Kentsfield (Quad-core Intel) by end of 2006?

[Dr.Gargoyle]

It appears I will be living in a cardboard box under a bridge sooner than I expected. All these juicy new Apples will put me in the poor house!

I was planing to get a MacPro rev. B, but now I might wait for Clovertown. Eight cores is....a LOT.

 

[Manic Mouse]

Powerbook G5 tomorrow!!! LOL ok, ok.. before someone shoots me .....

I would really like a mid range mac, and kentsfield would be ideal! Everyone is worried about such a machine taking away sales from either the Mac Pro or the imac, but I still say apple should just be smart enough and feature it so that people either have to to imac, mac extreme or mac pro. 2 pci express slots, single optical drive, smaller amount of total memory, instead of having people have to go for the mac pro why cant apple make the mac pro the real high end workstation and have something smaller be a the mainstream workstation?

The margins on a mid-mac should be better than the iMac since it's using standard (and therefore cheap) desktop components. So any mid-mac sales in preference to the iMac would probably make Apple more money anyway.

 

[DrFrankTM]

The margins on a mid-mac should be better than the iMac since it's using standard (and therefore cheap) desktop components. So any mid-mac sales in preference to the iMac would probably make Apple more money anyway.

The competition is fierce in that market segment though. The iMac or Mini form factors don't have quite as much competition, so price comparisons always leave a lot out of the picture. With a mid-range tower, the comparisons would be much more direct. Apple seems to be shaking its "expensive toy" image, but I wonder if they could "pull a Mac Pro" in the mid-range as well.

 

[jesteraver]

It seems Apple could just wait for Clovertown...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/11/intel_clovertown/

which appears to be 2 Woodcrests on one processor. Could we see 8-Core Mac Pros' in 2007?

arn

More than likely. It will come with a price probably.

 

[Multimedia]

I Am A Clovertown Mac Customer

It seems Apple could just wait for Clovertown...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/11/intel_clovertown/

which appears to be 2 Woodcrests on one processor. Could we see 8-Core Mac Pros' in 2007?

arn

This is my expectation. I am one customer who needs 8 cores for sure. I also expect to need 16 when they become available. Clovertown is not expected to be any longer than Kentsfield.

I think Apple has got to be redesigning the iMac to accomidate Kentsfield then Tigerton into the iMac. Only other place for it is inside a new kind of Mac mini or a new class of Macs yet to be revealed - a sort of Mac Pro Jr.

I was planing to get a MacPro rev. B, but now I might wait for Cloverton. Eight cores is....a LOT.

For certain types of work, 8 cores is not a lot and in fact still not enough - believe it or not.

 

[RichP]

Clovertown +Adobe CS3 + Leopard = My credit card go boom!

Coming spring 2007...


Seriously, I am suprised these chips are pin-compatible with the Conroe, which is pin compatible with some P4s. Seems like the next REAL boost in intel performance will be the summer of 2007, when the next-gen chipsets and such are released. (as previously posted)

 

[bryanc]

It seems clear from the fact that Apple put the first of (what are likely limited supplies of) the merom CPUs into the iMac, rather than the much-anticipated MBPs, that the iMac enclosure simply can't dissipate heat quickly enough to run the higher TDP CPUs like Conroe without unacceptable compromises (i.e. loud fans).

So I predict these new, mid-to-high performance CPUs will either not be used by Apple (bad move, IMO) or they will appear in a new product. The long awaited xMac. The problem that Apple needs to chart a course around with this product is that it can't be so powerful that it eats up sales of the MacPro (that's easy, make it cheap), and it can't be a direct competitor with either the iMac or the mini (shouldn't be too hard, drop the price on the mini another $100, making it a cheap, 'Value-priced' system with very limited upgrade potential, and continue to produce the iMac as a beautifully designed AIO system for the office, lab, etc.). I do think the xMac will cannibalize iMac sales to some degree, but it should be manageable.

The problem with the xMac as a product for Apple is two fold. Firstly, it has to be agressively priced, because, of all the Macs, it's the one that will be facing the most head-to-head competition from other vendors, and it will have the fewest Apple-only features to justify significant price differences. Secondly, it will have to be easily expandable to be competitive, and consequently, it will suffer from 3rd-party hardware and software quality issues.

To deal with these issues, I think Apple needs to pull a rabbit out of it's hat WRT the industrial design of the xMac, making it an elegant, easy-to-work with, highly prized piece of technology that people won't mind paying a little extra for. And they need to be very explicit about using only 'Apple-certified' components or the warranty is void. This won't prevent people from using every standard PC widget under the sun, but it will give Apple an out when some of these systems fail.

Cheers

 

[SPUY767]

The iMac is huge (relatively speaking), are you telling me such a huge enclosure won't be able to dissipitate an extra 30W or so? It is only around 30W more!

Like it or not Apple will have to somehow fit the Kentsfield into their lineup, cos their advertising campaigns are going to look very lame when Dell simply cops their "switch" campaign style and come out with a "PC" with 4 heads and a "Mac" with only 2.

When Kentfield replaces Conroes and every $999 Dell ships with quad core, it is quite hard to justify buying a dual (in Apple's case, a $2000+ quad)

The current 900$ dells don't even come with a Core based processor, so I doubt that a "Core-Quadro" is in the future for any 900$ dell. Bottom line will always be, most of the time, you get exactly what you pay for.

 

[zwida]

It appears I will be living in a cardboard box under a bridge sooner than I expected. All these juicy new Apples will put me in the poor house!

I fear there will be quite a few of us in the same boat.

Hard for me to justify (to my wife) a new machine every six months, no matter how much more productive it will make me. I'll have to start working on my reasons...

 

[Multimedia]

Kentsfield Will Go Into A New iMac Redesign

The iMacs will NEVER see Kentsfields. Apple would have to have put Conroe in the new iMacs for that even to be a remote possibility. Even if they had I would still say it would never get Kentsfields.

I mean people are saying that Conroe is too hot for the iMac as it is (I don't think they are) but Kentsfield is two Conroe dies on one package. Meaning almost double the power consumption and heat generation.

You appear to have no imagination. Kentsfield Will Go Into A New iMac Redesign. Have you not seen this mock-up yet? There are options in design that can make the iMac much cooler even with more heat producing elements inside.

The iMac is huge (relatively speaking), are you telling me such a huge enclosure won't be able to dissipitate an extra 30W or so? It is only around 30W more!

Like it or not Apple will have to somehow fit the Kentsfield into their lineup, cos their advertising campaigns are going to look very lame when Dell simply cops their "switch" campaign style and come out with a "PC" with 4 heads and a "Mac" with only 2.

When Kentfield replaces Conroes and every $999 Dell ships with quad core, it is quite hard to justify buying a dual (in Apple's case, a $2000+ quad)

Exactly generik. Bravo.

I don't buy the notion that the iMac will continue to look like it has for these past two years. The G4 iMac design lasted 2.66 years. We are at the 2 year point of the current design. Why does everyone think the iMac is going to look like it does now in a year? I will be shocked if it does and not surprised at all when it's design changes radically to accomidate more heat from the likes of Kentsfield and Tigerton.

 

[nospleen]

It seems the people who were mad about the intel switch are getting quieter and quieter...

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

For certain types of work, 8 cores is not a lot and in fact still not enough - believe it or not.

My point as just that if intel doubles the number of cores every 6th month, I believe that lifespan of a Mac is going to be substantially shorter. I doubt that the people who just bought a new MacPro realized that their computer would be as fast as an "entry level" computer within a year. Old Macs, like my own MDD, will be deemed to live in a time-bubble with now means of interacting with newer computers.
Things have certainly changed after the PPC ->x86 transition.

 

[nospleen]

My point as just that if intel doubles the number of cores every 6th month, I believe that lifespan of a Mac is going to be substantially shorter. I doubt that the people who just bought a new MacPro realized that their computer would be as fast as an "entry level" computer within a year. Old Macs, like my own MDD, will be deemed to live in a time-bubble with now means of interacting with newer computers.
Things have certainly changed after the PPC ->x86 transition.

I am not quite following you. It is not as if your mac will slow down because the new one has more cores? Or, are you saying the requirements to run the software will increase at a faster rate because the hardware is improving so rapidly, thus dating your mac prematurely?

 

[spicyapple]

Things have certainly changed after the PPC ->x86 transition.

Mac resale value will go down the drain, but that's great if you're the buyer not the seller. It's still much more exciting to be getting these furious CPU upgrades.

 

[splintah]

quad core macbook pro anyone ?

 

[aegisdesign]

I mean people are saying that Conroe is too hot for the iMac as it is (I don't think they are) but Kentsfield is two Conroe dies on one package. Meaning almost double the power consumption and heat generation.

The thermal requirements for Yonah and Merom are 35W. Conroe is 65W. The old G5 at 2Ghz was 39W so roughly the same as Yonah/Merom although the power management wasn't as good with it not being a laptop chip.

The Core 2 Extreme version of Conroe has a 75W rating. Kentsfield is being introduced as a Core 2 Extreme chip first so I'd guess it also has a 75W rating.

Chances of seeing a Conroe Quad in an iMac - non-existent.

 

[aegisdesign]

My point as just that if intel doubles the number of cores every 6th month, I believe that lifespan of a Mac is going to be substantially shorter. I doubt that the people who just bought a new MacPro realized that their computer would be as fast as an "entry level" computer within a year. Old Macs, like my own MDD, will be deemed to live in a time-bubble with now means of interacting with newer computers.
Things have certainly changed after the PPC ->x86 transition.

Software will also have to keep up and unless your software becomes massively multithreaded and what you're doing can actually be multi threaded there's no real advantage to multi-core CPUs.

This is already a problem with Quicktime in that it doesn't scale past 2 cores. You'll find half of your computer under utilised for instance when transcoding video in Quicktime.

 

[Multimedia]

Mobile Quad Core Not For At Least Two More Years

quad core macbook pro anyone ?

Probably not for two more years. It's not even mentioned in any of the published Intel roadmaps yet.

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

I am not quite following you. It is not as if your mac will slow down because the new one has more cores? Or, are you saying the requirements to run the software will increase at a faster rate because the hardware is improving so rapidly, thus dating your mac prematurely?

My computers will of course not be slower. But the apps, on the other hand, will become more and more demanding. For example, I cant run Aperture on my MDD (2*1.25/2GB RAM/128MB VRAM). Hell, I cant even run Civ IV on it...lol
I think this fact will be more and more emphasized as the "core-war" replaces the "GHz war".

 

[Multimedia]

Simultaneous Transcodeing Of Video Does Work Multiple Cores Above Two

Software will also have to keep up and unless your software becomes massively multithreaded and what you're doing can actually be multi threaded there's no real advantage to multi-core CPUs.

This is already a problem with Quicktime in that it doesn't scale past 2 cores. You'll find half of your computer under utilised for instance when transcoding video in Quicktime.

Not if you transcode multiple files simultaneously - which is what I do with multiple instances of Toast 7 and Handbrake..

Plus that will probably be fixed in QuickTime 8 which is likely to come with Leopard.

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Software will also have to keep up and unless your software becomes massively multithreaded and what you're doing can actually be multi threaded there's no real advantage to multi-core CPUs

I am quite sure that the software writers will take full advantage of the current hardware.
Isnt it normally so, that apps push the evolution of the hardware?

 

[nospleen]

My computers will of course not be slower. But the apps, on the other hand, will become more and more demanding. For example, I cant run Aperture on my MDD (2*1.25/2GB RAM/128MB VRAM). Hell, I cant even run Civ IV on it...lol
I think this fact will be more and more emphasized as the "core-war" replaces the "GHz war".

Gotcha! That would get old quick, at least the old apps would work. It is kind of cool now that a G3 can still run Tiger. Oh well, can't have everything!

 

[shawmanus]

Couple of things

Kentsfield is not replacing conroe. Its only replacing conroe xe. Intel does not see mainstream quad core for atleast 2 years when s/w gets multithreaded. So Kentsfield should atleast cost $999 and would be seen in gaming platforms and workstations.

Tigerton is new xeon mp solution to replace netburst based tulsa. It is definately not pin compatible with kentsfield. Apple currently does not have any MP ( >= 4P solutions) in their portfolio. Maybe they would create one in their xserve portfolio. Tigerton would be extremely expensive as well.

iMac currently have laptop processors having around ~30w TDP. Kentsfield will have 110w tdp and I dont see Apple redesigning iMac to accomodate it. Maybe once intel has a native quad core on 45nm with around 60w TDP we will see a quad core in iMac.

Apple should release a "headless tower" with conroe/kentsfield. That should be significantly cheaper than Macpro.

 

[aegisdesign]

I am quite sure that the software writers will take full advantage of the current hardware.
Isnt it normally so, that apps push the evolution of the hardware?

Some applications just can't be multithreaded and writing reliable multi threaded applications is damned hard still.

Back in the early 90s I was using ICL DAPs which had a grid of 1024 CPUs. You could fly through a Mandlebrot set in realtime or analyse weather patterns quicker than anything else at the time short of a couple of Crays. A Mac SE/30 however was quicker at handling files and we used to use that to handle the normal stuff.

 

[fblack]

There's going to be a problem when PC manufacturers get a hold of this if Apple doesn't realease a mid-tower to compete. Conroes are faster than the Meroms in the iMac as it is, but with quad cores they'll wipe the floor with them at multi-tasking.

Surely Conroe needs to go somewhere in Apple's lineup? Great value, fast and soon to be quad-core.

I would love to see a mid-tower with these in it and there seems to be some demand for a mini-macpro among forum contributers (based on what I've seen). However, with the release of the 24" imac it makes me wonder if we would ever see a mid range tower. The 24" imac provides the increased power and improved GPU. Also if the GPU does turn out to be replaceable, it makes for a harder argument for mid-tower no? The price range does seem to fit well between the regular imacs and pros...