Keep my 2019 or go to 2020?

[golfgirlgolf]

I currently have the 2019 iMac 3.7 GHz Intel Core i5 Radeon Pro 580X 8GB w/64GB RAM and 2TB Fusion.

I do a lot of very intensive Photoshop etc. and am getting really frustrated with the speed, hangs, beachballs and slow save times.
It's possible my system has junk in it that's slowing things down - and I also use if for all my everyday things from Mail to Safari, Social etc.
I could do a completely clean install and try to move as much to externals as possible - with the exception of current projects. But I suspect a lot of my issues are slow HDD read/write times. A restart is a 10+ minute process waiting. My Macs never seem to run fast so I'm going back to ground zero and rebuilding. I have an old iMac in another rooom with SSD boot - and it's AMAZING how fast it is!

The above iMac has Applecare for another year so I don't want to crack the case and put in an SSD - so I was thinking of just selling and buying a 2020 - 3.8GHz Raedon Pro 5500XT - with 1TB SSD (that's the biggest Apple Refurb has) - the RAM requirements are identical so I can move the 64GB over if I don't want to go higher...

While I'm contemplating this I was wondering is there is much improvement/difference between the two? My 3.7 machine was pretty high end when I got it, but as we know every machine is dated by the end of each generation.... Moore's Law.

Anyway any input would be appreciated!

 

[Realityck]

I currently have the 2019 iMac 3.7 GHz Intel Core i5 Radeon Pro 580X 8GB w/64GB RAM and 2TB Fusion.

I do a lot of very intensive Photoshop etc. and am getting really frustrated with the speed, hangs, beachballs and slow save times.
It's possible my system has junk in it that's slowing things down - and I also use if for all my everyday things from Mail to Safari, Social etc.
I could do a completely clean install and try to move as much to externals as possible - with the exception of current projects. But I suspect a lot of my issues are slow HDD read/write times. A restart is a 10+ minute process waiting. My Macs never seem to run fast so I'm going back to ground zero and rebuilding. I have an old iMac in another rooom with SSD boot - and it's AMAZING how fast it is!

The above iMac has Applecare for another year so I don't want to crack the case and put in an SSD - so I was thinking of just selling and buying a 2020 - 3.8GHz Raedon Pro 5500XT - with 1TB SSD (that's the biggest Apple Refurb has) - the RAM requirements are identical so I can move the 64GB over if I don't want to go higher...

While I'm contemplating this I was wondering is there is much improvement/difference between the two? My 3.7 machine was pretty high end when I got it, but as we know every machine is dated by the end of each generation.... Moore's Law.

Anyway any input would be appreciated!

How long has it been since you restarted the computer using Option-Command-R and enter Mac Recovery Mode? The first thing you want to do is look at your Macintosh HD in Disk Utility. You'll want to run first aid on both the volumes (Macintosh HD and Data) if your currently running Big Sur. Another concern is that you are not utilizing a Fusion Dive, that you have two items showing in Disk Utility such as a 128GB SSD and a 2 TB HDD. As far as the swap yes the SDD would be faster R/W.

 

[Fishrrman]

You could plug in an EXTERNAL SSD, and use that as your boot/applications drive.
This might be a good interim solution until the large screen m-series iMacs show up later this year. When you do get something new, just unplug the external SSD and "re-purpose it" to the new Mac.

I can see of two ways to go:

First way:
Get an nvme drive (512gb would be fine, even 256gb).
Get a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure.
This will give you read speeds around 825MBps or better.

Second way:
Get an nvme drive (as above)
Get a thunderbolt 3 enclosure.
This will give you read speeds in excess of 2,000MBps (about the same as an internally-mounted SSD on that iMac). These drives do get "on the warm side" under heavy write loads.

You can either buy the components and snap them together, or buy something "pre-assembled".
I prefer to "build them myself", but that's just me.

If you absolutely, positively have-to-have a 2020 iMac, consider buying from Apple's "refurbished" pages. Could save a little $$$...

 

[golfgirlgolf]

How long has it been since you restarted the computer using Option-Command-R and enter Mac Recovery Mode? The first thing you want to do is look at your Macintosh HD in Disk Utility. You'll want to run first aid on both the volumes (Macintosh HD and Data) if your currently running Big Sur. Another concern is that you are not utilizing a Fusion Dive, that you have two items showing in Disk Utility such as a 128GB SSD and a 2 TB HDD. As far as the swap yes the SDD would be faster R/W.

I don't do Recovery mode unless there's serious trouble - but did run it this AM. Only one Fusion drive appears in DU - as pictured.
From Recovery - I ran First Aid on Macintosh HD as well as on the boot volume it listed. No issues to speak of - on the Macintosh HD something about unable to save something to do with Time Machine - but otherwise fine. I can't figure out where the log is saved from DU in Recovery Mode. No matter.... I also ran it on the boot volume MacOSstartup - or called something like that. It's fine.

FWIW I'm on Mojave at the moment but planning to update as part of this exercise. I always tend to lag behind a bit in OSX due to legacy software concerns.

I'm also in the process of off loading data to externals to free up space. I was even considering moving my Home folder to external if that wouldn't slow things down. (to begin acting kind of like I only a tiny SSD Internal - prepare for the future) I keep a dedicated Time Machine backup, a dedicated Chonosync bootable mirror backup, as well as 3 other HDDs with redundant data folder backups due to the sheer volume of media files which are kept on externals only once the project is finished.

I also keep a blank Admin account which runs much faster than my main account. This points to some potential goo in my user account - or just Adobe or too many other power hungry programs!

 

[golfgirlgolf]

You could plug in an EXTERNAL SSD, and use that as your boot/applications drive.
This might be a good interim solution until the large screen m-series iMacs show up later this year. When you do get something new, just unplug the external SSD and "re-purpose it" to the new Mac.

I can see of two ways to go:

First way:
Get an nvme drive (512gb would be fine, even 256gb).
Get a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure.
This will give you read speeds around 825MBps or better.

Second way:
Get an nvme drive (as above)
Get a thunderbolt 3 enclosure.
This will give you read speeds in excess of 2,000MBps (about the same as an internally-mounted SSD on that iMac). These drives do get "on the warm side" under heavy write loads.

You can either buy the components and snap them together, or buy something "pre-assembled".
I prefer to "build them myself", but that's just me.

If you absolutely, positively have-to-have a 2020 iMac, consider buying from Apple's "refurbished" pages. Could save a little $$$...

Thanks - I did consider a bootable SSD originally when I first got this iMac - the internal SSD models were super expensive and had horrible tiny capacity - so I passed and bought a Fusion model. Even the 2TB Fusion was a downgrade for me - having 3TB on my previous machine!

I did get a WD 512GB 3.1 Gen 2 external SSD to try out back then - but it's only 540MBps at it's peak. After that test I just gave up. Nvme on Thunderbolt 3 does sound promising - I could set up a Chronosync to mirror the new nvme boot external to the internal - as a backup. To really do it right though I think I also need to start with a clean install for whatever boot drive it's going to be. Then just add my programs back in as I use them - and weed out the stuff I've had for years and no longer touch.

Now that Ebay is charging tax and PayPal went up to 4.5% fees - Apple refurb is looking good - I've already been there looking around. Apple has also changed the policies on adding in Applecare - much more strict and the time window is no longer open during the entire factory warranty period - it's only 60 days now - nasty. They also have a sneaky trick - up-selling to Applecare+ which adds accidental damage coverage over standard Applecare. Total nonsense for a 27" iMac however. They don't even list Applecare (no accidental coverage) as an option - but last I checked it was still available.

EDIT - decided to give it a shot. Rather than assemble my own I'm considering the Sabrent TLC/1TB Thunderbolt 3 SB-XTRM-1TB ($270) - I can install Catalina or Big Sur on it and build from than point. As a boot drive though is it going to be a victim of sleep? I leave my Mac on 24/7 - suppose if it boots fast I can change than habit.

 

[pmiles]

You can replace your internal Fusion drive with a true SSD. The Fusion drive was never a true solution, hence it's quick demise from the market. Plus it is the non-platter half of the drive that is likely to fail first, so getting rid of the Fusion drive sooner rather than later is somewhat prudent. Running an external SSD is likely to be on par cost-wise with an internal replacement. Ultimately you should have some sort of external storage to keep the stuff that you aren't actively using stored on as an All-in-One has limited storage capacity for a reason... space.

One thing you might consider is doing a complete clean install of your system. Yep, erase your system drive and install the OS anew. Then reinstall your applications... yes reinstall, don't just clone it back to your drive (cloning brings with it all the crap that it turned into over time... which is what you are trying to avoid bringing back). It should be as fast as it was the moment you purchased it, IF the Fusion drive isn't showing any wear and tear. APFS is not doing your drive any favors as it is.

Merely running a computer for years slows it down because it has collected a ton of knick-knacks along the way. It's funny, but buying a new computer gives a false narrative of what that machine will be like down the road... after you have stuffed it to the gills with junk. Any computer that has been recently configured will ALWAYS be faster than one that has been chugging away for a few years. True, faster hardware will always be faster than slower hardware... science... I know... but even faster hardware slows over time. Sometimes due to actual wear and tear, and sometimes due to mere clutter. Of course you can never discount the nefarious Apple introducing slow downs to older hardware via a seemingly beneficial system update. They are in the business of selling new hardware after all.

Try doing a clean install to your system. Yeah takes a little bit of time (having to store files on an external drive, making sure you have the original installation discs for your apps (if they are indeed that old), redownloading apps, saving preference files, reconfiguring your mail apps once again. It's like you just got a new computer delivered... all that stuff you do to initially set it up. In the end, performance almost always improves 10 fold. I do this every so often with my system. Always before a OS upgrade (which these days are pretty much nil... I too am at Mojave). I understand the need to stay in the past... I run the older Adobe CS apps as well... before the whole leased software craze took hold. Plus I also have bootcamp.

Consider it as your first option, followed by replacing your internal drive as number two, unless buying a refurb is really a big boost over what you have now. Booting from an external can work, but it comes with it's own caveats. In essence you're doing the same thing as replacing the internal drive, only not opening up the case to do it.

Check out the install videos here for replacing internal drives on iMacs. May not be as intimidating as you think. Don't need to purchase from this place, but it's a good place to see how it's done.

OWC Install Videos

OWC's detailed step-by-step installation videos show you how to install memory, hard drives, and optical drives in your mac! You can also learn how to install a new battery in your iPod, or bring your old PowerMac up to speed with a processor accelerator!

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[golfgirlgolf]

You can replace your internal Fusion drive with a true SSD.

Thanks - as I noted above - The above iMac has Applecare for another year so I don't want to crack the case and put in an SSD (warranty voided)

I did note the plan for doing clean install too. And, yes I have 6+ external drives with about 30TB of backups and offline storage. Bordering on running RAID or JBOD - but multiple externals are cheaper and Chronosync is a really good program.

I've looked at the iMac teardown videos before - it's a bit scary especially on a newer/expensive machine - meanwhile the resale value on my machine isn't far off from buying a new/refurb... making that a tempting option!

 

[Realityck]

You can replace your internal Fusion drive with a true SSD. The Fusion drive was never a true solution, hence it's quick demise from the market. Plus it is the non-platter half of the drive that is likely to fail first, so getting rid of the Fusion drive sooner rather than later is somewhat prudent. Running an external SSD is likely to be on par cost-wise with an internal replacement. Ultimately you should have some sort of external storage to keep the stuff that you aren't actively using stored on as an All-in-One has limited storage capacity for a reason... space.

How times change from 2012 when the fusion was first introduced. It was a lot more economical solution for several years then the expensive SSD option that Apple offered with were SATA 3 for a few years. The 2020 iMac 27" models finally went to all SSD. So no it wasn't necessary a quick demise from the marketplace. But Apple also made it terribly inconvenient to exchange/install the PCIe SSD as its on the logic board on the side not visible. So that take apart isn't as easy a task to perform as swap the SATA 3 Fusion with a SATA 3 SSD like so many did.

 

[golfgirlgolf]

An interesting alternative just popped up in my email - on sale - 2020 i7 3.8GHz 512GB SSD 5500XT for $1899 @ Costco. If it were 1TB I'd do it for sure- but just don't think 512GB is going to be enough - though I am cleaning house and preparing to change most file locations to externals.

 

[Realityck]

An interesting alternative just popped up in my email - on sale - 2020 i7 3.8GHz 512GB SSD 5500XT for $1899 @ Costco. If it were 1TB I'd do it for sure- but just don't think 512GB is going to be enough - though I am cleaning house and preparing to change most file locations to externals.

Nice price normally $2299 new, EDU is still $2099. But even the 1TB variation of same model you want refurbished is $2119. see Refurbished 27-inch iMac 3.8GHz 8-core Intel Core i7 with Retina 5K display

But at that price you could get a Thunderbolt 3 external enclosure with a 1 or 2 TB WD Black SN750 NVMe. Just some thoughts.

 

[wilberforce]

This seems like a perfect opportunity to take advantage of Apple's 14-day return period. The 14-day return period is exactly for this purpose: so you can try out a device and see if it meets your needs and you like it, guilt-free (not just because there is something wrong with it). Apple actually encourages you to do so. The 14-day return period also applies for Apple's refurb store.
This is why I almost always buy directly from Apple, and not from B&H, eBay, Best Buy, Verizon, Amazon, etc., even though the Apple store prices are a bit more.
btw, I also do Photoshop, and am pretty happy with my 2020 i7 5500XT 2TB iMac. But I also was pretty happy with my 2014 i7 1TB iMac (except it was not as color-accurate and had less gamut). The key is a 1TB+ SSD (which cost me quite a lot in 2014). Remember also, the larger the SSD, the faster it is. I would not get less than 1TB SSD, personally.
That being said, with the Apple Silicon version on the horizon, it is a difficult decision.

btw, my boot time on 2020 iMac is 30 seconds. Boot time on my 2014 iMac was in the same ballpark. Originally was only about 15 seconds, but seems to gradually get longer.

 

[tpfang56]

Dang… that is an impressive machine massively held back by an outdated hard drive. I’ve been there. My iMac is a 2017” base model 1TB fusion drive with 16gb of RAM. At the time of purchasing, I didn’t really understand the difference between HDDs and SSDs and wanted to pay as little as possible for as much storage possible. One of my biggest regrets was also not opting for a retina screen. Past me really had no idea 😔.

Anyway, I managed to successfully upgrade with an external SSD, and it basically runs like new. I bought a sabrent thunderbolt 3 enclosure ($80) + an older gen 3 sabrent 1tb SSD ($120) + a thunderbolt / usb 4 cable ($25), and used Carbon Copy Cloner’s free trial period to copy my HD as a bootable drive onto the SSD. My OS was still on Mojave too, so the process was incredibly easy. You could also do a clean install like someone else suggested.

If I were to do it again, I wouldn’t get a sabrent SSD. They promised ~3000 mb/s read/write speed, but the actual averages are around ~1400 read/write. Check this website before you purchase. Ofc don’t get me wrong, 1400 is still night and day compared to the 50 avg read/write I was getting before, but if I was gonna upgrade, I might as well have splurged a little more for something closer to the internal SSD speeds.

For me, it was 100% worth the $250 purchase, and my iMac feels like a new machine and should be good for the next few years.

 

[golfgirlgolf]

Nice price normally $2299 new, EDU is still $2099. But even the 1TB variation of same model you want refurbished is $2119. see Refurbished 27-inch iMac 3.8GHz 8-core Intel Core i7 with Retina 5K display

But at that price you could get a Thunderbolt 3 external enclosure with a 1 or 2 TB WD Black SN750 NVMe. Just some thoughts.

That's the exact model I've been looking at in Apple Refurbs. But then add approx $325 for sales tax and Applecare!
Meanwhile wilberforce has a good point about the end of Intel iMacs, and waiting for the nextgen. Probably best to just extend the one I have and switch later/sooner than going for one more generation of Intel machine.

Back to looking at the TB3 enclosures now! haha They range from $20 - $300. 1TB WD Black SN750 is probably the one to do. I can get by with 1TB in programs and active data. 512 would really be pushing it.

 

[haddy]

That's the exact model I've been looking at in Apple Refurbs. But then add approx $325 for sales tax and Applecare!
Meanwhile wilberforce has a good point about the end of Intel iMacs, and waiting for the nextgen. Probably best to just extend the one I have and switch later/sooner than going for one more generation of Intel machine.

Back to looking at the TB3 enclosures now! haha They range from $20 - $100. 1TB WD Black SN750 is probably the one to do. I can get by with 1TB in programs and active data. 512 would really be pushing it.

Well I have a 2020 27" iMac maxed out... nano screen etc. Has a 2TB internal SSD.
But I use a 980 EVO Pro (2TB) in a ORICO T3 enclosure attached to one of the T3 ports as my startup disk and it works great using 10.14.7 OS.
This is because in my previous iMac 2017 I had 2 internal SSDs fail a year apart. So, I'm trying to avoid that happening on this 2020 iMac.

 

[Realityck]

That's the exact model I've been looking at in Apple Refurbs. But then add approx $325 for sales tax and Applecare!
Meanwhile wilberforce has a good point about the end of Intel iMacs, and waiting for the nextgen. Probably best to just extend the one I have and switch later/sooner than going for one more generation of Intel machine.

Back to looking at the TB3 enclosures now! haha They range from $20 - $300. 1TB WD Black SN750 is probably the one to do. I can get by with 1TB in programs and active data. 512 would really be pushing it.

For your consideration.

• DIY easy: uses any NVMe M.2 2280 SSD available today and in the future

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[Realityck]

Also recommended, a bit better caching is Samsung 970 EVO PLUS
There are of course more expensive enclosures that can double the NVme R/W speeds. this is a example but it costs double from OWC.

OWC Envoy Pro FX: Thunderbolt 4 External SSD Drive

Compatible with Thunderbolt and USB4 computers and devices, the OWC Envoy Pro FX delivers up to 2800MB/s speeds for ultra-fast external SSD storage.

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Of interest is this site

UserBenchmark: Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVMe PCIe M.2 vs WD Black SN750 (2019)

 

[golfgirlgolf]

For your consideration.

Thanks - looking at enclosures has been giving me a headache... there are just so many. the OWC looks interesting - but no USB fallback AFAIK.

Maybe just buying a pre-built enclosure+SSD isn't that far off is costs afterall...

 

[jz0309]

check into a Samsung T7 or Sandisk Extreme, I got a SD 2TB on Prime day for less than $225, read/write ~ 950MBps connected to the USB C port ... I keep all my photos on there, though I do have a 1TB internal SSD for LR index/previews as well as PS scratch ...

 

[Realityck]

Samsung T7 is another way to go for sure. (currently not on sale) I have seen external enclosures supporting both USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 (dual interfaces-separate ports) but haven't read anyone here that has used them.

 

[golfgirlgolf]

Well the least complicated DIY seems to be the OWC enclosure so I got one. Now on to buying the SSD - the 1TB WD 750 and Samsung 970 aren't far off in price (on Amazon - no Ebay - for warranty) - the Samsung seems to edge out the WD just a bit. It's not a lot of money at stake - I just wanted to get the configuration right... Should be a worthwhile endeavor! Thanks for all the help - you've all been excellent.

 

[golfgirlgolf]

Some results - LH Speed Test with Samsung 970 Evo+ while booted in Catalina clean install
- RH Speed Test stock 2tb Fusion drive while booted in Mojave.
Interesting the read times actually seem slower. I haven't done much yet but it's much snappier!