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Just bought 27" iMac and its with Mojave

F

Freida

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Original poster
Oct 22, 2010
4,077
5,874
Hey guys,

I was suprised as I just bought an iMac in main Apple store in my town and when I turned it on it still has previous OS. (Mojave)
So that tells me, that it must have been sitting there for ages. Is that really normal?
Or does Apple no longer changes to Catalina because of the tepid reception?

I just find it sad that brand new machine is this "old". :D :D :D
 
Be thankful you got what you've got.
I'd leave Catalina alone for now, and just stick with Mojave.
For too many users, Catalina seems to be "a bag of hurt"... (who said that...?)
 
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Freida said:
Hey guys,

I was suprised as I just bought an iMac in main Apple store in my town and when I turned it on it still has previous OS. (Mojave)
So that tells me, that it must have been sitting there for ages. Is that really normal?
Or does Apple no longer changes to Catalina because of the tepid reception?

I just find it sad that brand new machine is this "old". :D :D :D
Click to expand...

Catalina was released 4 months ago. It is hardly ancient.
 
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Freida said:
Hey guys,

I was suprised as I just bought an iMac in main Apple store in my town and when I turned it on it still has previous OS. (Mojave)
So that tells me, that it must have been sitting there for ages. Is that really normal?
Or does Apple no longer changes to Catalina because of the tepid reception?

I just find it sad that brand new machine is this "old". :D :D :D
Click to expand...

It doesn't work that way. The model you bought shipped with Mojave and that's what you get. An iMac produced yesterday in China also ships with Mojave.

The only new Mac hardware that ships with Catalina is the 16" MBP.

Be glad yours shipped with Mojave.
 
Mojave is great, although I haven't had any problems with Catalina on my 2015 iMac. A more important question is "are you sure you should buy an iMac right now?" Setting aside all the "buy a computer when you need it" replies, I think we might be on the cusp of a really big iMac upgrade. The iMac still needs a T2 chip which means putting SSDs in all the machines. Plus, given the greatly improved graphics in the 16" MacBook Pro, I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar upgrade to the iMac graphics. Who knows when it will come, but we could see an upgrade as soon as March.
 
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Guys, some of you might be confused. I was simply surprised that Catalina was released ages ago but the macs still go with Mojave. That sends 2 messages: a) Apple is being careful here because of the feedback b) it doesn't sell that well so it sits there for long time (hard to belive in a store with this much traffic)

Which brings me why I bought iMac now. Well, I wanted to test it and Apple's policy is nice in that way. They didn't have SSD so I wanted to see and test few things to know what to focus on and where its fine as it is.
So far, the fusion is not as bad as i thought but probably won't get that again. The keyboard is bad - needs to get the one with numbers.
GPU seems fine actually, thought it would be slow but Maya viewport seems to be running better than expected so that was a nice discovery.

Anyway, I will test it thoroughly for 2 weeks and then see what I need to get etc.
Last time I owned iMac was in 2007 or so. Always had Mac Pro until recently when I got Macbook Pro :)

The bezels are outdated though, looks weird
[automerge]1581094063[/automerge]
Not really. Its all outdated (kinda) but its good time to test it as it can only get better from here.
I was worried about certain things but I got surprised. Will do some heavy work on it this weekend so will see then. If it holds then I might not need to buy the better version that I originally thought but its all in progress :)

vertical smile said:
One could argue that this might be the best time to buy a new iMac, before a potential redesign.....
Click to expand...
 
jardinager said:
It doesn't work that way. The model you bought shipped with Mojave and that's what you get. An iMac produced yesterday in China also ships with Mojave.

The only new Mac hardware that ships with Catalina is the 16" MBP.

Be glad yours shipped with Mojave.
Click to expand...
That's not entirely true. Apple tends to update its production processes after a while to incorporate OS updates and upgrades. An iMac produced yesterday in China will definitely ship with Catalina. However, this transition is gradual and not instantaneous, meaning that it can take several weeks for all production lines to be upgraded. The difference is that you can downgrade said iMac to Mojave whereas you can't downgrade the 16" MacBook Pro or the new Mac Pro.

Case in point: the 2017 iMac originally shipped with Sierra, yet mine came with High Sierra preinstalled when I purchased it in April of 2018.
 
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Freida said:
Not really
Click to expand...
An argument could definitely be made that this could be the best time to purchase an iMac rather than wait for a potentially redesign.

The first gen of a new design tends to have more issues that usually get worked out on revisions.

Apple’s trend for making Macs less upgradable might impact the redesign iMac, potential for soldered RAM, storage, etc.

I personally have no interest in the T2 chip, so if a redesign has it included, this alone would be a good reason to get a 2019.

This was just a few reasons, but I am sure I can come up with more.

Besides, no one knows when Apple will announce a new and/or redesigned iMac, so if someone needed a new iMac, they may not be able to wait for the next release.
 
vertical smile said:
Besides, no one knows when Apple will announce a new and/or redesigned iMac, so if someone needed a new iMac, they may not be able to wait for the next release.
Click to expand...

Not soon is my guess. Reason: Apple always ups the top of the line CPU with a new Mac and I don't think there is an available now 95W Intel chip better than that in the current iMac.
 
vertical smile said:
An argument could definitely be made that this could be the best time to purchase an iMac rather than wait for a potentially redesign.

The first gen of a new design tends to have more issues that usually get worked out on revisions.

Apple’s trend for making Macs less upgradable might impact the redesign iMac, potential for soldered RAM, storage, etc.

I personally have no interest in the T2 chip, so if a redesign has it included, this alone would be a good reason to get a 2019.

This was just a few reasons, but I am sure I can come up with more.

Besides, no one knows when Apple will announce a new and/or redesigned iMac, so if someone needed a new iMac, they may not be able to wait for the next release.
Click to expand...

Exactly, there are quite a few forum threads where people successfully have replaced their iMac's NVMe blade SSD and/or SATA SSDs with reasonably priced off the shelf components to massively increase internal storage capacity down the track.

The coming of the T2 chip (or whatever version they get up to) will likely bring a complete end to DIY internal SSD upgrades (as the T2 functions as the Mac's SSD controller and is incompatible with any retail SSD - which all have their own controllers). I hope that they at least keep the RAM easily user replaceable on future generations of large iMacs
 
Freida said:
Guys, some of you might be confused. I was simply surprised that Catalina was released ages ago but the macs still go with Mojave. That sends 2 messages: a) Apple is being careful here because of the feedback b) it doesn't sell that well so it sits there for long time (hard to belive in a store with this much traffic)

Which brings me why I bought iMac now. Well, I wanted to test it and Apple's policy is nice in that way. They didn't have SSD so I wanted to see and test few things to know what to focus on and where its fine as it is.
So far, the fusion is not as bad as i thought but probably won't get that again. The keyboard is bad - needs to get the one with numbers.
GPU seems fine actually, thought it would be slow but Maya viewport seems to be running better than expected so that was a nice discovery.

Anyway, I will test it thoroughly for 2 weeks and then see what I need to get etc.
Last time I owned iMac was in 2007 or so. Always had Mac Pro until recently when I got Macbook Pro :)

The bezels are outdated though, looks weird
[automerge]1581094063[/automerge]
Not really. Its all outdated (kinda) but its good time to test it as it can only get better from here.
I was worried about certain things but I got surprised. Will do some heavy work on it this weekend so will see then. If it holds then I might not need to buy the better version that I originally thought but its all in progress :)
Click to expand...
Hi All. First post so please be patient with me if I screw this up. This thread is related to my own recent experiences. Bought the MBP 16" i9 and returned it after 13 days due to heat issues. Next bought the MBP 16" i7 and returned it for the same reason. Currently waiting on the delivery of a BTO 2019 iMac i5 512 SSD with extended keyboard and trackpad. Should be here on Tuesday. Manufactured in Cork, transferred to Shannon, and currently departing Europe from Koeln, Germany.

The heat issues experienced were pretty much identical on both MBPs and are easily reproducible. The secret recipe is:
- Disable automatic graphics switching via System Preferences.
- Select "Drift" as the screensaver of choice.
- Make certain there are no apps running since this is a test of the system under cpu idle conditions.
- Let the screensaver engage and wait 15 minutes or so.
- Using either Intel Power Gadget or TC Pro (I used both), check out the temp. On each of mine it went from 35C to 70C.
- Re-engage the screensaver and wait another 15 minutes. I found the i7 slightly under TDP whereas the i9 had exceeded it by 5C (at 105C).

Both systems were very uncomfortable to type on due to the heat rising through the keyboard. Also, worried that this system would not hold up in the long term. The heat is all caused by the Radeon. When you disable graphics switching, the MBP is forced to use the Radeon rather than the intel 620. My normal setup is to use a laptop with my 27" LG 4K monitor which also caused the Radeon to engage.

BTW, the fans do kick in. Idle on the fans was around 2100 rpm (this is with the at 35C). At 90C, the fans were up to 2400 rpm. Rather than let the system bake, I used TC pro to bring the fans to max rpm (4500 rpm if I remember correctly). The fans brought the system temp down to 55C. I experimented with it for a while to learn more but the bottom line for me is that the MBP 16" is not a comfortable laptop to use in the long term.

One other point, the i9 came with Mojave but immediately down loaded Catalina (all 3GBs of it) without giving me the choice to keep it at Mojave. The i7 came with Catalina fully installed.

Curious how the Imac will turnout next week when I receive it.
 
The 2019 iMac is an awesome choice for many reasons. Once that new design hits with Catalina and T2 there will be a rush to get the last good iMac.
 
BluePlanet said:
The heat issues experienced were pretty much identical on both MBPs and are easily reproducible. The secret recipe is:
- Disable automatic graphics switching via System Preferences.
- Select "Drift" as the screensaver of choice.
- Make certain there are no apps running since this is a test of the system under cpu idle conditions.
- Let the screensaver engage and wait 15 minutes or so.
- Using either Intel Power Gadget or TC Pro (I used both), check out the temp. On each of mine it went from 35C to 70C.
- Re-engage the screensaver and wait another 15 minutes. I found the i7 slightly under TDP whereas the i9 had exceeded it by 5C (at 105C).
Click to expand...
Let me get this straight: you put the MacBook Pro under maximum load for both CPU and GPU, such as would be caused for example by gaming, and then returned it because it got hot under these conditions? :rolleyes:
 
jardinager said:
It doesn't work that way. The model you bought shipped with Mojave and that's what you get. An iMac produced yesterday in China also ships with Mojave.

The only new Mac hardware that ships with Catalina is the 16" MBP.

Be glad yours shipped with Mojave.
Click to expand...
I got my 2015 iMac a few months after Sierra was released (this model originally shipped with El Capitan) and it had 12.0 installed. I was able to do a fresh install of El Cap though.
 
mj_ said:
Let me get this straight: you put the MacBook Pro under maximum load for both CPU and GPU, such as would be caused for example by gaming, and then returned it because it got hot under these conditions? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
If you consider the MBP 16" at idle (i.e. no programs or apps running as verified by the activity monitor showing the cpu 98% idle) with only the screensaver running as under "maximum load", then the answer to your question is yes. I would suggest that the Radeon was under load but not the CPU as verified again by the activity monitor. An additional point is that when you bring down the Energy Saver menu, it too showed no programs using energy. The thermal issue appears to be mostly hardware based (PCIe4 and Radeon).

So really my implied point was this - if the system gets this hot with an almost zero cpu load, then when you do turn on all cores, to actually do something, the thermal issue can only be exacerbated.

This is my first Apple machine and I treated it as I have my Windows PC, namely that I plug in my external monitor and go about my business. I had the Drift screen saver enabled because it looked gorgeous. After returning from lunch I was absolutely shocked that the metal between the touch bar and the MacBook Pro logo was extremely hot. A little experimenting pointed the finger at the Radeon adapter. The thermal overhead that it adds is NOT well managed by the SMC. This aligns with an article from Anandtech that pointed out that the system handles PL1 (Intel' term for CPU using only the baseline clock) well but not PL2 (Intel' term for CPU under max spec'd overclocking). PL2 has a much higher power draw and therefor a higher thermal overhead. Bottom line is that the fans IMHO kick in too little and too late to make for a comfortable typing experience. And so both were returned.
 
Freida said:
Hey guys,

I was suprised as I just bought an iMac in main Apple store in my town and when I turned it on it still has previous OS. (Mojave)
So that tells me, that it must have been sitting there for ages. Is that really normal?
Or does Apple no longer changes to Catalina because of the tepid reception?

I just find it sad that brand new machine is this "old". :D :D :D
Click to expand...

If you are sad about your purchase why don’t you return it? Otherwise just be happy that you have a working machine. Problem solved.
 
jardinager said:
It doesn't work that way. The model you bought shipped with Mojave and that's what you get. An iMac produced yesterday in China also ships with Mojave.

The only new Mac hardware that ships with Catalina is the 16" MBP.

Be glad yours shipped with Mojave.
Click to expand...
wrong on this.
 
That is weird and yeah, I'll be returning mine.

BluePlanet said:
Hi All. First post so please be patient with me if I screw this up. This thread is related to my own recent experiences. Bought the MBP 16" i9 and returned it after 13 days due to heat issues. Next bought the MBP 16" i7 and returned it for the same reason. Currently waiting on the delivery of a BTO 2019 iMac i5 512 SSD with extended keyboard and trackpad. Should be here on Tuesday. Manufactured in Cork, transferred to Shannon, and currently departing Europe from Koeln, Germany.

The heat issues experienced were pretty much identical on both MBPs and are easily reproducible. The secret recipe is:
- Disable automatic graphics switching via System Preferences.
- Select "Drift" as the screensaver of choice.
- Make certain there are no apps running since this is a test of the system under cpu idle conditions.
- Let the screensaver engage and wait 15 minutes or so.
- Using either Intel Power Gadget or TC Pro (I used both), check out the temp. On each of mine it went from 35C to 70C.
- Re-engage the screensaver and wait another 15 minutes. I found the i7 slightly under TDP whereas the i9 had exceeded it by 5C (at 105C).

Both systems were very uncomfortable to type on due to the heat rising through the keyboard. Also, worried that this system would not hold up in the long term. The heat is all caused by the Radeon. When you disable graphics switching, the MBP is forced to use the Radeon rather than the intel 620. My normal setup is to use a laptop with my 27" LG 4K monitor which also caused the Radeon to engage.

BTW, the fans do kick in. Idle on the fans was around 2100 rpm (this is with the at 35C). At 90C, the fans were up to 2400 rpm. Rather than let the system bake, I used TC pro to bring the fans to max rpm (4500 rpm if I remember correctly). The fans brought the system temp down to 55C. I experimented with it for a while to learn more but the bottom line for me is that the MBP 16" is not a comfortable laptop to use in the long term.

One other point, the i9 came with Mojave but immediately down loaded Catalina (all 3GBs of it) without giving me the choice to keep it at Mojave. The i7 came with Catalina fully installed.

Curious how the Imac will turnout next week when I receive it.
Click to expand...
[automerge]1581347864[/automerge]
I will return it. I've found few issues that I was hesitant about but wanted to try. Now I know its definite no go.

a) the fusion drive is terrible - it really sucks
b) the HDD makes constant noise and its so annoying. It bothers me more than the fans that run

So yeah, its going back. Being on SSD for the past 8 years I thought everyday use wouldn't show much difference unless I was moving data but boy was I wrong. Spinning drives these days - no bloody way.
So yeah, its going back and I will order new one with SSD. I might wait to WWDC though first :)
Glad I had this experiment as it clearly showed me why people are really complaining about no SSD as standard.

:)

The machine is cool though but bezels are awful. Can't get used to it in 2020. Sorry Apple but it really is time to reduce those bezels and freshen up the machine. That space could be used for bigger screen which I personally would appreciate. 27" is a touch too small considering the footprint :)


baypharm said:
If you are sad about your purchase why don’t you return it? Otherwise just be happy that you have a working machine. Problem solved.
Click to expand...
 
Freida wrote:
"So yeah, its going back and I will order new one with SSD. I might wait to WWDC though first :)
Glad I had this experiment as it clearly showed me why people are really complaining about no SSD as standard."

Well, we tried to warn you!

Some thoughts:

You can return what you have, then buy one with an SSD from the Apple-refurbished store. Same one-year warranty as new, you can buy AppleCare. More for your money this way.

You could order a new one with SSD through Apple's "build-to-order" online page.
BUT... considering the crisis with the coronavirus in China, there's no telling WHEN a custom-configured Mac will actually "get built" there. Could be one month, could be two, could be...????

You could buy a "pre-built" with an SSD from a place like B&H Photo. They're one of the very few places that pre-order Macs in custom configurations so they can be shipped immediately. HOWEVER -- B&H has VERY strict return policies regarding computers. Once you open the box, no return ... "it's yours".

Last option:
Wait for a 2020, if there is to be one.
Unknown at this time.
 
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