunities, setting up the shot, outdoors how to manipulate natural lighting (ie., using flash to offset shadow, using reflective cards to shine natural light into unlit areas for staged shots, etc) and I gotta admit, those look like disposable camera shots.

I've seen amateur photos that looked professional in low light and the best light. I've even seen amateur photographers pass off as professional and succeed simply due to what little knowledge they knew and those photo's came out awsome (we paid a lady for family photo's years back) but those photo's did NOT look professional. Plus of the 3 professional photographers I know (I hit them up for tips all the time I see them, I'm sure they're tired of it by now LOL) they will NOT charge the customer for shots that are crappy, let alone even show them to the customer except to prove they took shots. Plus they always take more than 2-3 shots per moment if possible to ensure they DID get a good shot.

Heck they didn't even seem to add any professional touch ups (frosted edges, focus tricks, etc). That one shot of the bride and groom's face looked like a shot from the "Kiss Me" bit they do at basketball games. What professional photographer passes that off for a "Wedding" package?

From what I saw it looked like auto and "P" shooting and they took the card to Walmart and used their photo tools at the kiosk and printed them out.

$2500 bucks judgment (real or not) for crappy photos of an event that can't be redone (at least not without looking fake) I say they got off light.