Just couldn't wait on the modular MacPro any longer.

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by DearthnVader, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Location:
    Red Springs, NC
    #1
    Broke down and pulled the trigger on ordering parts for a new PC, It put a real dent in my Mac Pro funds. I really only upgrade every 8-10 years, however when the nMP shipped I was due and upgrade. nMP not having any real way to upgrade the parts, I didn't feel it was a good fit for me, as I can't really be locked in the same CPU and Video card for 8-10 years, plus I don't enjoy a mess of wires and external boxes just to have more than one storage drive.

    I was putting some thought into the iMac Pro, I think it's a nice machine, but I like to tinker, and really need PCI-E slots.

    No guarantee that the modular MacPro will fit my needs either, and I don't see why Apple needs years to design a Pro system. When new Intel Chipsets launch, other manufacturers are ready on day one, with new systems based on these chipsets.

    Apple needs to quit trying to reinvent the wheel, a Pro system comes in tower form, people like me expect PCI-E slots, a socketed CPU, and lots of Ram slots.

    Apple is losing sales.
     
  2. MarkJames68 macrumors 6502

    MarkJames68

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    Sep 24, 2017
  3. wonderspark macrumors 68040

    wonderspark

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Location:
    Oregon
    #3
    I don't blame you. I've been running a bunch of possible PC builds through PC Part Picker. The last theoretical build was an i7-7820x based one that I'm now lusting after.
     
  4. DevNull0 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    #4
    I don't know what budget people are anticipating for the MP.

    I'm expecting physical separate modules, a core unit basically with the CPU at the same price point as the trashcan pro. Then the external video card enclosure is $600+the value of the video card. Proprietary external boxes for NVMe and 3.5" drive bays; docks/hubs; etc all as expensive external boxes.

    Then all you get for the $$$$$ is a desk strewn with an untidy mess of boxes and modules.

    I don't think modular is the right word to describe a single box with plug and play internal components.
     
  5. fendersrule macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2008
    #5
    There's internal modularity and external modularity.

    Both are modular (cMP and nMP). But one just happens to look very tidy, unlike the other one...
     
  6. DevNull0 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    #6
    Absolutely. But internal modularity would be 180 degrees opposed to everything Apple has done since Tim took over.
     
  7. pat500000 macrumors 604

    pat500000

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    #7


    Time to whip Apple people real good. They need motivation...so be it.
     
  8. ChrisA macrumors G4

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    Jan 5, 2006
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, California
    #8
    I just bought an HP Workstation that came off lease. It's a 8-core (16 logical cores) Xeon with64GB of ECC RAM and two PCIe slots. Paid $500. To this I added an SSD and a couple Video GPU cards. I Use it as a compute engine and irundnheadless in a closet. Cost just oder $1K and is way faster then anything Apple sells. The HP workstations are buildt like tanks and can be completely disassembled with no tools. Very impressive performance. Runs Ubuntu linux.
     
  9. poematik13 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2014
    #9
    Does it have TB3 ports?
    Did you install a PCI-E SSD?
    Does it have the latest wifi and BT specs?

    If not, your statement is wrong.
     
  10. mp2017 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    #10
    There are too many factors which would qualify one system faster than another making neither statement, his or yours, correct in every situation.
     
  11. AidenShaw macrumors P6

    AidenShaw

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2003
    Location:
    The Peninsula
    #11
    It has up to PCIe 3.0 x16 slots - why would it need T-Bolt 3's measly four lanes?

    T-Bolt is a nice solution for laptop expansion - but not so useful in the commodity workstation world.

    Easily could have - even an NVMe drive - since it has PCIe slots. It could also be that ChrisA's workflow isn't limited by SATA's bandwidth - so the point is moot.

    Why would you use anything but copper cabling for a fixed workstation? Full duplex 1GbE is consistently faster than "shared" radio waves even under the best conditions.

    YMMV. I took the comment as being relative to ChrisA's own workflow.
     
  12. DevNull0 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    #12
    a) The mac pro has none of the things you listed.
    b) I don't think you quite understand how slow everything from Apple is these days compared to the rest of the world. His machine at $1000 is several times faster than anything Apple has on the market even though they range up to $8000; and that doesn't even address the video cards.
    c) The machine the previous poster is talking about can have all of the above and much, much more because it has industry standard PCIe ports.
     
  13. mp2017 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    #13
    The 6,1 Mac Pro does have PCI-e SSD.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 23, 2017 ---
    Which model did you purchase?
     
  14. devon807 macrumors 6502

    devon807

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Location:
    Virginia
    #14
    I also have (partially) jumped ship. I too purchased a dual Xeon Dell Workstation T7600 for an insane price of $165. I just bought two new E5-2643's for it. Im am working on getting it up and running with MacOS now. In its current state, my 5,1 is a lot faster, but one the new CPUS are in the Dell will be a lot faster.
     
  15. ChrisA macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, California
    #15
    Yes it does depend on what you need the computer for. Mine runs headless in a closet as a compute engine so none of that stuff maters and not being portable it uses Ethernet. I took the WiFi out. It runs fast for my use which is machine learning experiments and robot simulations.

    This computer is really a local substitute for Amazon AWS

    But if you wanted to use it for running Final Cut Pro, it would fail badly

    I guess what this proves is that if you have s specific need for a computer you can get the cost down by buying only what you need. Or renting. I like this option. An Amazon server with an 8GB Nvidia GPU costs 40 cents an hour.
     
  16. EnderBeta macrumors 6502

    EnderBeta

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    #16
    I have a 2013 nMP with a 3.5GHz 6 core Xeon, 16GB RAm, D700 cards and a 512GB SSD. It’s ok but more for a machine I take with me on the road. Because of its size I can easily throw it in a backpack and take it to job items that already have monitors available for me to use.

    However I also have a system I built myself that uses a 5930K @ 4.7GHz with 32GB RAM two GTX 1080s and two 480GB SATA3 SSD drives in RAID0 for the primary drive. It has three additional 3TB 7200RPM drives for mass storage. I have it running MacOS Sierra and Windows 10. It’s faster in every metric that matters then the MacPro.

    The one thing I will say about the nMP is it is a very quite machine. However I would never have bought it with my own money. The price to performance is a joke and the only benefit it has my 13” MacBook Pro is still better for anyways (portability)

    I’m not interested in the iMac Pro. Apple is going to have to wow me with the modular Mac Pro or no sale when the time comes. In all honesty I have found myself using Windows 10 more on my hackintosh then MacOS. It doesn’t bode well for Apple in my opinion.
     
  17. ChrisA macrumors G4

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    Jan 5, 2006
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, California
    #17
    What software do you use on you computer that makes you need high-end compute power? For most people a Chromebook would be all they need.

    I'm thinking the only mac-only software that requires lots of compute is Final Cut Pro.
     
  18. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Location:
    Red Springs, NC
    #18
    Been a macOS guy for so long, I really hate to change, but the hardware I ordered really isn't macOS compatible.

    I'll likely be using Ubuntu, can't stand Windows, and I need the Unix/Linux command line.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 23, 2017 ---
    I'm thinking you're right, at first, when I heard "modular", I was stoked, thinking they were going to release a desktop tower, that would be internally upgradable. After listening to what others thought "modular" meant, I can see there is some ambiguity to the term.

    That's why I saying to Apple, quit trying to reinvent the wheel, quit telling us what you think we need, and sell us what we say we need. The nMP was a debacle, and I can't imagine Apple didn't lose billions in sales to real Pro workstations. Likely, millions of people that won't be coming back to the macOS.

    I understand, the Mac is a third class citizen at the new Apple, Mac sales make up such a small piece of Apple's net sales. Like coming to the realization that movies are made to appeal to people under 30, because they are the one's that show up to movie theaters.

    I'm just not Apple's target market, time for me to move on.
     
  19. DevNull0 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    #19
    Why is it so hard to understand people need serious computing power. Where do you think all the iToy apps come from? Games, software, movies, music, photography, etc. All need as much computer power as they can get. Pretty much any content creation a few $k for a decent computer is nothing.

    Then prosumers are a group too. People do any of the above or more as a hobby, they've got the money, and they want the pro tools. Why should I limit myself to a chromebook because you believe it's all I need when I'm got the money for an i9 workstation and that's what I want?

    And for what Apple charges for a "Mac Pro" they damn well should be offering the best available of everything. The i9-7900X processor is only $1000, why is Apple's $8000 computer giving you a cheap gimped CPU? Plenty of people are willing to shell out the cash, Apple is not willing to make a product much better than a chromebook.
     
  20. EnderBeta macrumors 6502

    EnderBeta

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    #20
    Maya mostly rendering with MentalRay for my personal projects.

    Gaming. 4K gaming max settings 60+FPS requires a lot of power.

    I’m also working on a software package that I call a Distributed AV. It’s a few months off from entering the testing phase but once it does I’m going to need my hackintosh running A couple dozen Windows VMs. Only the server one is going to be beefy. The rest will be stress testing the server to make sure it doesn’t buckle under load and help me optimize it.

    I intend to also run a few more vms to emulate a dozen Biamp Tesira and Cisco Sx series codecs as well as Extron switchers. The computer will emulate these devices to create a virtual network of equipment in order to demonstrate my software being able to drive an office’s worth of equipment from one machine concurrently. Handling a couple dozen AV systems worth of equipment in a building. Each with their own polling and real time feedback in a simulated environment. Not to mention the machine also has to host the SQL Server that the server is utilizing. It’s resource intensive and will probably require I double my RAM when I’m ready.
     
  21. Larry-K macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    #21
    You mean you won't even come back for another batch of Emojis?
     
  22. MisterAndrew macrumors 6502a

    MisterAndrew

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    #22
    If you're fine using Linux or Windows there isn't a reason to be held back by Apple in the hardware department, but if you use MacOS I don't see what you would exactly be using your computer for that a heavily modded cMP 5,1 couldn't handle. I plan to use mine long after the 7,1 is released, at least until I can't update the OS on it anymore.
     
  23. William Payne macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Location:
    Wanganui, New Zealand.
    #23
    I personally don't see what's wrong with an environment where both Mac and PC are used. I like my Mac for my photography, but if I was doing Cad work or scientific work where a PC was better suited then I would have no problem with that. I wouldn't even really have a problem with using both in the same workflow. Say having a custom PC perhaps for heavy rendering or whatever where I can let that do its thing while continuing to work on the macs.

    I say buy what best suits your needs and if you are happy then that is what matters.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 24, 2017 ---
    Though I must say full disclosure, at home I'm often running a Windows laptop and my Mac Pro at the same time.
     
  24. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Location:
    Red Springs, NC
    #24
    Well, the macOS is nice, I can use it for almost everything I do. Tho Apple's decision to go with Metal rather than Vulcan is perplexing, and no PCI passthrough.
     
  25. William Payne macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Location:
    Wanganui, New Zealand.
    #25
    What benefits would one get from Vulkan?
     

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