Jump ship or not?

[Stingray454]

I can't speak for OSX VM in Linux, but when I ran it last year on an XPS 15 in Windows 10, it was better than tolerable. I had 2 cores and 8GB of RAM dedicated to the VM. I did have to turn off animations in the Apple UI, to get it to run like normal. The only issue I had was that I was unable to get Messages to work in the VM. I didn't try very hard, though. Although I prefer OSX to Windows 10, I kind of stopped using the VM because it was one more hoop to jump through that didn't make that much of a difference in terms of my kind of usage. 50 percent of the time I'm in Windows, anyway, to play games in Bootcamp. The only thing holding me back at this point is the anticipation of loud fans and middling battery life for the XPS. If I got it again, it'd be 32 GB of RAM and the 4K screen, both of which suck power. The new model does have a larger battery, though...and most of the time I'd be plugging this thing in and have it on a laptop cooler....

If you want to keep the fan noise down it might be an idea to go with the FHD version, the 4K ones get considerably hotter (both the screen drawing more power but mostly the GPU working harder to update 4x the area compared to a FHD). I did set my sights on a 4k screen too as I really like the retina screen, but then I found some 13-14" FHD laptops while browsing in a store, and the screens actually look super good. I think the lost battery life, scaling issues, extra heat and so on isn't really worth the tiny improvement in text clarity and such. Better to get an external HiDPI screen for when you use it docked imo.

But yeah, OS X in a VM for any must-have applications (at least during a transition period) seems like a good way to go.

 

[ocnitsa]

If you want to keep the fan noise down it might be an idea to go with the FHD version, the 4K ones get considerably hotter (both the screen drawing more power but mostly the GPU working harder to update 4x the area compared to a FHD). I did set my sights on a 4k screen too as I really like the retina screen, but then I found some 13-14" FHD laptops while browsing in a store, and the screens actually look super good. I think the lost battery life, scaling issues, extra heat and so on isn't really worth the tiny improvement in text clarity and such. Better to get an external HiDPI screen for when you use it docked imo.

But yeah, OS X in a VM for any must-have applications (at least during a transition period) seems like a good way to go.

You are right that FHD is a good way to go, especially regarding battery. I might not be able to resist the i9, 32GB RAM, and 1050ti (and bigger battery), though. I believe those only come configurable with the 4k version. Configured like that, it just hits my threshold for what work will pay for AND I only have access to that money for another year or two...I am definitely going to wait for the new MBPs to be revealed. By that time, hopefully Dell will run some sort of discount on the XPS...if Apple does look worthwhile with their upgrade, I'll push the envelope on waiting and wait for that model to be offered via the Apple refurb store, probably.

My issue that makes waiting hard is that my 2012 MBP 15 inch retina lappie has what appears to be a bad CPU thermal sensor. Meaning the laptop will randomly ramp up the fan and start throttling the CPU. I can sometimes get this to stop by going through various hoops related to allowing the computer to go to sleep on its own (due to power settings) and then waking it up. It's not a real thermal issue, I'm convinced.

Meaning manually turning on fans doesn't help with the throttling issue (kernal task goes up astronomically slowing the laptop for any meaningful use). A clean install didn't help. Diagnostics throws back different complaints regarding stuff. What I'm left with is two things...replacing the logic board (which I'm not willing to pay for) or replacing the SSD (which would cost around 200 bucks). I may replace the SSD, just hoping it's something bad there, so my wife could use the laptop when I replace it. But, sometimes, I can get it to work just fine as long as I don't do have to updates and whatnot OR shut it down. Just have to let it sleep. I've gotten by with that, since I generally have it sitting at work hooked up to a Thunderbolt display, keyboard, mouse (detaching any of those doesn't help with the kernal task throttling/fans issue). Resetting PRAM, SMC, etc. doesn't help. Ironically, I never have any issues regarding throttling when I run Windows 10 in Bootcamp. In fact, I've thought about turning it into a Windows machine for my wife.

If I could my Mac to limp along without throttling, I could probably handle using it until I was required by work to use the money or lose it...thus getting the newest hardware or the best for cheapest.

 

[Partron22]

Best to get at least one foot onto another ship soon.
Apple's had quite a string of disappointing years computerwise.
Even at stasis, the number of developers, and companies that support Mac hardware will be declining.

 

[Queen6]

Best to get at least one foot onto another ship soon.
Apple's had quite a string of disappointing years computerwise.
Even at stasis, the number of developers, and companies that support Mac hardware will be declining.

Exactly, Apple is just pandering to the masses, impressing with the wow factor, bells and whistles if you will. Never seen so many drop Apple for their professional needs, and why ever fewer developers will be inclined to invest their time.

Q-6

 

[Stingray454]

I think this years release of MBPs (which is in just a few weeks) will be a tipping point for many. Years of quite crappy hardware and lacking software updates, if this year turns out to be just a minor specbump with no real improvements I'm ready to jump.

I have been using Linux (tried some different distros) for the last few weeks. In the beginning there sure was a bit of frustration, but as you learn more about the system, the more comfortable you get. There are still issues that you face on Linux that a mac handles effortlessly - adding printers, networks shares, peripheral support (we have some conference speakers and similar stuff at work that just doesn't play with linux), hotplugging of TB-monitors doesn't work and such things. You can learn to live with it, but OS X is better at all those things. However all the other software and hardware quirks in the Apple camp really makes the playing field quite even.

For now I'm at least glad I have an option that I feel is just as viable in case Apple drops the ball completely this year.

 

[lcseds]

Tipping point for me for sure. They need to Wow! me and it would be nice if they made it a little bit better value. Maybe take the margin from 60% to maybe 40% (made up numbers folks, don't jump).

I'm refreshing the X1 Carbon Gen 6 web page daily watching the price. Haven't done that for a Windows unit for many, many, many years.

 

[ocnitsa]

Tipping point for me for sure. They need to Wow! me and it would be nice if they made it a little bit better value. Maybe take the margin from 60% to maybe 40% (made up numbers folks, don't jump).

I'm refreshing the X1 Carbon Gen 6 web page daily watching the price. Haven't done that for a Windows unit for many, many, many years.

The disappointing thing is when you can be Wow'ed! by fundamental things like a keyboard more closely aligned with the one 2-3 gens ago. IMO, these basic characteristics, like keyboard or including a free cable to replicate legacy ports, having more choices regarding RAM (at expense of battery) become more important when price is not going to be something you Wow! at in a good way. The reason this feels like a tipping point is because the premium one associates with the premium price for an Apple laptop feels more and more diminished.

 

[Stingray454]

For me price isn't really an issue as my workplace will buy me just about any computer I need, be it the 2018 MBP or a Dell / Lenovo / Whatever. Although I agree the macbooks are definitely overpriced.

But yes, I agree with ocnitsa. I want something with a discrete gpu for casual gaming / graphics work, and those only come with the touch bar, which is an awful invention. As mentioned, they keyboards are really bad too. I wish for something closer to the 2015 MBP with more ports, separate HDMI, SD card reader, function keys, regular keyboard and such, but with the latest cpu / gpu. Isn't it crazy that the most wanted features are what apple produced 3 years ago and then stopped making?

I do like OS X, it handles all OS-level tasks completely in the backgroudn with you never having to worry about it, while in Linux you often need to get your hands dirty or just live with a not-so-perfect experience with your hardware. But at least you can select the hardware you want, and I'm not sure I can take touchbars and dongle hell for the coming years.

 

[Val-kyrie]

Dell's noisy fan or not if the MBP keyboard dosnt work its a totally junk mac book pro.
you got to think where you will be in a year with your purchase. seems mac books you will be standing at the genius bar wishing you bought apple support. With the Dell you will still have a noisy fan.

i really dont think apple will fix the keyboard for 2018, they think users are holding it wrong.
MBP replacement parts are failing just the same as rate.

I can understand your experience--I had a terrible experience with Dell about a decade ago. Have you checked out the Dell XPS 13 9370 (2018) or the Lenovo X1 Carbon (2018)? Both are equipped with TB and are able to fully utilize an eGPU. I also have not heard any complaints about fans on these models. I am considering both because my local Costco has both in stock and at much lower prices than online or in B&M stores.

 

[hajime]

I have a P series for work. It's the higher end version with the quad core and nVidia GPU (can't think of the model at the moment). It's not a bad machine at all. The only annoyance is when I take it off the dock and get greeted with the blurry fonts due to Windows' forever-terrible font scaling on the "HighDPI" display. I have to log out and back in to get the scaling fixed. Of course, when I plug back in to the dock, my standard DPI monitor gets the blurry fonts, requiring the logout procedure all over again. Thankfully, I rarely undock without a complete shutdown. I know MS is trying to fix this issue, but ironically, this is happening with Office365--which coincidentally also doesn't support non-active-window scrolling (even though programs like Google Chrome do).

Is this still happening?

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Is this still happening?

Which part? The fonts haven’t changed, though being an enterprise computer, I don’t believe it’s past anniversary update.

 

[hajime]

Which part? The fonts haven’t changed, though being an enterprise computer, I don’t believe it’s past anniversary update.

4K scaling issue.

 

[Stingray454]

Coming from mac, I wasn't even aware that scaling was an issue on other OS'ed since I started exploring linux / windows . Windows handles it quite ok but with some issues, linux is quite terrible at it. OS X is actually very good at it, never had a single scaling issue, blurry font, mixed-dpi-problem and such. In that respect, I must say that Apple handled it very well. I know it's in the works for Linux, once wayland based DE's are mature enough we'll see it handled well on linux too, but that's a year or two away I'd guess.

Personally I'd prefer a HiDPI laptop that I can plug into both low- and hi-dpi external screens without issue. In my work I disconnect / reconnect between different monitors all the time, and it's a mess on anything but OS X. To the point that I'm thinking of going for a FHD laptop instead of HiDPI just to get rid of all the headaches, once it's sorted I guess its time to upgrade laptop anyways.

 

[hajime]

Coming from mac, I wasn't even aware that scaling was an issue on other OS'ed since I started exploring linux / windows . Windows handles it quite ok but with some issues, linux is quite terrible at it. OS X is actually very good at it, never had a single scaling issue, blurry font, mixed-dpi-problem and such. In that respect, I must say that Apple handled it very well. I know it's in the works for Linux, once wayland based DE's are mature enough we'll see it handled well on linux too, but that's year or two away I'd guess.

Personally I'd prefer a HiDPI laptop that I can plug into both low- and hi-dpi external screens without issue. In my work I disconnect / reconnect between different monitors all the time, and it's a mess on anything but OS X. To the point that I'm thinking of going for a FHD laptop instead of HiDPI just to get rid of all the headaches, once it's sorted I guess its time to upgrade laptop anyways.

Linux also has 4K scaling issue?

 

[Stingray454]

Linux also has 4K scaling issue?

Very much so. Some applications simply doesn't scale well. Using a 4k monitor with a 1920x1080 monitor is basically impossible. You can't have different DPI on two screens as things are now. Also there are issues with hotplugging monitors, remembering resolutions for different monitor setups and such.

Sure, things are improving, but right now it's not great. Personally I love hi-res screens, but I'm seriously considering buying a laptop with FHD instead of 4k just to not have to deal with all these issues.

 

[hajime]

Very much so. Some applications simply doesn't scale well. Using a 4k monitor with a 1920x1080 monitor is basically impossible. You can't have different DPI on two screens as things are now. Also there are issues with hotplugging monitors, remembering resolutions for different monitor setups and such.

Sure, things are improving, but right now it's not great. Personally I love hi-res screens, but I'm seriously considering buying a laptop with FHD instead of 4k just to not have to deal with all these issues.

Do you mean if the laptop's LCD is not 4K but the external monitor is 4K, then I will have problems?

 

[Stingray454]

Do you mean if the laptop's LCD is not 4K but the external monitor is 4K, then I will have problems?

Yes. Or the other way around (4k laptop screen with 1920x1080 external monitor).

 

[hajime]

Yes. Or the other way around (4k laptop screen with 1920x1080 external monitor).

It will be inconvenience for me.