Kuo: Apple Testing 9-Inch Foldable Device, but Foldable iPhone Unlikely Until 2025 or Later

[falainber]

I will bite.

Yes, Samsung did pioneer the concept of the phablet, and what else have they revolutionised afterwards? The galaxy fold feels like the Edge display (an example of a design trend that never did catch on) more than the Note. It seems like this one example is constantly being held up to deflect any criticism that Samsung may well be on the wrong path there. It's like how in a test, Apple got 9 out of 10 questions right, and they are being roasted for getting that one question right. Whereas Samsung got 9 out of 10 questions wrong, and everyone is cheering that Samsung at least got one question correct.

This is precisely what is happening here. Whatever ridiculous concept Samsung is putting forth, people will dig out the old Galaxy Note incident and go "Aha, Samsung got it right once upon a time, they just might get it right again", and it often feels like tech journalists are also mindful of this and it affects their willingness to criticise Samsung products in any objective light.

There is like practically no bar for Samsung to clear here, and the ridiculous grading of Apple on a curve could not be any more blatant here. I said this when Samsung first unveiled the Galaxy Fold back in 2019, and this is still the hill I am willing to die on. Samsung’s vision is way off, they are placing the wrong bets in my view (by choosing to prioritise folding phones over wearables) and it’s going to come back to hurt them in the next couple of years.

Samsung has no ecosystem to speak of (which in turn hampers their ability to offer cohesive experiences like getting developers to support dual screens). I personally feel that they peaked right before Apple unveiled larger iPhones (which is probably why everyone keeps harping on how Samsung was the one to popularise larger phones, because there's nothing else to boast about), and I just don't see any coherent vision of the future from their keynotes.

This isn't just about me not having to buy a product which I don't think is for me. The fold is simply a flawed design. It's as simple as that.

Afterwards Samsung revolutionized a lot of things. Here are a few examples:

• wireless charging
• under screen fingerprint sensors
• high MP camera sensors
• telescopic camera lenses
• variable refresh rate LTPO phone screens

Apple is slowly adopting most of these technologies usually with multi year delay.

 

[ninethirty]

Just because you say something multiple times, doesn’t make it factual. Unless your a design engineer that works direct under Apple, then you couldn’t possibly know the tangible benefits that they may capitalize on the weaknesses from other foldable devices, given Apple’s likely been studying to create a user experience that’s practical, but without the inherent flaws.

Why don’t we just wait to see what happens, versus making insinuations.

You're right, me saying it doesn't make it factual, but it's factual and that's why I say it.

I'll say it again. Foldable phone are a solution in search of a problem.

 

[d686546s]

You're right, me saying it doesn't make it factual, but it's factual and that's why I say it.

I'll say it again. Foldable phone are a solution in search of a problem.

That's not a fact, that's an opinion. Maybe one that will turn out to be right on the money, but an opinion nonetheless.

I have no idea what will happen, but foldables right now remind me a lot of touchscreen smartphones in the early to mid 00s. The tech wasn't quite there yet and the software hadn't quite figured out how to take advantage of more space and more flexible input. The "problems" modern smartphones solve -- browsing the web, reading emails, listening to music and watching content on the go among others -- many people found ridiculous. The internet is full of people who insisted that no one ever would want to watch a show on a phone when they had a perfectly good TV at home.

The proposition for foldables, or any solution really that offers more flexible screen real estate, to me is even more obvious to me than the smartphone was around 2005-2007. A compact device for texting, messaging and music that folds out into a tablet to read books, browse the web and do productivity stuff like calendar/email etc I think would sell itself f it's done well, has good software support and is reasonably priced.

Those are all questions of implementation. Maybe the tech will never get there, who knows, but frankly I think to deny that there's a genuine use case for a foldable/rollable/whatever phone is shortsighted. Give it time.

 

[Jim Lahey]

The main issue is always going to be display hardness. Unless we discover some sort of alien technology, it's not likely we're ever going to be able to cheat material properties. You just can't make something that's glass hard and simultaneously flexible to the point it will fold in on itself without shattering. The foldable Samsung screens can be scratched with a finger nail, despite purporting to be glass.

I wouldn't mind betting that true foldable glass is one of those things that is always "five years away." As Mr. Mark Watney famously said in The Martian, maybe someone will "science the sh*t out of this" but I don't see it happening any time soon, and even if it does, I still don't want one because it will always be twice as thick and not far off twice as heavy as any non-folding counterpart. My iPhone 12 Pro is heavy enough as it is.

 

[KevinN206]

You're right, me saying it doesn't make it factual, but it's factual and that's why I say it.

I'll say it again. Foldable phone are a solution in search of a problem.

Actually that's an opinion, not a fact. My opinion is that foldable phones or phones that can change shape to have a larger screen will be another form factor in the line up of slab phones. It may take another 5+ years but the technology will eventually mature enough that you can have a normal slab phone unfolded to have a massive internal display.

Samsung Fold 3, Huawei Mate X2, and Oppo Find N are refining with each iteration. I feel very confident that Apple will have a foldable within the next 5 to 10 years, and it will be killer.

 

[OliOliOliOli]

But people on here told me that Apple would never copy Samsung

They don’t copy Samsung… they just come when the tech is good… many people stay on Apple use to be the first to show products to the world… and I’m afraid to say that time is over as so many companies are billionaires to create new things to be the first one to just say “ we was the first and before Apple “ .

All those companies are now checking and creating new tech, when before just few companies had the possibility to do it!

 

[KevinN206]

The main issue is always going to be display hardness. Unless we discover some sort of alien technology, it's not likely we're ever going to be able to cheat material properties. You just can't make something that's glass hard and simultaneously flexible to the point it will fold in on itself without shattering. The foldable Samsung screens can be scratched with a finger nail, despite purporting to be glass.

I wouldn't mind betting that true foldable glass is one of those things that is always "five years away." As Mr. Mark Watney famously said in The Martian, maybe someone will "science the sh*t out of this" but I don't see it happening any time soon, and even if it does, I still don't want one because it will always be twice as thick and not far off twice as heavy as any non-folding counterpart. My iPhone 12 Pro is heavy enough as it is.

The Samsung Fold 3 has ultra-thin glass for the OLED display but still has PET layer on the top to protect it. The finger nail is biting into the plastic layer. In my opinion, I feel it will get there where PET won't be needed. Btw the Samsung Fold 3 is only 13% heavier than the iPhone 13 Pro Max (240 vs. 271 grams) but it's thickest point when folded is in fact 2X. Regardless how this turns out, the slab phone will likely remain and the foldable becomes another option for those who see values for their use cases.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I would love a foldable that has a screen on the outside that can be used for quickly viewing and replying to messages (dictation button would be ideal) or even/also as a small view finder for the camera all without opening it.

Nearly all of my quick check, pull out of pocket and glance, interactions with my phone could be accomplished on a small dedicated screen on the outside of the fold

 

[ninethirty]

That's not a fact, that's an opinion. Maybe one that will turn out to be right on the money, but an opinion nonetheless.

I have no idea what will happen, but foldables right now remind me a lot of touchscreen smartphones in the early to mid 00s. The tech wasn't quite there yet and the software hadn't quite figured out how to take advantage of more space and more flexible input. The "problems" modern smartphones solve -- browsing the web, reading emails, listening to music and watching content on the go among others -- many people found ridiculous. The internet is full of people who insisted that no one ever would want to watch a show on a phone when they had a perfectly good TV at home.

The proposition for foldables, or any solution really that offers more flexible screen real estate, to me is even more obvious to me than the smartphone was around 2005-2007. A compact device for texting, messaging and music that folds out into a tablet to read books, browse the web and do productivity stuff like calendar/email etc I think would sell itself f it's done well, has good software support and is reasonably priced.

Those are all questions of implementation. Maybe the tech will never get there, who knows, but frankly I think to deny that there's a genuine use case for a foldable/rollable/whatever phone is shortsighted. Give it time.

No, it's a fact. Foldable phones don't solve any actual problems.

 

[bobcomer]

Does anyone really want or need a folding phone? The UX is just terrible, unless they add another screen to the other side for quick checks. Having to unfold a large phone to reply to a text or a email is rather cumbersome

I want one, but I don't need a foldable iPhone, Samsung has that covered. (I have a Galaxy Flip3) And yes, I need at least one folding phone. It fits better in my pocket, especially with shorts.

 

[bobcomer]

I'll buy it, and I want a Flip iphone too.

 

[bobcomer]

The fold device is not feasible for a simple reason that they are priced so high you can buy an phone and a tablet both instead.

My Galaxy Flip3 wasn't any more expensive than an iPhone Pro, and with a bigger screen no less.

 

[bobcomer]

Ok, my big question is “Why does anyone want one of these?” The tech is cool, but now I have a thick device in my pocket instead of a long device. I just don’t get it. Sorry, I came from the flip phone age and do not want to go back. What am I missing?

You are discounting what others may see as value. Fitting in my pocket without falling out like my last iPhone pro is a good thing, and it's not enough thicker to make a difference in your pocket, unlike a longer phone. That's exactly why I go the Flip3.

 

[drumcat]

Another Kuo throwaway remark that won't be checked.

 

[44267547]

Another Kuo throwaway remark that won't be checked.

‘Checked’ for what? He made a prediction, just like he always does. What do you want him to do, provide some type of evidentiary support for his statements? He’s the most accurate analyst on this website, let alone in the ‘Apple world of tech’.

I mean, if that’s your mindset, then why don’t we just throw every other analyst prediction that should be ‘checked’.

It amazes me how many people seemingly don’t understand, this is a rumors site. Nothing here has to be factually posted as an article in order for it to be discussed for a future product.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I knew Kuo's original timeframe was not even close to reality. It is much better to disregard what the analysts say (who are guessing just like others here) and wait for reality to come to fruition. Debating over things that haven't come to fruition outside of rumor land is a waste of time.

 

[KevinN206]

They don’t copy Samsung… they just come when the tech is good… many people stay on Apple use to be the first to show products to the world… and I’m afraid to say that time is over as so many companies are billionaires to create new things to be the first one to just say “ we was the first and before Apple “ .

All those companies are now checking and creating new tech, when before just few companies had the possibility to do it!

I think the idea is that only Samsung copies from Apple while Apple "borrow" or "refine" or "following trends".

No, it's a fact. Foldable phones don't solve any actual problems.

What problems do you think foldable phones are trying to solve? And how do you think it's a solution searching for a problem?

 

[Harvey Zoltan]

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple Glasses (or whatever they are called) make this whole I need a bigger screen on my mobile device redundant. Wearing the glasses connected to your phone will provide a virtual screen of whatever size when required. When a large screen isn't required you still have the phone in your pocket.

 

[Virinprew]

But people on here told me that Apple would never copy Samsung

For starter, I don’t care about foldable. But If I do care, I would look at who does it better. It’s like commenting “first” in a Youtube video. So what? Let’s talk the real experience of using it.

 

[Rafterman]

For starter, I don’t care about foldable. But If I do care, I would look at who does it better. It’s like commenting “first” in a Youtube video. So what? Let’s talk the real experience of using it.

Someone has to be first. Samsung may rush a new idea too often, but Apple is the opposite end of bad - they wait forever, then look like they are falling behind and boring. It seems people are never satisfied.

 

[Johns12]

IMO, Samsung is a tech and manufacturing company. The do both. The try to move their ideas of tech to the front, sometimes copying, sometimes not. But, I believe, they try to show other companies what's possibly so they may in the future, buy that tech from them. It's their business model and I think it works well for them.

Most all of us have no idea what it takes to do what all of these tech company's do. We just prattle on in ignorance and they just make money ?

 

[PC_tech]

You're right, me saying it doesn't make it factual, but it's factual and that's why I say it.

I'll say it again. Foldable phone are a solution in search of a problem.

It’s nothing but your opinion…..

 

[DFZD]

My Galaxy Flip3 wasn't any more expensive than an iPhone Pro, and with a bigger screen no less.

Well Flip 3 is a Flip device not a fold device. It doesn’t offer a tablet screen size in a smartphone size form.

 

[H2SO4]

Foldable phones are little more than a gimmick, like 3D tvs. Remember 3D tvs? They were being massively hyped - and nobody bought. How many 3D tvs do you see on the market now?

Not even Android folk are really all that excited about foldables. If they were, you'd see them everywhere.

Maybe instead of making foldable devices, Apple can focus on releasing iOS versions that don't require a zillion patches and updates to deliver the functionality promised at launch?

If it turned out to be a viable device that didn't have screen issues down the road, or significant increase in thickness/cost, I'd pick one over a non fold in a heartbeat. I suspect a lot of others would too.

The fact that Apple are looking into it should suggest to you that they think enough of us might spend the money too.

 

[Denzo]

You're right, me saying it doesn't make it factual, but it's factual and that's why I say it.

I'll say it again. Foldable phone are a solution in search of a problem.

Sorry buddy. For one, my 6.7' screen on Zflip3 fits in any pocket now with ease. Not to mention very light when unfolded. The 13PM feels like a brick in comparison. Despite folding, the screen is nicer also. Not too shabby.