Justify M4 Pro Mac mini over M4 Purely for Future Proofing?

[Chuckeee]

History is one of the best indicators of future performance.

Ask yourself: How long have you kept you previous Mac before upgrading?

If you have an established previous history of buying, keeping & using your previous Mac for awhile (at least 7+ years) then buying upgrades with your initial purchase for the purpose of “future proofing” might be a reasonable strategy.

But if you have a previous history of upgrading your purchase after just a few years. You probably shouldn’t consider “future proofing”.

If you think this purchase will be different than your previous purchases. (I will keep this Mac for a lot longer than my previous purchases). You are probably deluding yourself, and you shouldn’t be considering “future proofing” either.

 

[hajime]

enough for what? The reality is only you know. Bring up your activity monitor and just let the memory side sit open and do what you do normally.

If I see swap using on a 16GB Mini M4 but no swap on a 24GB Mini M4, is it better to get the 24GB one?

 

[hajime]

I have a USB 3.2 SSD enclosure. I don’t have a TB3/4 SSD enclosure as I had been waiting for TB5. I may end up a configuration of 16/24GB RAM and 512GB SSD.

If I need a faster external SSD enclosure since the Mini has only has an internal 512GB SSD, is it better to buy the M4 or M4 Pro? Even I buy a TB4 SSD enclosure now, I will probably buy a TB5 SSD enclosure in 1-2 years. By then I will need to buy M5/M6 Pro and the 1m2 TB4 enclosure will be collecting dust.

 

[bzgnyc2]

If I see swap using on a 16GB Mini M4 but no swap on a 24GB Mini M4, is it better to get the 24GB one?

Occasionally swap isn't bad with modern hardware and OS. However, if your system has to actively swap in order to run your workload, you aren't getting your M4's worth of performance.

It's a little easier to tell from the swapins/swapouts of "top" (from Terminal) than Activity Monitor but if the latter is yellow or red when doing your normal work that's a good sign you need more RAM. If you can tell that program A runs slower just by having program B sitting in the background and you generally want both open, that's a good sign you need more RAM.

As far as future proofing, to borrow from one of the US's fallan political leaders, I'd say you've got three factors :
-The known knowns
-The known unknowns
-The unknown unknowns

The known knowns is what you are doing now or can readily project based on your plans.

The known unknowns includes the average YoY growth of applications and data. I read that every year batteries grow in capacity about 8% despite a paraade of breakthoughs. It's not that these breakthroughs don't work, it's just that by the time they get commercialized and into products, the series of discrete breakthoughs always seems to average 8% YoY. There are always different reasons why applications/data grow but in the end they just do. Get a rough number for this over the expected life of your system and multiply by your known knowns.

Tnen there are the unknown unknowns. Like you're cruising along and then some new technology (like years ago 3D or now LLM or whatever) comes requiring a new level of capabiltiies. The thing is even if you can predict these things you can't buy the technology too far head of schedule. Even if we have a revolution in accessible quantum computing and Office 2035 or whatever makes that a baseline, it doesn't matter now because you can't even buy a fraction of it now. As such this one is easiest -- just ignore it (unless you work for a giant organization and literally that's your job).

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Typical replacement cycle is

- 4 years for Macs
- 5-6 years for PC

The price difference of the non-Pro vs Pro could be spent years later.

I am still using a 2019 iMac with the 27" 5K screen for photo editing. It's slow, even with somewhere around 48GB of RAM, and its 2TB Fusion drive. I paid somewhere under $200.00 for the Crucial RAM sticks. This iMac has a RAM access panel at the back, so it only takes a couple of minutes to install the RAM modules. I plan to replace the hard drive with a 2TB to perhaps 4TB SSD in the near future (maybe during the summer).

 

[green_diyos]

I am still using a 2019 iMac with the 27" 5K screen for photo editing. It's slow, even with somewhere around 48GB of RAM, and its 2TB Fusion drive. I paid somewhere under $200.00 for the Crucial RAM sticks. This iMac has a RAM access panel at the back, so it only takes a couple of minutes to install the RAM modules. I plan to replace the hard drive with a 2TB to perhaps 4TB SSD in the near future (maybe during the summer).

GO all out and replace it with a 8TB 2.5" SSD!

 

[AlaskaMoose]

GO all out and replace it with a 8TB 2.5" SSD!

2TB SSD plus the replacement kit, if I do it myself, would cost around $250.00 at the most. 4TB is more than plenty, and would bring the cost to maybe... $400.00.

 

[green_diyos]

2TB SSD plus the replacement kit, if I do it myself, would cost around $250.00 at the most. 4TB is more than plenty, and would bring the cost to maybe... $400.00.

Better to do the replacing 1x rather than 2x.

 

[bzgnyc2]

I am still using a 2019 iMac with the 27" 5K screen for photo editing. It's slow, even with somewhere around 48GB of RAM, and its 2TB Fusion drive. I paid somewhere under $200.00 for the Crucial RAM sticks. This iMac has a RAM access panel at the back, so it only takes a couple of minutes to install the RAM modules. I plan to replace the hard drive with a 2TB to perhaps 4TB SSD in the near future (maybe during the summer).

Replacing that drive with a modern SSD may be a more dramatic improvement than you expect. Unless macOS/APFS is still optimized to take advantage of the Fusion drive, it's probably functioning no better than a regular HDD. In which case the upgrade to a SSD will be dramatic. Modern software just isn't optimized for mechanical drives anymore so they are becoming increasingly painful.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Replacing that drive with a modern SSD may be a more dramatic improvement than you expect. Unless macOS/APFS is still optimized to take advantage of the Fusion drive, it's probably functioning no better than a regular HDD. In which case the upgrade to a SSD will be dramatic. Modern software just isn't optimized for mechanical drives anymore so they are becoming increasingly painful.

You may be correct. This iMac is running under Sequoia. I usually turn it off for several days or weeks if not editing photos, but I have never had any trouble other that a little slow for certain functions. For example, if editing with Photo Lab 7 and switching to NIK apps within Photo Lab, it takes a few seconds of waiting for the NIK app to launch. Other apps I use are OneOne's Photo RAW 2024, and version 1 (I believe) of Affinity Photo. I save the RAW and edited photos to external HDs and SSDs.

Several years ago I replaced the HD of my 2011 iMac with a 1TB SSD, and it performed quite well. Then I bought the 2019 iMac, and put the 2011 in in a storage room, so I am assuming that replacing the 2TB Fusion HD with a 2TB SSD will make the iMac a little faster

 

[Significant1]

Typical replacement cycle is

- 4 years for Macs
- 5-6 years for PC

The price difference of the non-Pro vs Pro could be spent years later.

Did you just make them up, or do you have data to back it up. Personally I have never had a pc last as long as my Macs. And even when replaced, they are still working and relocated to a niche/backup function.

 

[green_diyos]

Did you just make them up, or do you have data to back it up. Personally I have never had a pc last as long as my Macs. And even when replaced, they are still working and relocated to a niche/backup function.

PC


Mac

That's what their market survey observed. If you replace annually or per decade is largely up to you.

 

[TheRealAlex]

M4 Pro has 8 Performance Cores and is faster than Intel or AMDs fastest CPUs that cost more for the just the CPU alone.
The regular M4 is limited to just 4 Performance Cores that’s unacceptable. Especially with Apple AI.

 

[Significant1]

M4 Pro has 8 Performance Cores and is faster than Intel or AMDs fastest CPUs that cost more for the just the CPU alone.
The regular M4 is limited to just 4 Performance Cores that’s unacceptable. Especially with Apple AI.

AI isn't limited by cpu cores, but gpu cores

 

[smirking]

M4 Pro has 8 Performance Cores and is faster than Intel or AMDs fastest CPUs that cost more for the just the CPU alone.
The regular M4 is limited to just 4 Performance Cores that’s unacceptable. Especially with Apple AI.

If you know that Apple AI is something you will highly value, by all means base your purchasing decisions around it. Otherwise, buying your Mac based on Apple Intelligence in 2024 is like buying your Mac because of Siri in 2014.

Even if Apple Intelligence is flawless, it's still not a slam dunk to be something you can't live without. Until proven otherwise, it's still just marketing hype and buying into hype is an expensive way to live life.

Just buy the computer that you know you'll use.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

If you know that Apple AI is something you will highly value, by all means base your purchasing decisions around it. Otherwise, buying your Mac based on Apple Intelligence in 2024 is like buying your Mac because of Siri in 2014.

Even if Apple Intelligence is flawless, it's still not a slam dunk to be something you can't live without. Until proven otherwise, it's still just marketing hype and buying into hype is an expensive way to live life.

Just buy the computer that you know you'll use.

That's exactly what Apple Intelligence is at the moment. You will notice that there are a few iPhone commercials where "intelligence" is not longer advertised. Also, there are several videos at YouTube where the hosts, iPhone 16 users, compare Apple intelligence to the AI used in the latest Android phones. Even Alexa is far ahead of Siri. Something else, look at how well the AI feature in WhatsApp works compared to iMessage.

 

[green_diyos]

Personally I have never had a pc last as long as my Macs.

Replacement cycle may be more related to the user's financial ability to replace sooner than later.

Cheapest Mac is the $599 2024 Mac mini M4 16GB 256GB. For the money it's such a bargain. If you're student/faculty then you can push that down to $499.

But ~80% all computers shipped worldwide annually of are laptops so that price point goes up to $999 for the Macbook Air 13" M2 16GB 256GB. If you're student/faculty then you can push that down to $899.

Most Windows users have cheaper machines than that and it appears tend to keep them longer because their finances does not allow them to change that often.

From an anti-trust point of view I dont want Apple entering that market.

 

[adam9c1]

None of my computers were purchased new!

I've gotten spoiled by a MacPro4,1 with 128GB RAM! Started out with dual CPU tray and build out slowly.

Since then, had several 4,1 and 5,1, then moved to Mac mini 2014, 2018, and shifted gears = went to the 2013 Trashcan.
128 RAM, then 64 RAM.
Sequoia was bad, moved back to Sonoma...

Thinking of going with a mini M4, 32, 1TB... as perhaps with newer processing I will be OK. I'm processing at 46-48GB
The jump from M4/32 to M4 Pro /64 is almost 2x the cost of the machine.

I think I need to change how I approach home computer lifecycle to be closer aligned with phones.

 

[AudibleNectar]

I skipped the pro version as I'm not doing any video editing or complex coding tasks either, more just a multimedia machine. It's pretty typical that I'll swap these out every 6-7 years, I bought an Intel i7 for the previous Mac and took an M4 here six years later.

It's doubtful that in seven years I'm going to be looking at this machine and saying "the M4 pro really gave me another year", the thinking is that in six years plus, I'm going to probably want another more up to date chip where that software is written for use in chips more recent/current at the time.

I took 8 extra gig up top and a 1TB SSD. Should be plenty.

 

[AudibleNectar]

None of my computers were purchased new!

I've gotten spoiled by a MacPro4,1 with 128GB RAM! Started out with dual CPU tray and build out slowly.

Since then, had several 4,1 and 5,1, then moved to Mac mini 2014, 2018, and shifted gears = went to the 2013 Trashcan.
128 RAM, then 64 RAM.
Sequoia was bad, moved back to Sonoma...

Thinking of going with a mini M4, 32, 1TB... as perhaps with newer processing I will be OK. I'm processing at 46-48GB
The jump from M4/32 to M4 Pro /64 is almost 2x the cost of the machine.

I think I need to change how I approach home computer lifecycle to be closer aligned with phones.

Sequoia wasn't very good on my 2018 i7 Intel Mac mini, but it's noticeably better on the M4. One reason I ditched the old one was that I have a pretty good idea/bet that the newer software written for Apple chips would run smoother, and it seems to be playing out.

There's a whole world of glitchy stuff that the old Mini had going within my system, this one is noticeably better in a number of little aspects. It was true of Ventura, too. I have as an example an HDMI going from my Mini to the HT preamp, and if I turn the input away from the Mini to another component, then back - the Mini would not get any audio through the HT system, so I would have to reboot while that HT input on the preamp was in the proper position. Now with the new M4, that glitch is gone along with a bunch of other stuff noticeable.....and all on Sequoia.

I plan to see how long I can run this on a single "boot" to see how long it lasts. The old Mini would start "piling up the glitches" as it stayed running day over day, this one already seems a big improvement, and it's seen just over 24 hours of operation and trials.

 

[BeatCrazy]

A better form of 'future-proofing' might be to save some money on this purchase, and put it aside in a savings account for a new machine in 3-6 years. At this point, you'll know what you're actual needs are, and won't have to guess.

Your post reminded me of how in 2017 I wanted a 'future proof' ultra portable MacBook, so I invested an extra $200 to get 16GB of RAM for my 2017 12" Retina MacBook.

That extra RAM didn't help anything! And 3 years later, the based 8GB M1 MacBook came out and wiped the floor with the 12" MacBook.

Now that we know Apple will update each of its Macs every 12-18 months, and make tangible performance gains each time, it makes no sense to overpay for something you think you might need in 3-4 years. In that time, performance will likely be doubled, for the same relative cost.

 

[rtjstevens]

My dilemma:

I have a base M2 MiniPro. I like it, it serves me well and it drives an Apple Studio display. I have several external HDs and SSDs (including a 'spare' 2TB SSD - see later). I do run Win11 with Parallels and some Steam Games -eg Rail Sims. The lower spec games work OK but the frame rate on the higher spec versions is poor.

Upstairs in my Hobby Room I have a 4k Dell monitor driven by a RPi. It works well but it's frustrating not to be able, easily, to access my music, photos etc ...so I was thinking of a new M4 Mini with 512GB storage (I know I could just get the 256gb model and use my 2TB SSD). Then I keep reading that 16gB of RAM MAY not be enough in a few years time so, OK, 24GB then - but then that (inflated) price is 'only' about £400 less than the M4Pro version! (Clever Apple!).

So what do I do? If I'm going to buy the base M4 with extra storage and, perhaps, extra RAM, would I see, say, a better gaming experience with the aforementioned Win 11/Steam/ Rail Sims?. If not perhaps I need the Pro M4, or shall I just stick with the base M4 (non-Pro) and wait for the M5/6/7/8?

Thanks for reading,

Richard

 

[throAU]

I am not into heavy video or photo editing. I do, however, wonder if it makes sense to go m4 pro mini based on future proofing. If I am set on getting 24gb of ram either way (do a lot of research and zoom conferencing and such so the multitasking piece), is it worth it to go pro or stay with standard M4?

Future proofing in this manner is a fools errand. Put the money away and upgrade sooner unless you will actually make use of the higher spec hardware.

For the things you describe a base m4 will be more than capable; put the additional funds aside for the m6 upgrade or so which will be likely more powerful than m4 pro, and you'll be able to offload your still reasonably recent m4 at that point to combine with the money you set aside to mostly fund it.

You just don't know what new tech will be included in the base model next year or the year after, and thats stuff your higher end m4 just will not have - no matter how much you spend on it. Consider how some late model intel people must feel after attempting to "future proof" their i9s and stuff the year before M1 came out and their high end 15-16" machine was mostly outperformed by an M1 air.

 

[icemantx]

The entire concept of "future proofing" is somewhat of a fallacy in and of itself. Why? If by future proofing you mean supported apps or OS versions, Apple does not (at least that I can recall) drop support for certain configurations of a given release. Meaning if you bought the M1 MacBook Pro or M1 MacBook Air, they will both likely have support for the same amount of time. As time passes, the increase in performance from the upgrades diminish when compared to newer models.

 

[Miles Fu]

Future proofing in this manner is a fools errand. Put the money away and upgrade sooner unless you will actually make use of the higher spec hardware.

For the things you describe a base m4 will be more than capable; put the additional funds aside for the m6 upgrade or so which will be likely more powerful than m4 pro, and you'll be able to offload your still reasonably recent m4 at that point to combine with the money you set aside to mostly fund it.

You just don't know what new tech will be included in the base model next year or the year after, and thats stuff your higher end m4 just will not have - no matter how much you spend on it. Consider how some late model intel people must feel after attempting to "future proof" their i9s and stuff the year before M1 came out and their high end 15-16" machine was mostly outperformed by an M1 air.

Fully agree, as I bought the intel i9 16' MBP with much more money than M1