Just playing devil's advocate here. ...

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by td2243, Mar 8, 2015.

  1. td2243 macrumors 6502

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    #1
    I am not an expert in this stuff, but am trying to wrap my head around some tech questions. So, in early 2014 I bought a maxed out iMac 27", because I wanted to wait on a nMP. When they were announced 20 months ago, people were saying "it will really be worth it when software takes full use of the 2 CPUs."

    Well, it is 20 months later and people are still saying ... "When the software is rewritten" for yada yada yada.

    My question is... Do we know if companies are planning this switch? Does FCPX still the only program out there which makes full use? Is Adobe moving that way?

    You can tell that I don't really understand all of the tech part of this, so when I read the common "it hasn't reached its full potential yet" about the nMP, it doesn't make me want to get one yet. Maybe I'm missing something. I want one, but other threads don't make me think I'd be making a big jump from my iMac.
     
  2. Synchro3, Mar 8, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015

    Synchro3 macrumors 65816

    Synchro3

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    #2
    You wanted to say "it will really be worth it when software takes full use of the 2 GPUs.", not 'CPUs', i guess.
     
  3. td2243 thread starter macrumors 6502

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  4. IowaLynn macrumors 6502a

    IowaLynn

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    #4
    February 6th, 2015 -- Dual GeForce GTX 980s vs other Dual GPUs running multi-gpu 'aware' apps

    There are other benchmark tests on that site. Including FCPX and Motion. X-Plane does not even fully utilize one let alone two yet would seem from the outside to be an ideal app for GPU to do more.

    Apple lagged in drivers and performance. Same hardware running Windows on same Mac hardware would outperform OS X, the Classic Mac Pro though shows its value in using dual AMD or Nvidia
     
  5. xcodeSyn macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    I really think you asked a relevant question of why buying a nMP, how many multi-GPU aware applications are available? and I'm surprised not many responses so far. In Barefeats' multi-GPU tests here and here, they used After Effects' Ray-traced 3D (CUDA), Octane Render (CUDA), LuxMark, and DaVinci Resolve. If there are more I'm sure they would be included eventually. But right now I don't see a trend going that direction for commercial applications.

    I found this article interesting and it pointed out why GPGPU may still have a long way to go, and note that it was written in 2012, way before nMP was introduced. Since Adobe's main market focus has shifted to Windows a while ago, you should ask yourself has any other manufacturer following Apple's lead by including 2 GPUs in their workstations? If the demand isn't there yet, Adobe may have no strong incentives to accelerate their development. I hope Adobe or others would prove me wrong on this one though.
     
  6. td2243 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #6

    I thought my question was relevant too, so thank you for the response. I agree. I don't see a movement by companies toward multi-GPU apps, which makes me wonder will we ever? If we don't, then it seems Apple was gambling on companies changing their software structure to work better with the nMP. The lack thereof seems we will never see the "full potential" being used on nMP, unless you edit with FCPX, which I don't.
     
  7. MacVidCards Suspended

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    #7
    Interesting thoughts.

    Consider this, even a lowly 9500GT from Nvidia has an SLI connector on it, but almost NOBODY ever uses it. In theory you could put 4 of them in a Mac Pro and use OpenCl or CUDA with the GPGPU power of 4 of them.

    But you would be infinitely better off just getting a GTX980 and using the other 3 slots for whatever you wanted. One good card is better than 2 crappy ones. But better still is being able to remove that GTX980 when the Titan-X comes out and selling the 980 to help fund the Titan-X.

    And this is where nMP falls down. Nobody wants 2 crappy GPUs. Most either don't care at all, or want 1 good one. Other workstations don't consider whether one or two or 5 GPUs is best because they let YOU decide.

    I recall the vocal apologists used to hold out hope that Apple would be offering GPU upgrades. But as each product line gains more soldered in RAM and GPUs and FEWER choices, who still thinks this is going to happen? Most of those vocal apologists have moved on. They either finally saw through the hype, or their PR contract came up.

    Those Barefeats benchmarks say it all. Two D700s were OK. But 2 @ 980s leaves them for dead. And on a slower bus with slower single thread CPU and slower RAM and everything else. And the cMP with Dual 980s was so far ahead the D700s lost sight of it's taillights.

    And there is nothing to be done about it. Ironically, the best hope for nMP remaining relevant into 2016 is from us. We have been only ones to demonstrate a working eGPU in nMP. (Anyone can get CUDA from nMP, getting it to output via eGPU has been closed off by Apple...we wedged the door open)

    Apple solved a bunch or problems that nobody had with nMP. Who needs 2 crappy GPUs? Someone who wants to run a bunch of screens with simple images on them. For most other people, either 1 crappy GPU or one awesome GPU is a better choice.
     
  8. xcodeSyn, Mar 9, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015

    xcodeSyn macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    It may still be too early to tell whether the attempt is a failure, but buying a high-end iMac, use for 2-3 years and replace it before AppleCare expires is probably a much better plan for most users under current situation.


    I think you nail it right here especially when 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes were being wasted most of the time. Man, I still remember those ugly days when you were taking time-out multiple times. At least now those supporters got their newest memo and only argue for its better CPU and finally leave the GPU alone.
     
  9. xcodeSyn macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    Someone in the "I just ordered/bought ... " thread mentioned that Pixelmator included OpenCL code optimized for nMP and it was confirmed here.
     
  10. flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #10
    gpu upgrades will become available as time passes.. the same type of 'apple took this from me :mad:' or 'no gpu upgrades :mad:' stuff was said when the other mac pro came out but now you tout it as the endallbeall of upgradism..

    funny thing, you yourself will eventually sell a gpu upgrade for nmp.
     
  11. MacVidCards Suspended

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    #11
    What "other Mac pro"?

    I have no idea what you are talking about. And I'm pretty sure you don't either.

    After months of spewing "greatest thing since sliced bread" type hooey and "it's the screws, the screws prove Apple will sell GPU upgrades" you ran out and bought an iMac instead.

    Always good for a laugh though.
     
  12. flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #12
    there's the old mac pro and the new mac pro.. the one that's not the new mac pro

    no.. the screws mean that it's user serviceable.. make up whatever kind of stuff you want but you fought me for probably a year.. kept telling me how stupid i was etcetc.. but if you pull your head out of the ash, you'd realize that all the stuff i said so far is right.. you told me i was so wrong about so much stuff-- just like you're trying to do now-- but turns out, i wasn't wrong.
     
  13. MacVidCards Suspended

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    #13
    Oh, like those GPU upgrades you predicted?

    Yep, they're great.

    Back on the ignore list, no time for drivel.
     
  14. flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #14
    ssdd

    you know, i've been on your ignore least at least 6 times now.. curious-> when do you decide to unignore someone? like once a month you go through your ban list and clean the slate.. or something?
     
  15. fuchsdh macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    The GPUs *are* upgradeable, the question is whether Apple or someone else will actually offer standalone upgrades.

    That's a question that won't actually be answered until they revise the current model.
     
  16. MacVidCards, Mar 11, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015

    MacVidCards Suspended

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    #16
    There's those asterisks again.

    I'm sorry but 1 year and 9 months after they were announced we still have same tired old GPUs it came with.

    Saying something is upgradeable but there aren't any upgrades is rather cynical.

    Sort of like saying: the new iMac can hold 256 GB of RAM !!! *

    *(If and when 128GB RAM sticks become available)

    We used to call such things "VapourWare" but you can call it an upgrade if you like. Just remember to keep including the asterisks.

    Most of us would just say such a thing doesn't exist.

    Actually, I kind of like this.

    My Retina MacBook will be getting the Unlimited Plutonium 1,000,000Amp/Hr Battery !!!! *

    *(If and when such battery becomes available)

    And my iPad will be getting the World Wide SatPhone WiFi Chip Upgrade for never-ending, FREE WiFi !!!*

    *(If and when such Chip becomes available)

    Anyone want to bet which of the four mentioned upgrades will come first?

    (None of them exist now, but they sorta do since I can say they could, right?)
     
  17. fuchsdh macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    The asterisks are emphasis.
     
  18. thats all folks macrumors 6502a

    thats all folks

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    #18
    No.

    all we know is that the GPUs are serviceable. It looks like Apple wont be providing an upgrade part. Can anyone else make one? you are assuming it is easy but these parts are not based on established and well used standards. and it's more likely that they are locked behind several Apple patents. You want AMD or Nvidia to reverse engineer Apple's interface and then custom manufacture a niche product for an indeterminable (but certainly small) market that could dissapear quickly if Apple chooses a new connector/interface for the next trash can? nope.
     
  19. flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #19
    the first upgrades will more likely than not be the gpus available in the future versions.. (d500 -> d600.. for example)
     

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