KGI Expects Intel to Be Exclusive Supplier of Modems in 2018 iPhones

[Aenean144]

I thought Qualcomm gets paid for its Intellectual Property no matter who actually manufactures the chip? So, maybe this will not be a big deal for Qualcomm after all?

Qualcomm wants: license fee = rate x MRSP of device
Apple wants: license fee = rate x MSRP of radio component

The rate is typically something like 1% to 5%. The MSRP of a device, like an iPhone X, is $1000. The MSRP of radio components is typically something like $30. That’s basically a factor of 10 lower in licensing fees and a rather huge loss for QC. Not only that, QC plays the “discount” game where if you use their CDMA chips, your total license fee and radio component costs are cheaper. You know, the thing they are being sued and fined for in basically all the markets in the world.

Obvious why both parties want their way. Apple shouldn’t have to pay more in licensing fees if they use a QC modem in a $350 iPhone SE versus a $1000 iPhone X. QC obviously will milk their CDMA patent lock in the USA until CDMA goes away. Why do you think Samsung ships QC chips in their phones in the USA while using Samsung radio chips in the ROTW?

 

[jdillings]

Intel modems are garbage. Fact, not opinion.

 

[0958400]

Yay, Meltdown 2028!

 

[mi7chy]

I really felt screwed when Apple switched to intel based modems for the 7/8/10.

I noticed a substantial performance loss in my area when I switched to the 7.

And they dumbed down the Qualcomm modem to make it on par with the intel.

Shame on you Apple.

Apple fixed it for you because now you don't have a choice.

 

[0388631]

Qualcomm causes way too many issues for OEMs. On the Android front, at least, their methods to quickly antiquate their own processors leave OEMs stranded with updates. Which is why aside from major flagships, phones don't get updates after about 2 years. They also make it tough for OEMs to import phones that use their own processors. Such as Samsung's Exynos.

. When Verizon finally moves from CDMA is when we the consumer will have better choice here in the States. That’s not expected until 2019/20. To me this is another uninformed report from KGI.

Agreed. Question: Are you referring to the intended shutdown of legacy networks and the eventual migration? I think 2022 is a realistic timeleine.

 

[avanpelt]

I mean no SIM card at all, like Apple tried to do awhile back.

You could just choose the carrier in settings.

That will probably be a no-go from many of the carriers. Remember, these carriers are the same ass-backwards companies that went out of their way to lock the Apple SIM to their network if it was activated on their network. I’m looking at you, AT&T.

 

[dampfnudel]

I mean no SIM card at all, like Apple tried to do awhile back.

You could just choose the carrier in settings.

You mean eSim. That’s probably what we’ll get eventually, one universal model with eSim in different colors & capacities. Go to the eSim activation screen, pick your country, carrier, activate and you’re all set. No need to fiddle around with a tiny physical SIM card anymore. When you travel out of country and your current plan doesn’t include international data roaming, set something up with one of the local wireless carriers. I know some carriers are resistant to this, but eventually they’ll have to.

 

[Apple_Robert]

In my opinion, it is too early to start speculating on rumors from the hidden MR staff member Ming-Chi Kuo.

 

[justperry]

You mean eSim. That’s probably what we’ll get eventually, one universal model with eSim in different colors & capacities. Go to the eSim activation screen, pick your country, carrier, activate and you’re all set. No need to fiddle around with a tiny physical SIM card anymore. When you travel out of country and your current plan doesn’t include international data roaming, set something up with one of the local wireless carriers. I know some carriers are resistant to this, but eventually they’ll have to.

Apple tried yet didn't succeed which is a shame.
It's a major inconvenience if you travel a lot.

Hopefully, one day, it will change.

 

[thejtray]

"Intel already announced the XMM 7560 chip that'll be available in phones in 2018, but now it's said it's got gigabit LTE working in prototypes today. The 7560 also adds support for network technology called CDMA that, while older, is still important for Verizon customers."

https://www.cnet.com/news/intel-develops-communication-chips-for-your-next-phone/
[doublepost=1517770540][/doublepost]

The article points out that Intel is testing CDMA abilities in a chip set for 2018. It doesn't change the fact that they will need to license from Qualcomm. Further, the first Intel Based Chip in the iPhone 7 was a major issue with BlueTooth which I documented my issues here http://www.jtsblog.com/iphone-7-bluetooth-audio-stutter-problem/. I am not sold that Intel will be able to provide a "high" quality part if they are still testing it for CDMA. I think we all can agree that if you're selling a $1,000 device has subpar quality hardware is not the right move. IMO Intel Chips are subpar to Qualcomm and it makes continuing to use the iPhone concerning.

Nothing Qualcomm has done is malicious, what Apple is trying to do is find competition for the cellular radio chip and that is ending up being an issue for end users as Apple has done a complete 180 from the iPhone 6s, which was a true all world phone. This resulted in horrible experience for those wanting to have a SIM free Unlocked phone with the Apple Upgrade program.

 

[macsrcool1234]

"Intel already announced the XMM 7560 chip that'll be available in phones in 2018, but now it's said it's got gigabit LTE working in prototypes today. The 7560 also adds support for network technology called CDMA that, while older, is still important for Verizon customers."

https://www.cnet.com/news/intel-develops-communication-chips-for-your-next-phone/
[doublepost=1517770540][/doublepost]

"Monopolistic shares" is not the same thing as being a monopoly. If you have no competitors then you are a monopoly. Intel has competitors in each of their markets, thus they are not a monopoly. Qualcomm currently has no competitors in the USA for a CDMA-supported chip, thus they are a monopoly. That's about to change.

Yeah. Thats why I phrased it the way I did. Context clues.

 

[BootsWalking]

Nothing Qualcomm has done is malicious, what Apple is trying to do is find competition for the cellular radio chip and that is ending up being an issue for end users as Apple has done a complete 180 from the iPhone 6s, which was a true all world phone. This resulted in horrible experience for those wanting to have a SIM free Unlocked phone with the Apple Upgrade program.

The FTC would beg to differ:
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pre...mm-monopolizing-key-semiconductor-device-used

 

[JPack]

In my opinion, it is too early to start speculating on rumors from the hidden MR staff member Ming-Chi Kuo.

I doubt Kuo would be working for such a low paid company.

KGI is probably paying well into the 6-digit range to keep Kuo in Asia and avoid Bloomberg from poaching him.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Hopefully it’s better than this current garbage.

I love how the article states the modem supports GSM and CDMA (such legacy network technologies vs the full gamut lol (forcing the lookup of the PDF).

EDIT: I really dont' think this is the modem to be used. Skimmed over the PDF link and it's a "14nm processed chip/modem" ... that's a bit large by today's standards and even in early 2019 when the iphone model shipping this fall will still be used.

I just hope it's not just "better" but ...

More reliable (through years of daily operations,
More efficient: Power consumption for high LTE and voice rates/uses (Voice Channels and VoLTE),
Faster LTE and 5G channels ... Apple should bring the 5G modems that are software/firmware upgradable for supporting ALL bands in every model (gotta remember about roaming) ... this will be a HUGE headstart.
- also note Huwaei is giving Verizon networks yet being pushed back on handset sales in the USA with current administration.
[doublepost=1517782213][/doublepost]

I don’t know what to make of the feud with Qualcomm. I just know that for the past couple of years if I actually wanted to hear my callers clearly and they want to hear me clearly on a consistent basis, I had to make my voice calls on my Android phones, the best being my HTC 10 and now the honors go to my HTC-made Pixel 2. Honestly this may have been going on even longer, but I only discovered the superior call quality of my Android phones in that time frame because I was exclusively on iPhones until I decided to try a Note 7.

I don’t say that as an iPhone basher. My main phone number is on the sim I use in my iPhones, since iMessage is my main form of communication with teachers and fellow parents right now. So I very much like iPhones and just want iPhones to be much better for voice calling than they currently are. My husband says he gets better call clarity over AirPods but that’s not the solution I’m looking for.

FWIW, my Intel based 8 Plus and my former iPhone X are much improved over my Qualcomm based iPhone 7 Plus. But was that due to Apple handicapping the Qualcomm modem to match or be worse than the Intel modem? When I briefly had a Qualcomm based iPhone 8 Plus it oddly had much worse call issues than my current Intel based 8 Plus.

So YOU'RE the guy that keeps sending those DUPLICATE SMS messages from his Android phone! Grrrrr.

J/K.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I doubt Kuo would be working for such a low paid company.

KGI is probably paying well into the 6-digit range to keep Kuo in Asia and avoid Bloomberg from poaching him.

My reply was 'tongue and cheek.'

 

[Tech198]

"We expect Intel to be the exclusive supplier of baseband chip for 2H18 new iPhone models, while Qualcomm may not have a share of the orders at all."

of course not,... Why would Apple want to deal with a company they reckon cheated them?

Apple likes to play hop-scotch all the time between "the one to supply better" LTE.

When Apple is hit with a lawsuit from Intel as well, that will be another one out of the picture... Let's see who is left

 

[hoon2999]

They tried with Samsung and it didn’t work out

 

[Michael Goff]

As a person with an iPhone with an Intel Modem, please don’t.

 

[Aston441]

I don’t know what to make of the feud with Qualcomm. I just know that for the past couple of years if I actually wanted to hear my callers clearly and they want to hear me clearly on a consistent basis, I had to make my voice calls on my Android phones, the best being my HTC 10 and now the honors go to my HTC-made Pixel 2. Honestly this may have been going on even longer, but I only discovered the superior call quality of my Android phones in that time frame because I was exclusively on iPhones until I decided to try a Note 7.

I don’t say that as an iPhone basher. My main phone number is on the sim I use in my iPhones, since iMessage is my main form of communication with teachers and fellow parents right now. So I very much like iPhones and just want iPhones to be much better for voice calling than they currently are. My husband says he gets better call clarity over AirPods but that’s not the solution I’m looking for.

FWIW, my Intel based 8 Plus and my former iPhone X are much improved over my Qualcomm based iPhone 7 Plus. But was that due to Apple handicapping the Qualcomm modem to match or be worse than the Intel modem? When I briefly had a Qualcomm based iPhone 8 Plus it oddly had much worse call issues than my current Intel based 8 Plus.

Your husband is right. It is the MICROPHONE in Apple products that's always been terrible, and half the reason Siri is so awful. Airpods is the first Apple product to not have a 10 cent mic. I'd estimate it's at least a $5 mic. Good mics start around $30 and there's just no way Apple would give up that much $$$ since 99% of their customers are clueless about what goes into sound quality.

Apple singlehandedly destroyed High Fidelity sound on regular consumer level equipment, after decades of trying to get there. Sigh.

 

[Cole Slaw]

This is the right move by Apple as it might save them a dollar on the cost of producing an iPhone.
And that's the most important thing to Tim.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

If the Intel chip will work with all US carriers, maybe we can have sim free?.

Why would you want that?

Having a SIM makes it MUCH easier to switch to a new phone, just drop the SIM in and transfer the data, no need to call the carrier and tell them you have a different phone.

The SIM is a huge improvement from the bad old days.

 

[itguy06]

Yes, because it's not like Intel holds monopolistic shares in any part of the market. Yay for overpriced, insecure hardware in our phones!

Yeah. Apple needs to get away from Intel not move more to them.

 

[69650]

Apple should be developing their own components.

 

[thejtray]

Agreed. Question: Are you referring to the intended shutdown of legacy networks and the eventual migration? I think 2022 is a realistic timeleine.

I have read a few articles that notes the progression Verizon has made to move away from CDMA and each mentions Verizon has a goal of 2019. VoLTE has been the change that has prompted everything. You're right but it could be at any time.
[doublepost=1517803756][/doublepost]

The FTC would beg to differ:
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pre...mm-monopolizing-key-semiconductor-device-used

Referring more to hurt Apple. Not siding either way in this battle just stating that I would take a Qualcomm chip over Intel any day of the week and that Apple having two suppliers has resulted essentially more than 50% of iPhones not being truly "unlocked" phones, which is a clear misrepresentation of the term unlocked when referring to their iPhone Upgrade Program.

 

[5105973]

I really felt screwed when Apple switched to intel based modems for the 7/8/10.

I noticed a substantial performance loss in my area when I switched to the 7.

And they dumbed down the Qualcomm modem to make it on par with the intel.

Shame on you Apple.

When it came to the current generation, here is what happened to me: I had an Intel based AT&T iPhone X. Call quality surprised me by being good. Not great, but competent. I’m not used to even competent after my time on my 7 Plus. I loved my 7 Plus but it was a horrible mess of a phone. Same for my husband’s. Both 7 Pluses were Qualcomm unlocked models.

So I was pretty surprised that the modem I had always heard bad things about worked well for me (talking again about the Intel in the iPhone X).

Then I decided to trade my X back for an 8 Plus. I got an unlocked Qualcomm 8 Plus. I was back to poor call quality. The phone had a bad lightning port so I returned it and got an Intel based AT&T iPhone 8 Plus. Call quality is again competent. Not nearly as nice as I get on my Pixel 2, but it’s tolerable.

So, I can’t help but wonder why the AT&T Intel based iPhones I got were competent and the 7 Plus and 8 Plus unlocked Qualcomm models I had were poor performers on AT&T. Was it just luck of the draw or is something else going on with whatever Apple did to try and make the models from two different manufacturers perform “equally”? Or is there some issue with unlocked iPhones not being optimized for AT&T?